[RESOLVED] Windows 98 SE - Steer Clear Of It

[Darren Wilson]

I have just tonight installed ( after formatting a perfectly working system ) Windows 98 SE ( Second Edition ) , I am now regretting it!!!!!!!!!! NONE of the new features work properly if at all, especially the one that I most wanted , the Internet Sharing.

When installed I cannot even conect form my ' server ' to the ISP, yet along connect over the network.

The only good thing about it is that it recognises the CPU ( PIII ) properly.

As I have an OEM version, Microsoft will not support me as they told me to go back to the supplier of the system, which I told them I ALREADY HAD AS I F***ing Well BUILT IT & Supplied all the parts myself. To this they responded " You should know how to set it up then!!!!! ' to which I replied ' If you supplied me the information BEFORE releasing the **** , then I would !!!! '. The operator then replied ' are you a registered OEM or System Builder ' to which I relied ' Yes to both but I still need the info on why it don't work!!!!! '

If Microsoft won't support the OEM's how the hell are we supposed to support the customers who insist on using this really unreliable bag of ****e??????

As for all the compatability there is nothing that is different to the Original OEM 98, ( Which I am going to reinstall back again )and the pre-configured IE5 that I spent 12 hours downloading the IEAK distribution for will now not allow me to install it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Microsoft are not gonna get any more of my money. If Windows 2000 is going to be like this then GOD HELP US because it is sure that Bill Gates can't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[mzcpu]

Thanks for the word of warning. I have had several customers inquiring about it and now I know better! Jeanne

[gnslngr]

I wish I knew how you folks were getting this already. I've been told Q3 this year before release, and late Q3 at that.
No I'm not an athorized anything to the evil empire, but even my contacts in Texas only have betas.

[ReBoot]

Hey Darren. Saw this post a couple days ago, so...I just had to try it. Here's the results:
New build PII 400 @ 400, 128 meg, 10 gigi HD, ASUS board. Nothing plugged in but the 2 meg PCI S3 video.
Had 3 "hard" restarts through the setup, forcing "recovery". 4 restarts through setup of hardware (don't know why, only 1 pci card plugged in). Finally got to the final reboot, and OS not found!!!
I pulled the HD, put it in my other machine as slave, worked Norton Util on it, and nothing wrong with HD. Boot sector in place.
Ok...I'll try reinstalling CD-ROM drivers with mscdex.exe in place, and reinstall winSE again...same scenario...3 hard restarts, only 3 soft restarts on hardware detect, and "no OS found".
Reformat, boot from CD, install old Win98, and 1 soft restart later on hardware detect, it runs perfectly.
Dashed off a nasty email to MS, with product serial# etc... I'll let you know what happens.

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Who needs a life, I have Internet!

[ellingtond]

For what it is worth, Office 2000 needs to be avoided like the plague also. . . it has more security holes than Stalag 13. Better yet, remember the stuff call agar that viri feed on in the laboratory? Let's just say they like Office 2000 better.

MS says that this creates opportunities for third party vendors to create security programs. Are you kidding me???

[slatt01]

I work for an OEM and Win98 SE is nothing but trouble.

A few of the problems I have had:

1) TX Pro boards will not shut down or warm boot.

2) Visual Basic 5 simply fails to work.

3) Internet sharing never installs properly, and then when sorted does not work.

There are many others but it has now been removed from our machines so I cannot report them properly.

All problems experienced from clean installs.

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Gary Slatter

[tirpider]

For What Its Worth......
I Am Running an AMD K6-2 450 on a FIC 503+
64mb RAM
1.7gb HD (slow fujitsu)
sb16 pnp Sound Card
Intergraph Rush Vid Card
ISA Modem Blaster (56k)

98se from A Fresh Install With no Probs..
did i do somthing wrong?

[kaagaard]

Hi!
I've installed W98SE on couple of dusins maschines, -uppgrades and fresh installs. No problems of any kind. Even Internet Sharing Works like dream,- much better/faster than wingate 3. My version identify itself as: 4.10.2222 A and opperates without a serial, and it is stolen!!

[Seeker]

i have upgrade Win98 SE from Win95b... the thing that dissappointed me was that the Internet Connection sharing program didn't work...
the ICS feature didn't detect my ethernet card and only displayed dial up adapter and Aol adapter... and what the hell is a client disk that it asks me for?? sorry for being soo dumb in networking... is it my ethernet disk??? it also has disabled the ability to shut off my computer automatically which is a nuisance at times when i'm in a hurry... i have to shut it off manually which means i have to wait for "It is now safe to shut off your computer.." message... if anyone has any solutions to my problems i would greatly appreciate it.. oh btw.. i have a PII 400mhz, Asus P2B mb, 128 mb pc100 sdram, 16 mb viper v550 agp, tekram scsi card with plextor cdrom and ricoh scsi cdrw...

[Chad Kingsley]

I have did a fresh install of Win98 SE & it seems to be very stable... I just wanted to let people know that Windows 98 SE is still the Windows 9x Family. In order to make 98 SE work properly I had to run the same install & motherboard patches, that i did with regular Win98. Just pretend that Win 98 SE is the regular as reguards to the install & you'll be fine.. http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

[Slare]

Darren:


Just tried out Win 2000 Professional (Beta3) this weekend via the Corp Preview Program. I really thought I was going to have problems, but I am happy to report it works wonderfully so far. Seems a bit hard on my 200MMX CPU with 128Mb at times, but it works. Autodetected EVERYTHING fine (my IDE ZIP100 even worked fine out of the box, something I never got really NT4 to be able to do), played a few DirectX6 games without incident.

If all goes well with further testing and the final release, I am not sure why anyone would bother with 98 any more....(knock on wood!!!)

Hope you get answers on 98 SE. I had considered getting it for our machines here at work, but not now.....

[Kevin12345]

Personally I havn't had a problem with internet sharing at all.
I've had SE running pretty much as an internet gateway for my network for right now and it's been up and running for about 3 weeks straight now without being rebooted and no problems yet.

[bainer]

well guys, first ill tell you this WIN98SE is SUPPERIOR in almost every way: stability, speed, and of course looks

the only problem is the internet sharing, which says teh ndis.vxd could not load it properly. but since i dont need net sharing, this is no biggie.
FYI i have FIC 2013 super 7 motherboard, 32mb 66mhz sdram, amd k6-2 450 cpu, 8.4 gb maxtor harddrive, 16mb voodoo banshee (quantum3d raven) video card, ess audiodrive 1868, 56k winmodem *pci*, 24x pioneer cdrom drive (its a home made computer)

once again, microsoft has *sigh* unfortunately created a masterpiece, one of these days i swear i wont buy another piece of micro$oft software: one of these days...

[BTC909]

I have Win98SE installed on 5 systems.

The only problem was Dial Up Networking which through a fit & didn't allow me to change the dial properties. I always thought this system had some kind of a hardware problem anyways.

2nd system, 0 problems.

3rd system, the TweakUI autologon from Win98 stopped working.

4th system, same autologon problem.

5th system, after figuring out the IDE cable was bad, no problems.

In case you don't know this you MUST install from scratch! No, don't reformat, just copy the cabs into a directory called \WIN98SE boot to Command Prompt Only & rename your \Program Files & Windows directory. That way you can pull out any files. If you renamed \WINDOWS to \W for example DON'T let Windows install in C:\W change it to
C:\WINDOWS. Also never upgrade, an upgrade normally installs perfectly fine but you will have "hidden" problems.

I've also realized you must have a solid system, if your system is flaky in any, Win98SE is well lets just say a "great test" of your hardware.

Sorry, I didn't try ICS.

Be sure your cab files are dated 5-5-99
Also grab DirectPlay 6.1a, SE doesn't include this. www.microsoft.com/directx

[Darren Wilson]

WHAT HAVE I STARTED HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

I have looked in to the SE debate a bit more over the weekend and have come up with the following.

I admit it is a little bit more stable on lower end systems than the original 98, but not enough to warrant the price of the upgrade. It is a lot less stable on my PIII 500 which is 100% stable under all other variations of windows including NT with any of the service packs.

