Please, read this!

[AlienDyne]

Too many flame wars and too much bad language found lately among newer (mostly) users.

Anyone who notices similar activities, please feel free to contact and notify us.

Windrivers is the #1 resource on the web!

Lets keep it clean people!!!

------------------
"Matter is passive. In spite of its power, it can't be controlled without the human mind." Sokrates

My Hardware Info, Hardware Media and Computer History page (http://www.geocities.com/alienhardware)

[stormtech]

I agree whole heartedly!!!! I've been coming to this site since it's inception on the web and have been a WinDrivers addict ever since. I recommend it to Everybody! The flaming and bad language is unexceptable. Keep it clean, fun and informative for all of us please. I use this as an escape, to share tech experiences with other techs that I might not get to do otherwise. Let's not spoil it for the rest of us. Excellent post Alien!! Sorry for the ranting but it was needed.

"They don't call them users for nothing"

[BreakWindows]

Hmm, l'm willing to admit l might be one of the people guilty of this. l have a filthy mouth, but l do try to keep it clean when typing...but sometimes things slip through.

lf l've offended anyone, l apologize. l just like to help http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/biggrin.gif
ln the future, l'll be cleaner than Times Square (new, not old). l hope everyone else will do the same. We're all on the same side here!




------------------
Either drop the Windows out of your computers, or drop your computers out of the windows.
BreakWindows (http://www.breakwindows.com)

[Jvaguy]

i could prob tone myself down a bit .. but i think in general i dont say bad things .. cause there is younger people here .. and what example do we set to them .. to them i imagine we sound like beer gut puter geeks and blow everything up ... of course .. the kids today make me look like a angel .. but ether way .. we all should be more professional (unlike some of our jobs, and no pointing fingers heheh)

[Damned Angel]

hows about you start banning the IP's of repeat offenders and ppl who are obviously just trying to start a fight.

[spinning]

I work(ed)at a company, up until a few days ago that used a proxy to monitor internet activity. I was allowed to use windrivers.com, because it is a clean forum. (ie: no porn ads, bad language or illegal stuff), however, if they would have seen some of the recent posts, they would have included it in the list of banned sites. They would have also suggested that Net Nanny, ban the site also. (Net Nanny provides the deny list for the Netware Proxy).

Even thought that particular companies IT department was full of paranoid people, there are many companies like that.

Keep up the good work.

Thats just my 2 cents

[Green Iguana]

Originally posted by Damned Angel:
hows about you start banning the IP's of repeat offenders and ppl who are obviously just trying to start a fight.I agree, this would be a reasonable solution.

[jimmr13]

Originally posted by Damned Angel:
hows about you start banning the IP's of repeat offenders and ppl who are obviously just trying to start a fight.

Okay sounds good to me, And If it was me I am totaly sorry, Won't happen again !But if it wasn't Ban um ! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------
If all else fails read the directions !

[Jallentino]

I haven't seen much of that at all...strange.

[CREEPINGDEATH]

However I admit I have used minor curses When apropriate ,I am sorry if I offended anyone and I'd just like to say "pardon my french".



------------------
~If you can't walk the walk don't even try to talk the talk~

[bcgreen]

i agree with this post. merry christmas to all!

[pga]

my problem is keeping my mouth shut when one of those newbie offenders calls the other techs profane names or insults the people helping him/her for free...

[DonJ]

While I've seen a little bit of bad language, what really gets me steamed is when somebody asks for help on an old system and then somebody replies to get rid of that old piece of junk and get something else. I mean, I thought that was one of the reasons for this site...to help people out without having to go buy something else.
By the way, keep up the good work! I must admit that I usually check out this site several times a day...except maybe on weekends.
Just one man's opinion...
DonJ


------------------
Hey, it's all FM to me!

[pcshark]

But OS/2 is only a 3-letter word! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/tongue.gif

------------------
R. Bret Walker, CNE

Wondering what videos to rent this weekend? Check out The People's Reviews (http://www.geocities.com/pcshark/b-e), movie reviews written for the people and by the people.

"It's ironic, isn't it? The people who can think are so afraid of those who cannot."

[pga]

Originally posted by Damned Angel:
hows about you start banning the IP's of repeat offenders and ppl who are obviously just trying to start a fight.

but if they have more than one ISP they use for the internet, this wouldn't work... also if there are others who use the same ISP's as the idiot's, they would be blocked also...

it might be better just to report them to their ISP.

....or we could find out where they live and just kill them....

[CREEPINGDEATH]

Originally posted by pga:


....or we could find out where they live and just kill them....


I'll second that.


------------------
~If you can't walk the walk don't even try to talk the talk~

[This message has been edited by CREEPINGDEATH (edited December 10, 2000).]

[NPaladin]

Originally posted by pga:
but if they have more than one ISP they use for the internet, this wouldn't work... also if there are others who use the same ISP's as the idiot's, they would be blocked also...

it might be better just to report them to their ISP.

....or we could find out where they live and just kill them....

Well, I doubt killing them would be appropriate.....and to be honest, I don't think IP banning would work either, unless they have a static IP (You can't really legitimately ban a whole ISP for one person's actions...it just doesn't seem right). Besides, you'd probably have to ban all of AOL. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif

You could just require people to register, and enter an e-mail, and keep track of e-mails that shouldn't be allowed to register. That's probably (and unfortunately) the only viable solution as far as proactive measures...banning an entire ISP could get many techs who did nothing wrong rather angry. Plus if any flamer is worth his salt, he'll get an account on each of the big ISPs and force you to screen them ALL out....then where would we be?

P.S. I hope no flamers out there read this. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif



------------------
Bryan Pizzuti
CompTIA A+, CNAP
bpizzuti@earthlink.net

[pga]

originally posted by AlienDyne at:http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000027.html
http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000032.html

and http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000033.html

Ok. We've had enough of you!!!
Those was your last shares made from us!
Next time I won't just block your posts. They will be deleted!!!
I feel sorry for you my friend! YOU are the loser here! The #1 resource on the web kicked you out! Tell me something, who's the loser now??? .......

.... Have a nice week, all of you!
Later...

(Don't even try to mail me or bomb me or something. You've been already blocked!
BTW, I'm a certified Tech too, but I feel sorry that you are a colleague of mine!)

hehehe... cool.... yu da man AlienDyne. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by pga (edited December 11, 2000).]

[AlienDyne]

I have had enough of him, pga.
That was the best I could do for all of us.

I'm pretty sure he won't start it again, cause I won't let him to. I keep visiting Windrivers more than 20 times a day.

Finally, I have to say, I haven't had any problem with you, pga, replying to that loser's posts.

After all, he started flaming.

You do a fine job. Keep up posting here! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

------------------
"Matter is passive. In spite of its power, it can't be controlled without the human mind." Sokrates

My Hardware Info, Hardware Media and Computer History page (http://www.geocities.com/alienhardware)

[jaeger]

Ouch, remind me never to piss off AlienDyne.:-)

------------------
Life isn't one damn thing after another, it's the same damn thing over and over.

[This message has been edited by jaeger (edited December 12, 2000).]

[AlienDyne]

Jaeger,
If you behave, no one is pissed off!

There are some simple rules everyone (including me) must follow. It's too easy for all of us to start calling others anyway we want. It's too easy to start posting questions about things that aren't related to what Windrivers stand for. It's too easy to make this BBS the worst one on the web.
I say let's keep it clean and always #1!

Hope everyone agrees on that!


------------------
"Matter is passive. In spite of its power, it can't be controlled without the human mind." Sokrates

My Hardware Info, Hardware Media and Computer History page (http://www.geocities.com/alienhardware)

[pga]

Originally posted by AlienDyne:
...Finally, I have to say, I haven't had any problem with you, pga, replying to that loser's posts.......

....You do a fine job. Keep up posting here! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif



Thanks AlienDyne.... you're alright in my book.

I tend to take the insults to the other techs, as well as myself, from these idiots personally...

if i ever get carried away, email me... This site's the best, and I wouldn't want to do anything to contradict that.

[This message has been edited by pga (edited December 11, 2000).]

[LORE]

I personaly don't find the language to be a problem, but there are kids here, and I do think it is important to set GOOD examples for them. I hate when people flame others, that is just roooooooood! I come here to, get help, help others, and give my opinion on topics. I don't expect to get flamed for that opinion, and neither should anyone else. Thats just my two cents

------------------
We may be through with the past, but the past is not through with us.

[furlong47]

Alien, I agree with your actions 100 percent.
There is no room for people like that in a place like this, where we should all be trying to help each other out.