The Internet Connection Sharing is still a mystery as all the systems that I have tried to get it working on, it will still not let me dial out on the server let alone connect over the network. I have not though had the NDIS.VXD error which someone else has pointed out. The systems have ranged from Intel P166MMX systems all the way through to my own PIII 500.

It seems like games only run correctly after installation , like stated by someone , if Direct Play 6.1a is installed. This seems quite likely anyway as most games now need the DirectPlay 6.1a extensions anyway so this is excused.

Peer-2-Peer Networking seems to be as unreliable as Win 98 standard is . So no change here

From what I can see is the only good points for people who already own Win98 original is that it detects the CPU type correctly ( no more celerons being passed off as PII's )and the inclusion of the updates.

If you already own Win98 original then I see no real point in upgrading as there is nothing there that warrants the price of the upgrade.


------------------
Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[This message has been edited by Darren Wilson (edited June 07, 1999).]

[rusabus]

I am now running on Win98 SE, and using ICS. It wasn't easy, but here is how I did it . . .

I opted for the upgrade vs full install -- so for all you guys who did do formats, this may not work.

As I said above, I did the upgrade, so I was left with all my old software i.e. wingate 3.01. After the initial upgrade, wingate seemed to be causing problems with ICS. I did an uninstall, but that didn't seem to fix the problem. I figured the problem must be in my network configuration.

I have Cogent 6911/tx 10/100 networking cards. Cogent was bought out by Adaptec, who produced the same card for some time, and therefore supports it. Naturally, I have every version of the drivers released for this card, but I found that 98 SE's drivers (for an intel 21140 based card) worked better than those supplied by Adaptec. LESSON #1 -- if Microsoft has the driver for your hardware, use that driver when you have problems.

There were a few more problems with my network config. I use(d) static I/P addresses. No particular reason, I just like knowing which PC has what i/p address. I cant get this to work with ICS. There is probably something I am overlooking, but I cant seem to find what.

On my client PC's, I have tcp/ip configured to use DHCP for WINS resolution. They are all configured to obtain i/p addresses automatically, and have dns disabled. I dont understand how ICS works with these settings, but it does. (but that is not all it took go sort things out) LESSON #2 -- let windows use it's defaults EVERYWHERE. It will do most things automatically.

Uninstall ICS on your host machine until you have EVERYTHING else on your machine working properly. After that, install ICS. It will assign a static i/p address of 192.168.0.1 and a Subnet of 255.255.255.0 to your host machine. Everything else will remain set as default.

note: I don't know if this is relevant or not, but every time I unsuccessfully installed ICS, my dial adapter (device to share) was prefixed with #1 but my network adaptor (device to share with) wasn't. When I finally got ICS to work, the dial up adapter was #1, and my network card was #2. Maybe this is not relevant, but in the help, the adapters listed are numbered, so if yours aren't, you may have a problem.

After installing and messing around for several hours, I did some registry work. hkey_local_machine\enum is a good one to delete. It will clear out all the information about your hardware, and bring windows back to the "detect hardware" state. This is useful if you add and remove a lot of hardware, and want to "clean up" your registry. This will also eliminate any custom driver settings, which can sometimes cause problems. I also deleted a lot of hardware related descriptions from the hkey_local_machine\system\currentcontrolset\servic es section. as always, backup your registry before doing anything screwey to it.

[SchmilK]

In my opinion, Win 98 SE is the toughest Windows 98 build yet!! I have been successful with every function in the operating system AND it doesn't crash anywhere near as much as win98 v1998. I'm running an o/c AMD K6-2 420mhz 128mb CAAS-2 memory, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live, Adaptec 2940 UW SCSI Card, and SMC 9432 nic....my system flies!!! Internet sharing via Direc PC between 2 Win 98 SE machines and a Win 2k build 2057 (which I use for all my audio mixing, and drum machines) and then my and my rooommate's 4 laptops that we bring back and forth from work.
My hugest suggestion is that you do a fresh clean install...and not overwriting files, but actually format your drive, get drivers for hardware made in late 1998 and 1999 only because that stuff has updated drivers all the time, and then just run setup from a dos prompt and you will be up and running in 45 minutes. (Or 22 if you create your own install script because you install your operating system so many damn times!! And its cool to run setup and have every peripheral detected and software installed for it.)
So, Win 98 SE is cool, Windows 2000 is going to be the God's operating system!! What can Win 2000 offer me?? Games that run off a Dual Processor computer with 4 disk Raid-Array, 3DFx enhanced games with true life enviornmental audio!!! Pretty Fu(<|ng tough if you ask me!!
So install Win 98 build 2222 Second Edition and enjoy what MS SHOULD have released instead of Win98 build 1998...but it was convienent that Windows 98 carried a build number of 1998....too bad Windows 2000 wasn't ready by build 2000.... Then we can have Windows 2000 second edition also! =)

YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAH MICROSOFT!

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(¯`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·-=SchmilK=-·´¯`·.¸¸¸.·´¯)

[Sniper7146@aol.com]

LINUX?

[DJ Brad]

W98 on the whole is better than W95, however, seems to cause problems with A/Bit TX boards (IDE controller stops working occasionally) and Adobe Photoshop4 seems to crash more regulary. Mustek USB video camera (VC-100) software doesnt work correctly. Twain drivers fail to switch between SCSI scanner, Miro PCTV pro and USB video camera on some software, thus devices have to be manually disabled in control panel

Fresh install on a 80Mb RAM home built PC.

[hav0c]

It's somewhat amusing to read some of these "feedback" letters concerning the release of Windows98 SE. The one that really made an impression on me was the one from Darren Wilson (this guy's a moderator???!)
Before anybody jumps on me for being one of Gates' lackeys, allow me to pose the question "How can someone who doesn't take the time to check their spelling possibly have the attention to detail that's necessary to troubleshoot an operating system?"
It's also worth noting that most of the people who experience problems installing a new OS are people who slam their systems together out of Third-World parts that the pick up at some trade show. HINT: If you use substandard components, chances are that you'll end up with a ****ty computer. Try opening the ol' spring-loaded wallet & pop for some quality hardware before you blame the software. This is especially tragic in cases where the individual is supposed to be a "computer professional". I can almost forgive end users for being dumb enough to buy their computers from Wal-Mart, but if you're allegedly doing this **** for a living, you're supposed to know MORE than the end user. Sadly, this is not always the case and that's what really pisses me off sometimes. There are so many people who fall victim to scam artists claiming to be professionals who clearly don't know **** about computers.
All that aside, I'd lay wager that damn few of those who are so quick to point the finger at Microsoft for releasing unreliable products are smart enough to run an alternative OS, like Linux. It's also worth noting that you don't see many scathing letters here from software testers or system administrators; these are the people who have enough pride in their abilities to use their brain and find a solution, rather than whine about it. Get a clue. Sure, Windows has its share of drawbacks . . . but let’s not forget that it was designed for people who would have to attend 6 months of night school just to evolve an opposable thumb. Lighten up, already or just run Unix.

[Mike_w]

AMD K6-2 350 on a FIC 503+ with 32 meg ram
Installed flawlessly on a fresh install.

Plus

AMD K6 300 on an intel tx m/b with 96meg ram
Again installed fine on a fresh install and on an upgrade to original win98

I must be doing something wrong???

[Darren Wilson]

In response to Havoc.

I don't see you offering any suggestions on solving these problems that people are having. For Gods Sake this must be your first time here as you are not even registered!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of slating the users who are having problems , why don't you offer some help instead or are you just one of the normal end users who want to be a tech but know ****???????

Before you start slating people , get to know them. I have been in this industry now for 9 years, Beta Tested Win95, 98 and am now on Win2K, just finished and passed with flying colours the latest Microsoft MCSE for the Windows family, so before you start telling people that they know nothing I would look at yourself first.

I have been working ( after giving them loads of grief )indepth with Microsoft over the phone, this week ,on the problems that I have been having & they know that there s some flaws in the Internet Connection Sharing section of SE, which they are working on now for a patch . I know that it is not me now , so how small do you feel Hav0c????? http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

As stated before my system is ' rock solid ' with all previous versions of windows ( including 2000 beta's ) & I certainly do not use sub-standard parts. Yet SE still falls over a the drop of a hat, even with all the latest drivers & patches.