[Damned Angel]

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

[Revenant]

Please be advised, I have informed TechUK's ISP of his actions on this board. Please read the following message. If you all feel the same way I do, please right them at this address: support@totalise.net I will post again with any response I get. I for one will be adding totalise to my ban list for internet domains until I receive confirmation that this user has lost any compensation for email he received for these base attacks.


Hello,
I frequent an internet forum that can be found at http://www.windrivers.com. Recently, one of your email customers used said forums to post abusive messages and insult other members of this board. The end result was to gain "shares" from your company, based on the number of email responses he gained. I do not know what kind of company you are, but I am sure that you did not intend for your company to gain its traffic generation in such a negative manner. Examples of his posts can be found at the following links under the name TechUK. If you follow the info to his profile, you will see his email address is: jholloway@totalise.co.uk
http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000027.html http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000033.html http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000032.html

This bulletin board has members from all over the world, including many active and supporting members from the U.K. If you would like your company to be seen in a positive light, I would recommend that such users as jholloway not be allowed to keep shares generated in such a base and inappropriate manner, and furthermore, I think it inapporpriate to allow such users to continue to use your service in such a manner that is ill regarded and purely insulting. Please let me know what, if any action, you can/will take against this user. I for one will be adding totalise to my personal ban list for internet domains until I receive confirmation that this user has lost any compensation for email he received for these base attacks.


Thank you for your time.


Joshua Parsons
Network Administrator

User name on windrivers is Revenant.


------------------
Do one thing everyday that scares you.
Do two things everyday that scare the bejesus out of someone else.


[This message has been edited by Revenant (edited December 11, 2000).]

[Revenant]

Their Response:

>From: support@totalise.net
>Reply-To:
>To: irevenant@hotmail.com
>Subject: Update:EX053374
>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 00 22:31:40
>
>Dear Joshua
>
>I am sorry that you have experienced difficulty with your forum. No doublt you realise that it is an open forum where any body can express their views. We do not have any control on what people say in these forums.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Bilal Hussain
>
>Technical Support
>support@totalise.net

One of my responses:

"In case you are lax in your own policy please let me print this from your own webpage:

"Totalise Anti Spam Policy
A Totalise user will be in breach of the Totalise anti spam policy if:
They use a Totalise email account to send email to a recipient who has either not requested it or has no relationship with the sender.
They post information on discussion forums that are of a commercial nature or clearly of no interest to the existing participants of the forum.
Action Totalise Will Take to Prevent Spam
When two independent complaints about a spam incident have been received by Totalise plc we will investigate the alleged incident(s). If we find that the Totalise anti spam policy has been breached we will take action to prevent further breaches.
The Internet users who report a spam incident will be informed that we are making investigations into the alleged incident. They will be kept informed of any actions that we take as a result of the investigation. At no point will his or her information be made available to anyone other than those directly involved in the investigation.

[etc,etc]

Any instances of spamming should be reported to: abuse@totalise.net"
--------------------------------------------- http://www.totalise.net/support/spam_policy.htm

Please write to these guys about this abuser. If several of us write, they have no choice but to at least investigate this matter, and if enough of us write, they will probably ban him.

[pga]

Good idea!

here was my email:


I am writing to complain about online harassment and Spam posted by a user of yours to a forum I frequent. The user I am reporting is: jholloway@totalise.co.uk

The forums on windrivers.com are for technicians and others to assist each other in finding solutions to computer hardware and software related problems. This site is a valuable resource to Technician throughout the world and this users posts are not welcome here. I am quite certain that the following statements posted by him violate your Terms of Service:

"Topic: Stupid people get what they deserve!!!!!!!"

"NO sh&* its not. Well I could have told you that myself newgirl."

"I do not want gay boys replying to my request. Obviously there are a few amateurs here. Are there any experts???"

"I knew there was an expert somewhere in Windrivers it is just a shame you have to rumage through the waste first"

"What a bunch of Muppets stupid people"

"See what I mean, uneducated!!! What a laugh"

"What is with the stupid quotes you put at the end of your replies? Is it to make up for your lack of intellect? Do you have to try and sound intellectual?"

"Oh look a guy who spends all his time with his todger stuck in the computer. Sad"

"the truth is my ISP gives me shares for every time I receive e-mails and since I could not send e-mails to myself, you have done it for me. I am now 100 shares better of thanks to you guys! If I asked nicely nobody would have done it. I guess with a good education behind me you can think up brilliant ideas. So long losers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The above comments made by this user are not only harassing, but also not on topic of the forums on windrivers.com Apparently some forum members received threatening emails from this individual also.

Please address this situation as soon as you can as we have tried to stop him/block him, but it has now become a childish game for this person.

Thank you,
(name, phone, web, etc ommitted for this post, but was in e-mail)

[NPaladin]

Originally posted by Revenant:
Their Response:

>From: support@totalise.net
>Reply-To:
>To: irevenant@hotmail.com
>Subject: Update:EX053374
>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 00 22:31:40
>
>Dear Joshua
>
>I am sorry that you have experienced difficulty with your forum. No doublt you realise that it is an open forum where any body can express their views. We do not have any control on what people say in these forums.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Bilal Hussain
>
>Technical Support
>support@totalise.net

One of my responses:

"In case you are lax in your own policy please let me print this from your own webpage:

"Totalise Anti Spam Policy
A Totalise user will be in breach of the Totalise anti spam policy if:
They use a Totalise email account to send email to a recipient who has either not requested it or has no relationship with the sender.
They post information on discussion forums that are of a commercial nature or clearly of no interest to the existing participants of the forum.
Action Totalise Will Take to Prevent Spam
When two independent complaints about a spam incident have been received by Totalise plc we will investigate the alleged incident(s). If we find that the Totalise anti spam policy has been breached we will take action to prevent further breaches.
The Internet users who report a spam incident will be informed that we are making investigations into the alleged incident. They will be kept informed of any actions that we take as a result of the investigation. At no point will his or her information be made available to anyone other than those directly involved in the investigation.

[etc,etc]

Any instances of spamming should be reported to: abuse@totalise.net"

They might not care...there's a few that don't. THen again, this guy might work there, you know?



------------------
Bryan Pizzuti
CompTIA A+, CNAP
bpizzuti@earthlink.net

[ibennetch]

I'm with you AD (and others) 200%. this type of behavior is simply outragious. I am writing a email to his isp as well, hopefully the numerous complaints will have some effect. if not; hey, it's their company's reputation on the line. it's not like we're all Joe AOL here.
way to go, AlienDyne

[ibennetch]

<QUOTE>
"the truth is my ISP gives me shares for every time I receive e-mails and since I could not send e-mails to myself, you have done it for me. I am now 100 shares better of thanks to you guys!<QUOTE>

seems to me this should be illegal. Anyone in the UK know anything about the legality of this?

[Revenant]

I believe here in the US it is illegal, as a company is being investigated for improper trading practices. To legally trade shares a company has to be registered with the exchange. And since these companies have made no public offering, it is not quite a legal practice. I'll have to find the articles I read on this.

------------------
Do one thing everyday that scares you.
Do two things everyday that scare the bejesus out of someone else.

[ibennetch]

here's my submission to their mailbox pile-up if anyone cares to read it:
Hello, I am writing to inform you of the abuse of a discussion forum by one of your members, jholloway@totalise.co.uk. This person uses the alias of TechUK. You can find some of his demeaning comments at the following links: http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000027.html http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000033.html http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000032.html
although to save you the trouble I will quote some of his comments:

"I do not want gay boys replying to my request. Obviously there are a few amateurs here. Are there any experts???"

"Topic: Stupid people get what they deserve!!!!!!!"

"What a bunch of Muppets stupid people"

"What is with the stupid quotes you put at the end of your replies? Is it to make up for your lack of intellect? Do you have to try and sound intellectual?"

"Oh look a guy who spends all his time with his todger stuck in the computer. Sad"

"NO sh&* its not. Well I could have told you that myself newgirl."

"I knew there was an expert somewhere in Windrivers it is just a shame you have to rumage through the waste first"

"See what I mean, uneducated!!! What a laugh"

Not only that but he reports that you [totalise.net] give him shares to receive emails:

"the truth is my ISP gives me shares for every time I receive e-mails and since I could not send e-mails to myself, you have done it for me. I am now 100 shares better of thanks to you guys! If I asked nicely nobody would have done it. I guess with a good education behind me you can think up brilliant ideas. So long losers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

This practice, at the very least, is not a very savvy way to operate a business, and in all probability is illegal. Giving someone shares of a company to receive email of course breeds behavior such as jholloway is demonstrating here. Not only this, but no company can remain the "best customer service...of any Internet Service Provider" by allowing their users to abuse any kind of reward-for-email program. It clearly is not in your best interest to allow this to continue, not only are you souring your company name and presence, but loosing money on the exploitations of people like jholloway.