Obviously Hav0c cannot ( or will not ) help people out who need it ( unlike most of us , and just wants to create **** ( which is what his name suggests anyway ).

Hav0c , why don't you register like the rest of us, or are you like the rest of the wannabe's who think they know but don't????

This message is not a ' flame ' but a response in annoyance to somebody who is not willing to take the time to help others.

------------------
Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[This message has been edited by Darren Wilson (edited June 09, 1999).]

[serafin]

If you install Win98SE you will need to update the Adaptec software that comes with HP's CDR (8100). It is a pain to find the solution. Also, it won't work the way it used to on the plain old Win98. You will see differences.

BTW, anyone get the M$ Force Feedback wheel working on Win2000?

[CAMYRU]

To think that I actually logged on to this forum thinking that I might learn something. Imagine that. I already know how to curse, point fingers and run other people down. Gentlemen please.
What happened to the powertoys and tweak in this version? They are NOT included in the reskit as they were in Windows98. A disk search for tweak came up empty. I installed tweak from my Windows98 CD and my system would not reboot to windows. Thinking I fouled the OS I removed it while in safe mode. I have alot of peripherals in USB operating on a Super 7 VIA chipset FIC PA-2013 motherboard. When I installed windows from a newly Low Level formatted disk I had two unsuccessful installs (system hang at hardware detection). Experience prompted me to format and start again, although a recovery was certainly possible. Win98 SE did NOT properly recognize my ADS, PCI/USB buscard. I could not remove the yellow flag until I physically removed the card rebooted and then reinstalled. This is an old PCI device trick so nothing new here as far as hardware support. My OS now recognizes the buscard. Yes, I disconnected the USB devices before I installed Win98 SE.
I was a little disappointed at first, moving from Win 98 to Win98 SE didn't seem to make much of a difference initially.
It does seem that the SE OS is very sensitive to hardware configuraion, ie: the subnet mask on my USB/Etherlink cable modem worked perfectly with Win98. In Win98 SE the connection kept crashing so I called my service provider and tecnical told me to change from 255 to 252, like magic....no more problem with the internet connection.
It is necesary to install all the patches filters and drivers for the VIA chipset (no change here).
The up side is that it seems like every time I boot up the system, the system performs a little better. I'm impressed with the color display, the speed of my internet connection and the general, slight boost in the system performance.
I'm disappointed that the OS is so sensitive and requires a very exact hardware setup...I thought that this was one of the problems that SE was supposed to fix.
Serafin is right about Adaptec direct CD it needs to be upgraded to version 2.5d you can download it here:

http://www.adaptec.com/support/overview/ecdc.html

I would appreciate reading about your experiences with Windows98 SE. This version is not supported and comes with NO manual...maybe we can help each other. I think that this new OS shows real promise.

Jeff

[Grogan]

A friend of mine and I were talking on IRC tonight and he was in the process of finishing up installing win98 SE on another computer beside him. He had a problem with his hardware not being detected and had to manually install most of his drivers and also the Internet Connection Sharing feature did not work. He installed the feature along with SE. He found that after removing it and reinstalling it, he was able to create the client disk and get ICS to work properly. The trick might be to get windows installed, get your nic card set up and working properly then install ICS from control panel add/remove.

I'm going to buy SE tomorrow (I made a nice fresh ghost image of my current install should I wish to roll back without losing too much time after I'm done playing)

I have more fun with windows itself than any of my games. I wouldn't miss this new one for the world : - )

Grogan

[MrRuckus]

I like Havoc, also do not really understand people like yourself Darren. You claim to be a man that has mass experience and knows all about computers and wow, you run a Bulletin Board in the internet but, you bitch and moan about how your computer wont accept Win98SE and blame it on Microsoft just because your comp runs fine under ANY other conditions/OS. Yet if you were to read some of these replies to your troubles you would see that SOME of us have NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER with Win98SE. So you see, it cant be Win98SE that is the problem because Microsoft has released it, and it works for most. MOST I use because of course for some Lamers who take a couple of tests and put a couple of computers together all of the sudden think they know all and when they run into a peoblem, Like Havoc said, dont Troubleshoot the issue. Instead they go right after the Software and point fingers. Please. Anyway'z, Im not going to sit here and go off about how I know all and have taken the same tests that U have and passed with flying colors (Which anyone who can read and takes the time to read the whole book can pass). I will also not say that I have been in Computer Tech Support for the last 10 years doing this very thing just about everyday which is TROUBLESHOOTING... You complain about how people here dont give you any help... I can tell you that if you were to call me and we had these troubles over the phone, I would have you send your system inhouse to be repaired because you have obviously done something to the system that has caused this problem because this exact OS works for our other 100,000+ customers... http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif
(Yes IM not a registered user, thats because I dont dedicate all of my time to little bulletin boards on the internet because it is a useless task. I did this little reply just because I found the page and decided to do so)

[rebby]

the problem here is simple. everybody wants a stable, secure, and problem free os. right? well, i've tried several os's (everything from msdos 1.x to sun's solaris 7) on several different hardware configurations. it seems that every hardware platform has an os that works flawlessly and fast everytime. best of all it is free. in other words, quit bitching about the mighty bill gates and start laughing at these posts from a linux point of view. like me :-)

[Rask]

Seeker...

Yes it wants you NIC driver disk. You've probably got an unsupported card and it needs the drivers included with it.

[JeanneD]

I haven't even tried 98SE, But I want to say..
I can't believe you newbies to this board are
putting Darren down like this....did you even read thru any of the other forums here? He tries to help as many people as he can, and he does seem to really know what he's talking about. He's disgusted especially because MS didn't give him support when he needed it, and rightfully so. Every tech I know gets aggravated to death at times and bitches about software and hardware and looks for or desparately needs help. Geez. Make your point, but you don't have to be rude. The one thing I really can't stand about this field is all the self-righteous, condescending, pompous people that seem to be in it... and I don't mean the users. Lighten up.




[This message has been edited by JeanneD (edited June 12, 1999).]

[TheDon]

I just became registered, but I would like to respond to what is going on in the group. First of all it seems Havoc and his lil friend are very like minded even to the extent of being the same person. hmmm.. One never knows, and it used to happen alot on a old bbs I was on. I don't know what Microsoft products you use, but most of them has at least one serious issue with anyones computer. What other product family can you name with more security bugs? What do you call the problems alot of people had with IE 4 and its install and uninstall? Did you like directx 1-3? I am not saying microsoft is not making any good software, but I am saying it is not perfect. I myself now will be waiting on Windows 98 SE, and maybe just skipping to Windows 2k(y 2k? http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif ). Under some circumstances I would have agreed it was hardware failure, but given that several other OS's in the past had run with no problems leads me to believe it is the OS flaking out. Lastly I believe in response to Havoc's remarks on unix that it is not for every one, and just because I prefer windows 9x, or NT v.x, 3.x because of it's usefullness to me does it make me any less of a technician? No.. if my hardware had drivers for linux I would do it but why should I? I like my Apha Centari. In fact I and most pc useres very capable of running linux, or any other unproductive(to me) OS. It all just comes down to what we like and have a need of. That is just my two cents. Just for your info I am running a duel boot Win 98/Be O$ 4.

TheDon

[This message has been edited by TheDon (edited June 10, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by TheDon (edited June 10, 1999).]

[ellingtond]

1. Win98 SE - Thanks for the heads up. I have asked my clients to avoid it for now. Maybe in a few months I will put it on new installs. That will give you guys enough time to work out the bugs for me http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

2. If someone is not willing to take the time to register, I don't care to hear there opinion.

3. Darren, you don't have to tell me your qualifications. That would be, (As we say in the south US) "Preaching to the Choir." I really appreciate the help you have been to me on numerous problems.

4. If these little boxes were not so damn small, it would be easier to check the spelling http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

5. If really had a choice, we would all be using Macs. Someone asked me once, if you like Macintosh, why are you a PC consultant?
I reply, "Ever try to make a living supporting a product that works perfectly out of the box, is easy to use, and never breaks down or crashes for no reason?" Exactly. As long as Microsoft acts like a monopoly, I will make money.
So why the bashing? Because we are the poor bastards in the trenches, trying to make this crap work, in every situation and configuration. I have EARNED the right to bitch.