We techs on the WinDrivers forums are here to help each other with problems, but we do not take kindly to insults against us, the board moderators, or other members.

I appreciate your time and effort in this matter.

[name and email removed for this posting but included in the email]


'course if they're really crooked they'll jusrt sell all our names to their own spammers anyway.

[CREEPINGDEATH]

Originally posted by pga:
hehehe... cool.... yu da man AlienDyne. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by pga (edited December 11, 2000).]

Was that in the chat room?

or in one of the posts?

------------------
~If you can't walk the walk don't even try to talk the talk~

[pga]

Originally posted by ibennetch:
<QUOTE>
"the truth is my ISP gives me shares for every time I receive e-mails and since I could not send e-mails to myself, you have done it for me. I am now 100 shares better of thanks to you guys!<QUOTE>

seems to me this should be illegal. Anyone in the UK know anything about the legality of this?

ummm... the 15 year old kid (TechUK) was most likely BS'ing .... so the proper route wouldn't be the legality of that, but the legality of SPAM....

Technically, I believe his parents would be responsible for his SPAM in the US or UK. And if his ISP does not repsond to his excessive SPAM, threats, and online harassment, they would also be liable.

If the kids (TechUK's) ISP has been notified, as well as the child himself... I believe that windrivers can actually file a lawsuit against the parents of the child (TechUK) and the ISP. Odds are that windrivers would win by using IP logs. Suing for damages and legal fess to both the parents of the child and the ISP for allowing the child to continue SPAMMING and harassing without making an attempt to stop him would be an easy case if he posts again through that ISP.

[This message has been edited by pga (edited December 11, 2000).]

[pga]

Originally posted by CREEPINGDEATH:
Was that in the chat room?

or in one of the posts?



it was in three separate topics in the forums that he started.

[AlienDyne]

I would like to thank all of you who read this topic and agreed about keeping up the good work.

I also would like to thank everyone who took the time to notify that user's ISP.
You've been more than helpful guys!

CREEPINGDEATH, you can check it yourself. Here are the links: http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000027.html
http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000032.html
http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/Forum33/HTML/000033.html

In case something similar happens, I'd like to be notified by you guys. You can email me anytime. Just in case I miss something!



------------------
"Matter is passive. In spite of its power, it can't be controlled without the human mind." Sokrates

My Hardware Info, Hardware Media and Computer History page (http://www.geocities.com/alienhardware)

[ibennetch]

[me]

Thank you for pointing this out to us.Your complaint is currently being
dealt with accordingly.

Regards
[some tech-support person]
[his email]

[3fingersalute]

I sent an email to them also, but no sense me posting it here, it basically said the same thing everybody else's did.

Doubt anything will ever come from them though!

------------------
Why do convenience stores that are open 24/7 have locks on the doors?

[pga]

Originally posted by 3fingersalute:
Doubt anything will ever come from them though!



probably not.... but it made me feel all tingly inside when i sent the email to his ISP.....

[ibennetch]

well, now I got what I feel is a rather indifferenet and mean reply from some fellow named Garth who reports that
1) this deal with the 'shares' is a lie, and
2) he and his company have no interest in shutting down this user. so much for anti-spam policy. I wonder how accurate Revenant's thoughts about legal action by windrivers are (or any of use techs for that matter). I for one think that if they're going to have that type of policy they should enforce it. That's called lying here in the US

[ibennetch]

Originally posted by 3fingersalute:
I sent an email to them also, but no sense me posting it here, it basically said the same thing everybody else's did.

Doubt anything will ever come from them though!




I know, I know...I've tried this before and never had any luck...but it's the whole fact that he's on WinDrivers - I'm taking this one personally, and I want to see something done about it !
[okay; i'm done ranting now]

[Digi-Recon]

I don't normally read anything else but the Tech Tales, I love the humor. Any way, I'm glad some one mentioned this problem. I checked out the posts that "whats his face" made. First, if he had an actually problem he should have contacted Microsoft. Second, "whozzit" is just a flamer. I'm not going to give the repect of mentioning his handle. That boy was just rude. I do have to applaude Darren for being a better man than me for helping him. I wouldn't have done it, and probably would tell 'em where he could go to. Or just ignore 'em.

------------------
From the dark of night, comes... WHAT DO YOU MEAN INVALID PAGE FAULT!!

[This message has been edited by Digi-Recon (edited December 12, 2000).]

[Revenant]

First, addressing the suing issue. As far as I know, no laws have been broken by any party. (I didn't even suggest a lawsuit, so please don't attribute it to me! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif ) Removing a user from their services is a mostly a point of honor, of good business on most ISP's side. I have had several abusive users removed from ISP's b/c of spam and refusal to stop spamming. Totalise's refusal to remove him shows that this company does not stand behind their company policy of customer support. I have made it my mission to get this guy removed. I will find the head of their company's email address and give it to all of you to send an email to him personally. I doubt he's been informed of this bout of inaction. Furthermore I have received no more emails from them regarding the last two email I have sent. I urge all of you NOT to try to threaten or cajole them into removing him if you continue to email. PGA, please email me, I have an idea for you. heheheh... hold on, I'll email you. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif
Second, they definitely did offer shares on the internet: please read the following link:
http://freespace.zeed.co.uk/seanym/totalise.htm
However, they would be reluctant to get rid of this guy b/c they would in theory have to buy him out of his shares... If this is not a legitimate share offering, then they would not want to admit it so soon, would they?

It does not look like this hoser got shares based on email traffic. I will update you on my quest.

------------------
Do one thing everyday that scares you.
Do two things everyday that scare the bejesus out of someone else.

[Revenant]

They say they won awards and are a member of the ISPA. They are listed. I think we should forward all of our complaints at this time to the ISPA and see how totalise will respond. http://www.ispa.org.uk/html/current_members_list.asp

[This message has been edited by Revenant (edited December 12, 2000).]

[furlong47]

Does anyone else see something strange going on here? They will not remove this user yet it is clearly stated in their terms of service:

"3.5 You must not use the Totalise Free Services in any manner that may constitute a criminal offence or may provide grounds for a civil court case against you, or Totalise Plc, or any third party. You must not upload, transmit or download any message or material that:

(a) is defamatory, racist or sexist, threatening or menacing to any person or group of people, or contains any obscene elements (in particular, anything which is or could be interpreted as paedophilia), or which in the reasonable opinion of Totalise Plc is likely to cause annoyance or distress to any person....
you must not send any unsolicited e-mails to persons unknown to you ("spamming"). If you breach this Clause 3.5 in any way, we will be entitled to terminate provision of the Totalise Free Services to you immediately and to delete the offending message or material from the Totalise Free Services. We will also be entitled to report certain uses that we suspect may be criminal to the police - in fact, we are required by law to do this - or other authorities. We reserve the right provide your contact details to any person who complains to us about any use by you of the Totalise Free Services which in our opinion is not consistent with these Terms and Conditions."

I dunno about you, but I'm a more than a little annoyed and distressed by his behavior http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif


------------------
"640 K ought to be enough for anybody."
--Bill Gates, 1981

Amateur Radio Callsign KB3FHH

[unikey]

Originally posted by pga:
snip
Technically, I believe his parents would be responsible for his SPAM in the US or UK. And if his ISP does not repsond to his excessive SPAM, threats, and online harassment, they would also be liable.
snip
[This message has been edited by pga (edited December 11, 2000).]


Sorry PGA completely legal overhere unless he makes defamatory comments about a real and identifiable person (specifically excludes nicknames) in an enviroment where his standing would cause actual loss to the person or persons defamed

Simon

[Revenant]

debunking free stock issues.
http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/nothing/stock.htm#add

Click on the link at the bottom to the SEC investigation

Now, like I said, I don't know if these guys are legally registered to trade in the UK, but given the fact that they are denying it to us, then I would think something fishy is going on. But, that's just me.

[Damned Angel]

(a) is defamatory, racist or sexist, threatening or menacing to any person or group of people, or contains any obscene elements (in particular, anything which is or could be interpreted as paedophilia), or which in the reasonable opinion of Totalise distress to any person....[/b]Plc is [b]likely to cause annoyance or
you must not send any unsolicited e-mails to persons unknown to you ("spamming"). If you breach this Clause 3.5 in any way, we will be entitled to terminate provision of the Totalise Free Services to you immediately and to delete the offending message or material from the Totalise Free Services.