I really appreciate hearing when it doesn't work, and the setup. And when it does work and the setup. These forums keep us from going back to the time where I would beat my head against a wall trying to solve a problem someone else had already figured out. . .and tech support was completely unaware of.

Keep up the good work. . .and require posters to register.

Derek Ellington

[alioops]

well..... just reading the posts, and found some of them to be useful. Thanx to the people who had problems, and the one's that decided to help, thanx to you too...
No, I am not running win98SE, but I know that I will have people asking about it, and now I have some answers, at least until I have the time to try it out myself... and that is the good thing about a bulletin board.
Unfortunately, there are some people out there who feel that they must run people down because they are not as "smart" or "perfect" as them. I'd be really curious to know how havoc and his (hhmmmm) similarly long winded friend treat their customers, if this is the way that they treat their collegues. Unfortunately, there are too many people like him, uh, sorry, them.... who are in this industry. It ends up giving the rest of us a bad name. I know a few people who are training to become techs, and will be good ones, who are almost ready to go into something else because they have had just one to many experiences with pompous people in the industry, and are not looking forward to working with such people.
I really enjoy my work, and look to the bulletin board to both see if there is anything that I can help anyone with, or if I can find a fix to a problem that I have encountered. I am grateful to those who have more experience than I for taking the time to help with a problem, and things like tech tales gives me a chance to laugh at things very similar to what I encounter. For those reason I registered, and check in at least a couple of times a week. Unfortunately, there is always some one out there who likes to ruin something for everyone else.

Keep up the good work here.

Alicia

[This message has been edited by alioops (edited June 10, 1999).]

[Darren Wilson]

RIGHT ENOUGH OF THE FLAMING.

I started this forum to try to solve my problems and state the problems that I had come across. Why do people get so much pleasure out of putting people down???? I posted my last message in response to the fact that I was being told ' that I know nothing and shouldn't be a moderator '. I, myself and a lot of others ,take the time to inform people of little bugs or quirks in the equipment or software that we use, for the reason of seeing if somebody else can come up with the solution or has had the same problems.

Look at the flames that Tom Pabst ( http://www.tomshardware.com ) got when he posted his Quake 3 Test results on his website before anyone else could????? He was stating his own findings and yet he was being told by the game programmers that he could not have done this as the feature was not coded into the demo. How can this be when I done the same tests as Tom in the same way??????

Other people are entitled to post what they like, but being disrespectful to people who take the time to help others out should not be allowed to work in the industry. These people are probably the same people who charge unsuspecting customers for repairs that do not need to be done.

I am sure that GENUINE users of WINDRIVERS.COM are sick of the flame posts.

I ask that people please refrain from posting flames & stick to what the forums stand for .TECHNICAL SUPPORT .

Right now I have got that off my chest, this is my current situation with SE.

I still have not managed to get the Internet Connection Working properly, but I can at least now dial out on the ' server '. B4 people start saying ' the network must be wrong ' , the network is 100% stable with all the normal protocols. & yes I am using the drivers supplied by Windows.

Have found that a couple of older legacy modems do not like SE, but these items are irrelevant as they are 28.8 or less and are no longer supported software wise on the relevant manufacturers websites.

USB support is a bit better than before.

AGP support for non-Intel chipsets, still require the latest patches,but that is nothing that we didn't know anyway.

Microsoft still haven't managed to get the IRQ sharing perfect but it is a little more leniant than before.

At least the Y2K updates that MS posted on the web, are no longer needed.

I will keep you all informed on the latest findings from myself & other UK techs who I have contact with.

------------------
Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[rusabus]

Seeker . . .

The client disk that 98SE is asking for is not the same as the disk for your NIC. It is a diskette 98SE will create for you that you can use to configure ICS on your client machines. (supposedly automatically)

Dont install ICS until you have your NIC working.

Also, with your power button, the soft power off feature is an advanced power managment function. Make sure you have APM turned on in your bios, and that there is a system device in the device manager called "advanced power managment controller" or something to that affect. Obtain the latest flash bios for your motherboard. (did you say a P2B?) I am not sure, but I think the P2B supports ACPI, which is a bit better than APM. If it does support ACPI, enable it in the bios, boot into windows 98, go into your device manager, and remove the plug and play bios from the system section. Exit the device manager, DONT RESTART, go into add new hardware and manually install an "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) Bios." Now restart your computer. It will re-detect all your hardware, and enable some cool power managment features (push the power button, and the system will do a proper shutdown OR go into suspend mode OR -- if supported -- use hibernate mode, where all information in memory is written to the hard driver and the computer is shut off. Hibernate only works with FAT16 drives with 98. I used 2000 beta 3 and it's hibernate worked on my FAT32 drive. The system could reboot from hibernate mode in under 15 seconds.)

[pfilias]

I have installed this Windows 98 Second Edition on my computer at home, fresh, and had not a single problem.

My brother and my friend both had some problems installing it, and I don't know why. Now, neither of them has problems.

Haven't tried the ICS as cable modems are the wonder of the world! Sorry dialup suckas!

[Jonathan Harker]

I think Havoc's advice was good, solid advice, but I also think the moderator knows what he's doing, too... http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

Personally, I like to find out what's causing these sorts of problems--aside from the new networking code, I can't think of anything about SE that's different from my current Win98/IE 5 retail build, aside from all of the obvious things that I, and probably most other people, have already downloaded from the Windows Upgrade site.

So, what's the mystery? Does SE add new core/system dlls, etc., that aren't found in Win98?--I don't mean any of the things you can download from the Windows upgrade site or IE 5 or the networking code...but what's different about SE otherwise.

Can anybody help me out? Thanks.

[it]

I installed Windows98 SE on 2 systems and it runs fine. I haven't experienced any problems at all. Just so you know i have a dual 333 (used for dual boot) system with 128 megs ECC Ram, voodoo3, sblive!, DXR2 decoder, Shotgun Technology modem from Diamond on a TYAN 1696d w/aha-3940uw.

[it (part2)]

hav0c is right when he says people that know what they are doing will get it running right (i do this for a living). Everyone seems to be saying that upgrading from Win98 to Win98 SE is a bad decision. I upgraded myself and have had no problems. The thing i question is the fact that everyone is jumping on the Linux bandwagon. Reports indicate 17% of the market is now using Linux. Does the report indicate that the 17% is still using NT? I'm willing to bet they are (i'll go as low as 16% of the 17% is still using NT/Win98 for arguments sake). Eveyone is expecting the perfect product, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!. Unix? Take my mouse away and die!!

[Phate]

I've been running SE for about a week now, and I still have yet to find a reason to warrant $89 for the upgrade (or whatever insane price that Full will cost, which is what I am using)

The build I am using is 4.10.2222 A, with CAB files dated 4-23-99, and, beside it having IE5 installed which saves me about 10 minutes that it would take to install it, I really don't see anything better. In fact, my sound will not work properly with the new version. Before you jump all over me for saying that, consider I'm using quite a crappy soundcard - a Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16 Studio Audio w/SCSI. It's on it's way out anyway, but at least it worked without problem solving under Win98 4.10.1998.

Basically, if you have Windows 95 and want to upgrade to 98, or just really like spending $90 on an upgrade patch, Win98SE would be the way to go, in my humble opinion. But for those of you that spend hard earned money on software and already have Windows 98, I really don't think there's much of a reason to get SE, with Win2000 coming 'soon'. I would go so far as to say I don't think it is worth the time to download a 650MB CD image of Windows 98, unless you're on a T3, etc. Of course, I would know nothing about things like that
*cough*

~Phate~

[hair]

Hey everybody, I am new here, but I read around a lot, and I am glad to see that people still have enough sense to be passionate about what they believe in.

To the moderator, I think you are doing a good job of keeping people to the subject at hand. Keep up the good work.

Just as a little dig to Havoc and Co, you don't need ANY certifications to be a good tech. I am self-taught, probably like most of the people here. Please don't trample on us, we make the computer industry what it is, and dare I say it, we still have the objectivity to try different things and to look at things alternatively.

That being said, I have used Win98 the minute it came out, and have to say I have had many network related issues with it. I run a mixed peer-to-peer network with NT 4, Linux, and 95/98 in my house.

Usually, for my paying customers, I will run 95, which seems to do OK.

98, on some of my machines, seems to forget its Network protocols, and Network settings every now and then...

Very frustrating, because the only thing that has seemed to work, is the good ol' "format c: /u"

Did 98 SE fix any of these funny occurences with you? I run mostly 3COM cards, which have been nothing but rock-solid with NT and 95...

I have tried all the usual tricks, but to no avail.

I would really like to have a stable multi-OS network in my house. It's a bit of a showpiece for my buddies. They love it, and we frag together for fun...

Any similar problems?

[Sean]

I just formated my system and installed 98 SE for many of the same reasons as Darren. I am allready connected to a network proxy for Internet (cablemodem) and so I can't get the damn Internet sharing to work becouse I only have 1 adapter (it worked fine with WinProxy). On top of that, i'm haveing unusal misc. problems with my system! /w nothing but SE installed! it was great with Win98!

Linux! here I come!
Sean Perkins
seanisdrunk@beer.com

[mbfreak]

To all of you out there who are having trouble with ICS in Windows 98 SE. Don't install ICS on your host, that is not how it was designed, all you have to do is install ICS on the clients and it works fine.

[Larusco Benetti]

I just want to do ICS. Is it worth it?

[AL]

Since i'm in the computer business, I've gone through quite a few Windows installations... I'm using Win98SE on 2 computers... and experienced no problems other than with WinAmp (2.22 and 2.23)... it seems to skip when i perform other operations (e.g. right click on a file)--and this is on a PIII 550, with 384MB RAM, SBLIVE, etc...
My friend experienced the same thing on his system with the new windows... don't know what could be causing it...

But anyway...

To get Internet Sharing working... don't bother installing in the initial installation of Win98SE--cause it won't install correctly.
The proper way to do it is:
1. Clean install Win98SE
2. Once installed, goto 'add/remove programs' in control panel
3. Click on the 'Windows Setup' tab
4. Double click on "internet tools"
5. Check "internet connection sharing"
(note: if it's already installed... uninstall it by unchecking it... reboot.. and repeat these steps)
6. Click OK for everything...
7. Now an "internet connection sharing WIZARD" will come up...
8. Just follow the directions...

(NOTE: only one computer can be the host to the internet... DON"T install internet sharing on the other computers connected to your network (cause you'll screw everything up--think of internet sharing like a "SERVER"(computer with IS installed) and the other computers the "hosts".. they'll detect it automatically after you finish with the instructions of the wizard)

gbeyes@hotmail.com

[AL]

Just a quick note:

If you want to learn more about Internet Connection Sharing, then just open up Windows98 SE's help (START-->Help)...
click on the "Search" tab
type in: internet connection sharing
Highlight "internet connection sharing overview" and click on the 'display' button

(Also note: DO NOT do the following as suggested above:
mbfreak posted 06-10-99 06:48 PM CT (US)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all of you out there who are having trouble with ICS in Windows 98 SE. Don't install ICS on your host, that is not how it was designed, all you have to do is install ICS on the clients and it works fine.)


*smooches*
Al
gbeyes@hotmail.com

BTW: in the previous post, I meant to say: to think of ICS as a Server/Host and its clients/workgroups... blah! you get the idea.. i hope...

[Larusco Benetti]

Sorry to be so much ignorant. Why cant I just upgrade from Win 98 to 98SE without doing a total format? My system is just fine but I would like to use the ICS.

[compucafe]

I have built roughly 20 computers since SE released and installed it on all of them with no problems. Architecture runs from mainly Asus or Impression boards, WD HDD, Celerons, K62's, P2's & P3's and have not had one problem. I don't use Cyrix, so I don't know about them. All new features in SE work properly and the ISC works nice and quick. Actually using here in my Cafe. Everything running smooth here. Don't really see the gripe, things just got better here.

[X-SLaYeR]

Hi all,
now for a Win98 SE success story! (bout time, eh?)

Just installed SE (on a dual boot Win2000) on my P2-450 @ 502, 256 meg ram, ASUS P2B-D mainboard, Viper v550 AGP video, AB AWE32, Realtek Ethernet card,Adaptec 2940 U2W SCSI card, USR 56k Modem, 10.2 gig Western digital IDE (Win98), 4.3 gig IBM SCSI3 (win2000).
And believe it or not, i upgraded from Win98 4.10.1998 and everything works like a dream. NO! im not kidding =)
I've read Darren's posts about the internet connection sharing not working... but mine does
I have a 3 PC network in my home - a Gateway 486/66 (i actually installed SE on that too and it works like a charm.. unbelievable right?), and a AMD K6-300 (win98 4.10.1998)machine
All 3 computers have IE5 installed and can share my internet access from my P2-450.
Here's how i did it:
First of all I have my network set up using TCP/IP on all machines (used WinProxy to share internet before), so the host machine's IP addy was 192.168.0.1 (generic default network IP), my other 486 and K6 machines were 192.168.0.2 and 192.168.0.3 respectively. Now here's the kicker, you have to set the client machines to automatically get an IP address from the internet server computer. To do this it is under Network Properties.. just set the IP address for the TCP/IP for the network adapter to AUTOMATIC instead of manual with the 192.168.0.2 stuff. Reboot the machines when it asks you to and BOOM! worked like a charm. Yes it works with IE, Netscape, ICQ, and AOL.
Well I hope this works for some of you... If not then i guess WinProxy will have to do for the time being (until Win2000 comes out).

Good Luck!

[X-SLaYeR]

Oops almost forgot.. I actually used the Windows Help feature, in case some of you might not have checked that...
it explains the TCP/IP stuff better than me..

[Cypher]

Ha Ha!
I can only suggest one thing:
DON'T USE WINDOWS!
....
Or at least not as much http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif
I've given up on windows, use it for games only now. Instead I run Redhat 6.0 Linux which has all the programs I need and is a lot more stable.
By the way, I don't think I've ever installed Windows 98 without at least one hard restart.

[Blake]

I'm running win98se on my P-II 450MHz, 128SDRAM, 13GB Quantum Firewall with no problems. It found all my hardware (NIC, Sound, Monster 3D II, USB Webcam, USB Zip Drive) and installed them perfectly. I also an a beta tester for MS... and win2k is going to rock. I ran win2k beta3 build 2031 for four weeks and then it crashed. Compare that to win98 OEM crashing 3 times on the day of installment.

[Jeffy]

Is there any reason to do this upgrade for the ICS?
I am currently using a very old computer as my router/modem sharing device, and have my Windows 95, Windows 98, Linux and Mac systems connected and sharing the dialup. My router/modem sharing device is a 486 w/8MB Ram....No HARD DRIVE.
I am running Linux on a single Floppy. If the router stops working I simply press reset. There is no keyboard or monitor connected to my router, just Ethernet, modem, and power. No PROBLEMS. Been stable for the last 6 months.

[Captnpook]

And now for another successs story. I have installed Win98SE on 2 machines here at my shop, both using clean installs. After viewing Darren's origional posting about ICS, I was a little worried about it's reliability. The machines were both Celeron 366 with an Acer MX3L MB and 64Mb RAM. They were clean installs and they went flawlessly. After setting up a peer-2-peer network, I installed a modem and tried ICS. Flawless. Worked every shot, and seemed quite reliable. I connected a machine to the network that was running Win95C with IE4, and set IE4 to use the ICS. Flawless. Upon my success here, I took it home and installed it on my 2 user peer-2-peer network. One machine is a HP P200MMX, the other a Celeron 300A with an Acer AX6BC MB. I was using Wingate 3 to share my cable modem. I upgraded both machines to Win98SE from Win98, and it still went flawless. Now, I have good reliable connections and don't have the third party software (WINGATE) using up valuable resources. I also previously had a problem on Win98 where my machine would lose resources, as if there was a memory leak somewhere, but Win98SE seems to have cleared that. It's only been a few days that it's installed, but all is clear on this end.

[Neuromancer]

Hey Jeffy, I would love to see what you have on that floppy! I have an old P90(being used as a monitor stand) that I would love to set up as a router type device.