Did he not send e-mails threatning to mail bomb you guys? That would fall under both A and B ,threatning and caused you great distress (should i open my mail, what if I really did get bombed?)

[pga]

Originally posted by unikey:

Sorry PGA completely legal overhere unless he makes defamatory comments about a real and identifiable person (specifically excludes nicknames) in an enviroment where his standing would cause actual loss to the person or persons defamed

Simon


funny thing... i did a search on altavista with the following search terms:

online harassment spam law UK

and the #7 ranking was: http://www.totalisetelecom.net/terms.htm

i thought this was funny as 7734!!

aside from the whole page, check out section 6.3

[3fingersalute]

Here is there reply to the email I sent:

I have been passed your comments regarding a Totalise E-mail user.
After looking at the posts made by jholloway I can only suggest that the moderators of WinDrivers take action against this user.
We have over 150,000 registered users and policing them outside their actual use of Totalise services is an impossible task. If the user used a Totalise mail address to directly spam or send offensive material then we would suspend his account.
I do understand the frustration when you get an annoying flame war going on in a reputable newsgroup/forum, but again I would suggest the owner of the forum takes appropriate action. The forum in question I notice is using UBB software - This software can be configured to a high degree to automatically remove words of an abusive nature and as I have noticed the user has already warranted a ban from the forum.
May I also add that Totalise users do not in any way receive incentives for sending/receiving e-mail - This statement from Mr Holloway was I believe a means to continue aggravating the users of the WinDrivers Forum


Best Regards and I hope your forum returns to a peaceful posting arena...

Garth McMullan
Systems Admin/ Infrastructure Mgr.


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Why do convenience stores that are open 24/7 have locks on the doors?

[3fingersalute]

If you look at the above reply, he said they would suspend them if he had used a Totalise email address (althought that's not what there spam policy states!)...so if anybody got email directly from him, forward it to them to look at, then they will HAVE to suspend his account!

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Why do convenience stores that are open 24/7 have locks on the doors?

[This message has been edited by 3fingersalute (edited December 12, 2000).]

[Darren Wilson]

After reading the previous posts, I can honestly say that it is a waste of time complaining to the 'larger' ISP's in the UK , at least, regarding Spam or abusive behaviour. I have had similar probs on other forums and they are just not interested in the slightest and recommend that the individuals involved sort it out between themselves regardless of what the terms & conditions say. Unfortunatly this is something that we will have to suffer as companies don't give a monkeys about hassles caused by a minority.

Speaking of Spam, how many of you members out there who have Hotmail accounts, keep recieving Spam from other Hotmail users that just goes undealt with by the Hotmail staff!!! I know I get at least 3 or 4 a day and nobody has my Hotmail address!!!!!

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The Webs Number One Resource for Today's Carp Angler.

[ibennetch]

Originally posted by Revenant:
First, addressing the suing issue. As far as I know, no laws have been broken by any party. (I didn't even suggest a lawsuit, so please don't attribute it to me! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif )


you're right, I'm horribly sorry. It was pga I meant and you are also correct in the lawsuit as opposed to suing. I guess finals week is getting to me.

[Revenant]

ibennetech: no prob... I'm just not a lawsuit happy kindof person. Too much of it goes on. I've had several chances at it, but you know, too often people look at lawsuits as winning the lottery. "Hey! I fuond a hair in my soup! I'm gonna be a millionaire!" This is precisely why we have instructions on how to open a can of coke. Why McDonald's coffee says "Contents may be hot." Not b/c the individual was so dumb they couldn't figure it out, but instead b/c they saw it as a get rich quick scheme, and, unfortunately, succeeded.

Darren: this is my first company in the UK where I've had an issue like this. I have dealt with several companies here in the US who as soon as you mention the possibility of spam, they drop the user. So I guess I'm a little spoiled. As far as Hotmail goes, I use the Inbox protector, and on my real hotmail account, I get very little spam. (I just block senders I don't like, I figure it costs them in bandwidth to keep sending me messages, so why remove my addy...) As far as who it's from, it's pretty random, and most of it's from supposed opt-in email services, which is funny, cuz I always clear the opt-in BS. oh well. Spam is unfortunately a part of life. Since I got a free email account, hotmail, I don't jealously guard my inbox like I once used to. However, I will jealously guard forums that I think are worthwhile. There are only two of these that I have found, Windrivers and UltimateJeep (for my heep, babeee) When someone jumps on one of these forums, esp a tech assist related forum, and bashes people who offer up valid and pertinent information, regardless of whether it was the exact problem, I get offended. Anyone who thinks there is only one solution for any given circumstance, described in only a few words, obviously hasn't been out in the real world very much. I hope noone takes offense (offence, for you brits? heheheh) at me for taking this one personally and declaring vendetta. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif
Anyway, that's just my view.