To stay on topic, I am preparing to start installing SE on several systems tonight.
Wish me luck! (probably won't need it though, I never had any problems installing 98 in the first place (or any of the 100+ times after http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif )

[machman]

RE Windows 98 SE

I have installed it By Upgrading from the Standard 98 and it's fine

I would go as far as saying that it seems more stable than 98 ever was

But in Darrens Defence i have seen other installs which Refuse to play at all especially the ICS

Spec PIII450, 192MB, ASUS P2B

------------------
The evolution will be Televised

[Shawn E]

Just found this site, haven't registered yet, but probably will.

Anyway, I thought I'd share my system specs I am using to run Win98 SE. I did a clean install and have had no problems. I've played games such as Commandos, NHL99, TA, Starcraft, ran various apps, burned CDs with Adaptec Easy CD Creater, and have yet to experience a single crash, blue screen, etc.
I've been running SE builds for months now, and have been using the final for about 2 weeks. I even had good experiences with the betas. (a few crashes with the earlier builds but no major incompatibilities) One thing I have noticed with SE which I don't believe happened with 98 was just after Explorer loads up after booting, Windows seems to continue loading something for about 4-5 seconds. (the cursor remains an hour glass longer than normal)
I checked the registry to see if anything out of the ordinary was loading but there wasn't. This happens with no additional software installed. A little odd but no big deal.

Anyway, here's my HW:
Abit BH6 MB w/P2-400
128MB PC100 SDRAM
ATI Rage 128 Magnum
Adaptec 2940UW
Seagate Cheetah 4.3GB
Plextor 32X SCSI
HP 7570 CDR (IDE)
SB Live Value
3COM Etherlink XL 10/100

I will testing the ICS on another PC to see how that goes. I'll post my findings.

[PMCCLEND]

Just finished upgrading my 2 home computers.

My Pentium III really experienced a speed boost. The overall feel of the computer is much improved. I had none of the errors mentioned on the above posts. Everything went very smoothly including the Internet sharing which seems much more responsive than my WINGATE software.

My Pentium I - 200 really did not experience much change. However, it also installed smoothly.

So far very pleased with this release.

My advise to people who are having problems is doing a complete new installation by removing all unnecessary cards except video and install WIN98 SE clean. Then add the cards one at a time. Works almost 99% of the time.

[irikumi]

I am a Computer Tech in a small store, and have installed Win98 SE on several machines the last couple of days. I haven't had the time to try out the new Modem sharing feature, but I haven't had any unusual problems with running this update version. I have really not had much problem to speak of with Win98 in general, not the original release, or this 2nd Edition.
I have to question, a little, some peoples methods of setting up a machine. Most problems I have found with computers, as a repair person, are user error. Sure, I have witness my share of strange things with Windows, it is not a perfect OS. But, I have to say in my experiance, this OS delivers fairly well what it is supposed to.
I don't think Windows is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but its got the support that none other can boast. The only thing that comes close in my mind is Mac. I wonder why some people bang there heads as they do with, and about Windows. Maybe some people need to go Mac, if they can't handle PC. Why do some people thrash on Windows so bad, but continue to use it? Get something else if you hate it so bad.
Please don't respond to this post by talking about how Microsoft does this and that to crush the compitition, they are like any buisness that tries to be number one. They didn't invent there methods or tactics. Buisness is WAR, go play in someone elses sand box if you don't like sand kicked in your face.
The problems some people have, are not always related to Windows, but that is always what recieves the blame. There is a whole host of poorly written programs, and marginal hardware out there.
Maybe one day Windows will be so fool proof, that we can all bitch about something else. But then I guess I will have to find another job, cause then I won't be fixing YOUR Computers anymore http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif
Lighten up folks. If only everything we own was perfect. Then we could all sit around in Nirvana, and we would all be jobless.

[JeanneD]

For the MS bashers...
Using other OSs is fine and dandy, I'm trying Caldera myself, but if you are in this as a tech or business, most of what you deal with is 95\98\NT, you have to be able to resolve the problems. I can't just say to the company I work for, tough luck - switch to Linux on your 700 pcs if you don't like the problems, too bad if none of your apps will work...
I have to figure out the problems and fix them, it's my job.




[This message has been edited by JeanneD (edited June 12, 1999).]

[rkrenzis]

I laugh in the face of all people who still use Intel or Microsoft stuff.
WHA HAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Keep on wasting your money. Get a real operating system that works:

It's called: UNIX.
It's beyond me why people waste their money.

Another point: When Microsoft acquired HOTMAIL, it was UNIX driven. Microsoft ported it to NT, but NT couldn't handle it and it crashed 99.99999999999999% of the time. They had to go back to UNIX. I'm sure Microsoft wanted everyone to know this.

Also, Y2K under UNIX...no problems! Could someone explain what is Y2K again for those of us who don't use a compliant os and why Microsoft and Intel products are such a waste of time and money?

------------------
NT tries to do everything UNIX does, but fails.

[Instigator]

Ok you freaks, here is the deal. I am a top level tech for one of the hottest selling OEMs. (there is only a few so take your pick)
Windows 98 SE is a great OS, I've been running beta version all year and every one has been more stable than the original 98 can hope to be. Of course this is on MY system, which I custom built and has only the best componets in it (BX6 motherboard/3com 10/100 NIC/ MX300 and Ensoniq sound cards and an Asus 3400TNT/TV).

If i go and try it the low end peice of crap systems that my company builds, then yes I have problems (AMD processors and/or non intel chipset motherboards (VIA/SIS)/ Cough, Copugh Bigfoot harddrives/ COUGH COUGH COUGH Rockwell Riptide modem/sound combo cards (Even Packbell doesnt use combo cards anymore) ATI video)

Conclusion? You get what you pay for. If you buy any major OEM machine at all from a place like CompUSA(HAHA)/Best Bay (HAHAHAH)/Circut City (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) Then you deservce the problems... they are the price you pay for being cheap with your computer!

[L.Marie]

HEY KEWL SITE! THANKS ALOT MR.DARREN WILSON
YOU ARE DOING A BITCHEN JOB DUDE!
Well with all the neg comments I just thought I'd share a few good one on the w98se
I have been doing P.C.SCIENCES FOR 6 years now I am not a PRO by any means but as good as most out there.I try really hard to intorduce people to this fasst growing field
and get them started on the internet hiways.
ANYWAY I have run 98 a year before it was released,I have run the first release and now the WIN98SE .What amazed me was MY MOM
brought it home and upgraded her system all
on her own!with no prob.nohardboots and no net or hardware failers! MOM HAS ONLY DONE WIN98 FOR 2YEARS!fROM what I've read it seems that the OEM 98SE has more problems than the plain w98se upgrade.
However when I download the IE5.0 it crashed the system,but I believe that
I just had a bad file down load.I have sence
reformatted the HD and am having improved
hookup speeds for the internet.
I have found that w98 likes to play with it's self so I do not leave it running when
not in use.I also found that the task master tune up setting sometimes get cared away so I delete them.AGAIN I WELL SAY I AM NOT A PRO
BUT A HARDING WORK GRUNT.

[rvail]

Possible cure for certain hardware problems:
In bios: APM: disable. ACPI: enable.
PNP OS installed: yes.
Boot to Safe Mode, check for "ghost devices"
under Ctl. Panel/System. If there's two of any one device, delete both. Then reboot. Had multiple "instances" of keyboard, modem,
monitor on Abit BH6 until these were corrected, even after having deleted HKLM/Enum in registry.
Does this occur with other motherboard brands? AOpen, Soyo, Intel, etc.?

[Darren Wilson]

everyone can stop bitching now, I have finally sussed all the problems out.

I have now managed to get ICS working on my systems at home with some help from Microsoft ( & they didn't try to charge me either http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif)

I followed a few of the suggestions on the forum to no avail, so I decided to have a fiddle with the DHCP server. Guess what??

Changed a few settings & BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least now Microsoft realise that this new feature ( bug??? ) is not a s easy to setup as they first thought!!!!!!!

------------------
Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[Grogan]

A followup (I posted here a couple of nights ago)

PII 300, PCPartner board 440LX, ATI rage pro 4 meg AGP video card, 128 Mb SDRAM, Sb16 sound card, Quantum Fireball UDMA 2 hard drive (using DMA setting in windows), Conner 1.2 Gb hard drive as slave (5 years old), parallel port external ZIP 100 drive. No NIC cards or networked PC's so I can't comment on Internet Connection Sharing.

I did a format and clean install of Windows98 SE and everything went smooth as silk. It detected all my hardware (I then installed updated drivers after) and everyting is working as before. All my software and games are installed and they all work. (a minor C++ runtime error issue in my encarta 96 world atlas program but hey, thats a pretty old program now and we can't expect every little thing to work properly with some of the new libraries. The program is still usable even as long as I avoid the action that causes the error)

Canon BJC 4100 printer: drivers from Canon's site did not work properly, caused the system to hang mid way through every print job. After removing the printer and then manually removing the 3 mb worth of files (*sigh*) and installing the driver supplied by windows, though, it works great.

Those are the only problems I have had; I wish that it were this easy for everyone.

Grogan

[songoku80]

I've installed my Win98SE
it was perfect at all
no error occurs
and The ICS working properly
I download it from Hacker site
the version is 4.10.2222A with 16 digit serial numbers
If there is anyone knows where I can download Win200 Beta3 tell me.....we can share.............Thx

[Warlock]

Well gang,
I was a beta tester for the SE version..
You want to talk about bugs!
But as we neered the end with beta 3 it worked fine! In fact, When I got my relese copy I inserted it in the cdrom and it asked me if I wanted to update my system. With lots of fear (I have too much to loose!) I said yes. In 20 min it was finished.. It has been working fine since.. in fact ALL functions are working. Including INET Share.
Now a tip I got from MS from the start of the beta was to create a boot disk with the cdrom drivers on it, Then, fdisk with fat 32 and format the HD with win95.
Insert the OS cd and the boot disk and reboot and go.. Worked great!

[wayne batten]

i have installed 11 upgrades to windows98
first release to the second release SE , what i did was removed all cards and the drivers except the video card

i made sure that the windows temp. file was cleaned out, i cleaned all internet cache files and internet temp. files. i also cleaned out all cookies. these files for the internet will have a impact on installing IE5
so delete them. also delete your internet connection in my computer.

then i went into the system configuration utility/then startup tab, shut every thing off except the system tray.
re-boot your computer. after rebooting then you can install the upgrade.
from here you should not experiance any problems.

you should do this when ever you upgrade if you want to keep what you have. all this took me two hours total.

of course i was updating win98 first build to the SE build

i have not experiance any problems and i find the SE build to be faster and more stable

on 4 of the upgrades that requested internet sharing i had no problems.

most of the boards were FIC503+ and the asuse p5

GO TO THE WEB SIGHT AND GET THE LATEST DRIVERS TO YOUR CARDS BEFORE UPDATING, IF YOU CAN USE CERTIFIED DRIVERS FOR A START AS YOU SHOULD WITH ANY UPGRADE.

sorry for the typo`s in a hurry!
wayne
wbatten24@hotmail.com

[Robbie Cannings]

Well I had the same problem. I spent weeks reinstalling windows 98 SE and it still didn't work. I had been using different hard disks, different motherboards. I had pulled my computer apart that many times that I felt like going and buying a copy of Win 95. Well you are probably wondering what my point is..........

I finally found the answer. I did have 2 hard disks in my compter. I decided to try removing the secondary hard disk, and it worked fine. I am now running Windows 98 fine.

I have many contacts which can research these problems, and I would be quite happy to help anyone with further problems. (by the way, NONE of these contacts work for that F**KER Bill gates. I HATE MICROSOFT!!!) My Email is cannings@tig.com.au

Do you know, I tried to get some help from microsoft, and they tried to charge me fifty dollars. Now that is waht I call cheap.

well, good luck in solving further problems with windows

[Hawaiian Tech]

Personally, I don't know what you all are complaining about. I've installed SE on two machines without a glitch and my two co-workers have installed install SE on their machines without a single problem. We all have different hardware and in fact, it installed even smoother than the previous versions of Windows. I'm not a MS fan but they still do build the best OS out on the market. Simply put, Win98SE is Win95 more streamline.

GenX

[codemantx]

recently had a customer bring in a Toshiba Tecra 730CDT with Win95b wanting to upgrade to Win98 SE. unfortunately, Toshiba's support site had no procedures for installing 98 SE; only the standard upgrade.

followed Toshiba's instructions. but after the scandisk on installation, got a pop up message saying that Toshiba Windows 95 Utilities is not compatible with SE, and refers to Hardware Section in SETUP.TXT on how to uninstall the utilities. there, MS says to upgrade Tosh Win95 Util to Tosh Win98 Util BEFORE installing SE, NOTHING about uninstalling; Tosh support site says to do this AFTER. i tried both ways with no success. there was no uninstall option in Add/Remove Programs, either.

spent over an hour on the phone with Toshiba Tech Support; they were no help. made back ups of SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT before going any further.

installed a standard Win98 upgrade, no problems. uninstalled that; restored SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT from back up. next, d/l Tosh Win95 Util from website, installed it again (watching what files were placed where) and then combed thru the registry, win.ini, system.ini and removed all keys and references to these files, then deleted these files and directories. rebooted and tried installing SE again. still no luck.

reinstalled Tosh Win95 Utils, and restored SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT from backup, and was ready to call a no-joy. just happened to have the Control Panel open and saw that an icon for Toshiba Utilities which HAD previously been there was now GONE. decided to give it one more try. it FINALLY worked. still don't know exactly what happened. for all intents and purposes, the machine was in the same condition in which it came in.

don't think this is so much a 98 SE problem as it is a Toshiba problem. but there does seem to be some misinformation on MS's part for a message refering one to a file for instructions on how to UNinstall something, only to have instructions to INSTALL something else.

any thoughts or ideas?

Cody

[Bane]

I don't want to come off very rude, but I probably will, sobeit.

I get so sick and tired of so-caled 'techs' that work just once or twice with a particular product, have a bit of a hard time with it and claim it's "****".

For what it's worth, I installed Win98SE Beta's 1-3, as well as the final release all over top of a Win98 install that was having several problems, and not only did everything go smoothly, but by the time I installed the final revision, it fixed every problem that I was having!

That's on an AMD K6-2 300 (oc'd @ 333) on CalGraph Photon 100HC(MVP3C), with 128MB PC100 RAM, AGP Banshee, 10/100 3Com NIC, SB Live! 512, Diamond Ultra SCSI board, Plextor 4x CDW, NEC SCSI 32X CDR, Maxtor 6GB UDMA, W.D. 4GB UDMA.

What's more, I performed a fresh install of Win98SE, final release, on an old clunker Pentium233MMX with 512K Cache, a really really old SB16 ISA board, a 1.6GB HDD, a 2x CDROM, 64MB RAM, some cheasy 4MB PCI vid. card, a 3-year-old 10Mb NIC, *AND* what's more I installed DUN Sharing... EVERYTHING WORKS GREAT!!!

And the icing on the cake: 3 other guys have successfully installed Win98SE without needing to complain! http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

So, for everyone out there that's whining, especially the one that claimed to be a 'Registered OEM', quit yer bitchin' and get a grip! If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have problems with every machine you tried to install it on... maybe a couple, but not the majority!



------------------
Brandon Gresham
Murray, UT

[Bane]

L. Marie, I don't know what you are referring to when you said that "I have found that w98 likes to 'play with itself', so I don't leave the computer on when I am not using it".

First off, we're talking about a computer here, not a 14 year old adolescent! http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif Just kidding.

Seriously, I have been running one version, or another, of Win98 since December of 1997, and my computer has never been turned off... in that mix I have had to replace a system board that died, upgraded the processor, downgraded the processor, upgraded it again, and upgraded it again, upgraded from SIMM's to DIMM's, and then added more, installed 4 different types of video boards, 2 different sound boards, added SCSI and a burner, added a 2nd HDD, changed out the power supply, converted over to PS/2, swapped NIC's once, had two modems installed, then removed both, and probably a whole lot of other crap that I can't remember.

Again, other than while performing these changes, the system has been up 24/7 (oh, but not during lightning storms or power outtages). And so far, I haven't caught my w98 'playing with itself'...