[MVanDyken]

Pick your battles wisely. This kid is not worth it.

[NPaladin]

Originally posted by ibennetch:
well, now I got what I feel is a rather indifferenet and mean reply from some fellow named Garth who reports that
1) this deal with the 'shares' is a lie, and
2) he and his company have no interest in shutting down this user. so much for anti-spam policy. I wonder how accurate Revenant's thoughts about legal action by windrivers are (or any of use techs for that matter). I for one think that if they're going to have that type of policy they should enforce it. That's called lying here in the US

Ya know, somehow I had a feeling about this one...that they wouldn't care and all. Number 1: They're a free ISP, and probably overloaded, which means they're probably slower than you would believe. That means they have to give their subscribers some leeway in order to keep them and sell advertising.
Number 2: There are several ISPs that just don't give a d*mn, no matter what their users (a big one that comes to mind is AOL...if you haven't noticed, when using IRC all the guys with pingflooders and nukers are using AOL, because it'll screen out anything but a triple pingflood from a broadband or higher connection....it acts as a firewall.) I think this Totalize.net falls in that category too...some ISPs just realize their place and sort of cater to the spammers and hackers, and pretty much ignore the "terms of service" that they're usually required to have by law. See, while they're required to HAVE them, they're usually NOT required to ENFORCE them....and in the instances that they are required to do so, laws don't specify how.
Welcome to the real world of commercial big buisness. Best thing we can do is set up a filter on his e-mail address in both our mailboxes and on this BBS. Then when he's not getting attention anymore, he'll go away. Guys like that LIVE on attention...they don't get it, they go somewhere else and look for it.


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Bryan Pizzuti
CompTIA A+, CNAP
bpizzuti@earthlink.net

[Schui]

I agree that flaming in these posts is not acceptable. People visit here to either ask for help, give help, or generally find things out.. the last thing needed is people popping in for an argie...
I'm on this site ALL DAY at work, as there's nout else to do.... love it, and couldn't live without it.... (i think..!£"*^!:)

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A General Protection Error has occured - Time to go home...

[pga]

Originally posted by Darren Wilson:
After reading the previous posts, I can honestly say that it is a waste of time complaining to the 'larger' ISP's in the UK , at least, regarding Spam or abusive behaviour.


actually... this whole thing with TechUK was really just a waste of time.... and it looks like it is pretty much over with anyhow, as he has not contiued posting.

In the end... he got want he wanted... to get to us, to raise a big stink and cause a problem on the forum with him being the center of attention.

[pga]

Originally posted by Revenant:
ibennetech: no prob... I'm just not a lawsuit happy kindof person. Too much of it goes on. I've had several chances at it, but you know, too often people look at lawsuits as winning the lottery. "Hey! I fuond a hair in my soup! I'm gonna be a millionaire!"


but isn't it the Amercian way??? http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif

[kornesque]

yeah, i reckon he's pretty happy about all the goings on here and we should just drop it. i only found out about the whole issue an hour ago and read every post on it. that's alot of attention we gave that guy, but i guess we learned alot about antispam clauses and incompetent ISPs. knowledge is power!
-drew

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I just don't understand stop signs...aren't vehicles made to, well...GO???

[Jvaguy]

i been a member for quite some time (i was un registered for a good while) and ive seen all this crap over and over .. you know one day its gonna be gone or pay (which i would do not saying that i want to though), this is a free place to pass ideas and thoughts and be able to meet people of our same kind (and sadly unlike us in this kid) I have personally found enjoying seeing posts from alein, to pga etc.. and would hate to see this place go cause of stupid people making it bad for us. You know its kinda like our jobs, we hate the crap people give us when were there to help them, it seems people forget this is a place for ANYONE to come to and get information on computers to a good laugh and i fully support alein for what was done .. we need to let people know were not a toy to mess with AND we are a great bunch of people !!!!

now back to your fav tv show



[This message has been edited by Jvaguy (edited December 14, 2000).]