... but maybe that's because it doesn't have an example to learn from... (hint, hint) http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

Just teasing you...



------------------
Brandon Gresham
Murray, UT

[Eagle PC Diagnostech]

I'll take an Intel computer, powered by Microsoft, any day.
I think most of all the problems are, you upgrade your operating system, but forget to upgrade the parts to make your operating system WORK.
It's like trying to put a Ford part in a Chevrolet.

[Bane]

Good analogy (sp?) -- And I would agree w/your observation...



------------------
Brandon Gresham
Murray, UT

[GIG-O-Tech]

okay. I've just got my first copy of win98se and it went on a very very cheap machine and installed excellent while I was having all kinds of problems with the orig win98 to even begin the setup... the system consists of cyrix6x86mx-233 16meg ram built on the motherboard, 2 8meg simms added in, sis 6215 svga chipset on board, cmi8330 (I think) sound, seagate 4gig drive 24x cdrom ... I haven't tried ics on it but It was in the list of one of the things I had to remove from the device manager.

hopefully every win98se goes as smooth as this one did

Jeremy

[scoobie]

Oh man what entertainment reading this debate has been.

Now before I get slammed I am not any affiliation with Havoc, and I have posted helpful hints (in other groups) and I am registered. (why any of that matters is beyond me)

I find it funny that the moderator of this group, whether he offers good advice or not, would have the attitude he started this off with.

He gave Microsoft and their products the same attitude that Havoc gave him. Then got mad at Havoc. I don't get it.

Think about things a bit here.

Win98SE is an OEM version. It's intended audience is those OEM's who pay Microsoft bucks for features and enhancements. Some examples are Dell, Gateway, Micron, etc.

Their operations pump out thousands of PC's all exactly the same. That is their market.

The fact that others build computers without the same quality control methods as the big boys and are allowed access to the OEM versions is a benefit to us, not a shortcoming of Microsoft. Imagine installing This OS the retail way, without the benefits of OEM enhancements.

Buy the retail version and then call the retail tech support que! Don't buy the OEM version and call the retail support que and come unglued on the poor tech answering the knowledge base.

If you are indeed a registered OEM reseller, go through your channels, don't take the easy way out and don't throw your weight around and opinion on a one time experience.

I am sure all of us here that service computers have had problems with a piece of hardware that we know works perfectly on another computer.

Also take into account that the product is new, therefore a new paradigm is in place. Your old methods might need to be tweaked to work here. Do you install Win98 the same way you installed Win3x? I think not, things evolve and change and your attitudes must also. How can you work in an industry so full of change and be so intolerant.

I will say I am pleased that Mr. Moderator at least posted his history and some solutions.

It was interesting to watch people take sides in the debate at hand.

I also find it interesting to see the politically correct group bashing Microsoft, promoting Mac's, Linux, Unix and the like.

None of the superior products according to some have done the one thing that Microsoft/IBM have done. Put PC's everywhere and helped automate the world. This does not mean that Microsoft hasn't made mistakes, or could do a better job of making products.

After all those paid to work on computers would not have jobs if it weren't for problems.

Now lets get the title of this forum changed from "Windows 98 SE - Steer Clear of it" to something positive and get back to fixing PC's.

scoobie

[rusabus]

This is for Larusco Benetti


Sorry that nobody has really answered your question "I just want to do ICS, is it worth it?"

That really depends. Do you currently have a third party ICS program i.e. wingate?

If you do, it is probably not worth it -- that is if your program fills your needs.

Last time I checked, wingate was quite expensive. Furthermore, it wont work with a lot of online games like Everquest.

ICS in Win98SE works with Everquest, and any other program (that I've thrown at it) that uses the internet, flawlessly (once you get it to work). Based on my experience with ICS, I would say go for it. If you've been reading these posts, you will see that I had a dandy of a time getting ICS to work, but I still reccommend it. It is not as feature rich as wingate (no remote administration or remote disconnecting) but it is much more transparent to internet applications, so more of them work.

Just my opinion. (which may be too late for you)

[SoccerFiend76]

First of all I have to thank Darren, if win98SE worked *perfectly* then this would not be neccesary http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif The point is that one WILL experience problems with computers. Imperfect machines run by imperfect software all made by imperfect beings. Accept the fact that NOTHING is perfect and this discussion is to provide HELP to those who are experincing problems.

As for linux, the OS is free but my time is not. If i had 3 days to get a top of the line ati/riva/voodoo3 working then maybe it is viable. Oh what does linux sound like again? Linux is great for servers but is crap for client (non-server) machines.

Back to the point. WIN98SE DOES HAVE PROBLEMS. It does not work on all system configs (that seems obvious to me and I do not have 10+ years experience in the biz). Lets try to help those with problems instead of slagging them. Kudos again to Darren for not getting dragged in to a flame war. Win98se has the most problems on older boards/cpus in particular. I have noticed few tx boards on this discussion. My QDI tx works fine under 98se but an ASUS tx-e (with updated bios) does not. Problems appear mainly with ISA devices, especially NIC cards. It may be neccessary for you play with the bios settings for ISA timings etc. Perhaps more conservative settings are required or switching to PCI based cards. Win95/98 appear to be more fault tolerant as well as more overclock friendly (coincidence?) http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif than 98se. i run my 233 at 292 under win95/98/linux/nt4 but system locks in 98se. The ASUS board is still not functioning under 98se (except under safe mode, no problems reported under device manager)

I will be trying a USB ethernet adapter as well as newer NIC cards (both ISA/PCI) later today when I am at home. The card functions under 95 perfectly (disk caddy) but the fresh 98se locks up on boot (right around the "normal" pause with NICs installed)

Has anyone else had any similar problems with a 3com509b isa? FYI the ASUS is a p-166mmx, 64mb sdram(pc-66)10.2 Western Digital, 4 meg ati (mach64) pci. sb16awe32, pci-usb adapter

Any help/ideas would be appretiated,

Thanks ppl,

Gustin




[This message has been edited by SoccerFiend76 (edited July 11, 1999).]

[houseisland]

I am running W98SE on a multiple boot system with NT. For most of what I use it for it works adequately well, but it is not without problems. It produces an alarming number of blue-screen errors. It sometimes hangs, locking the system up completely. It sometimes loses my modem. It sometimes loses SB16 emulation drivers. It crashes in start up sometimes. It sometimes goes through multiple self-induced reboots when starting up. It seems highly allergic to anti-virus software. In the end, it always seems to repair itself, though, and it eventually does what I need it to do. I just have to be patient. However, for the price of the OS, I think I have the right to expect a little more reliability and convenience.

[Seamus]

Hi there
I've had alot of problems with Win98SE as well for example: PC locking up programs freezing up, some things i have noticed are when win98se locks up if i leave it for about 5 mins it will reboot the PC also if i try to multi-task between different programs the computer will start to slow down greatly until it crashes a bit stupid whenever i have a PIII 450, 256MB ram, 25GB HDrive 32MB videocard, if this is not enough for win98se then maybe a cray super computer, come on you guys at MS it's time to take us into the future not back to the stone age.

I will a wait the next release with some due care.

[gnslngr]

Just got done with a training exercise in a class of newbees. We took a perfectly good Win98FE machine, did a del tree and installed Win98SE and had no problems at all. It even detected the nic and set it up properly along with the ATI graphics card's drivers. I'm Impressed.

[madmax2]

hiya gents, would like to comment on a few points here,i work for a large computer co, in london and we are actively installing win98 and win98se on all the systems we supply, with no abnormal issues , i.e. nothing out of the ordinary for microsoft, the o/s is as stable as it should be. No, I am not a microsoft groupie, my personal system runs redhat6.0, but lets give credit where credit is due. P.S. we are using oem version on win98se and to date still havent got ics to function correctly, both machine can see each other fine, the host can dial out and handshake correctly BEFORE ICS installation, but after ics installation the host can no longer complete the login process. removing ics does NOT cure the problem, all network protocols, clients and adapters must be removed and reinstalled after a reboot to get the host operational again... go figure!
p.s. windrivers is probably one of the better sites around, thanks guys!

[rnusbaum]

I have had no problems with Win98 SE. I have it installed on a PII 450 with 256MB of SDRAM. I have found it to actually be more stable.