Your opinion about hackers......

[klenard]

So, what is your opinion on hackers. Are they just pre-pubescent kids starved for attention? Or are they a bunch of *ssholes, that have nothing better to do than mess everyones day up. My personal opinion is that I hate them. I think thay are stoopid kids that are crying out for attention.... Hack the Earth.......yeah right. Why not put their computer skills to good use rather than trying to mess up everything from the economy to peoples personal website.

------------------
Some days you are the dog, some days you are the Hydrant.

[StevePorter]

It's the "thrill of the chase", you know? I can't figure what else could motivate them... http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm3.gif

------------------
Sometimes computer problems require extreme measures. Our hero, the Intrepid Spaceman Spiff, sets his blaster on "deep fat fry..." http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm27.gif

[Danrak]

It depends what kind you are talking about.

You have the classic "script kiddies" that download "ready-made" hacking tools. If you keep your system updated you don't have worry about them.

You have the people that will hack for money, or other personal greedy reasons. Some of them fall into the "script kiddie" catagory, others are more knowledgeable. I think they are wasteing their skills. They don't seem to have the love for knowledge that is need to be really great.

Then you have the people that do it for the knowledge and explore. This are usually the smartest of all since they are driven by the love/want of knowledge. For the most part they will not do damage to your system. I personally think that they would like to tell the sysadmin of the network about their security holes if they were not afraid of being thrown in jail.

That is just my personaly opion, you do have the right to disagree or agree if you please.

------------------
.·°Danrak°·.
I possess a mind not merely twisted, but actually sprained.

[iamtheman]

Danrak, you just about hit the money on that one. There's a big difference in "Script Kiddie's", hackers, crackers, phreakers, the list goes on and on.

------------------
Born to Network

[SavagePenguin]

When I was younger I had a certain fascination with hacking and the hacking community. It was sort of a big secret club, where the unpopular had power and a sort of prestiege. I never did it, but I would have loved to have been a part of them.

A lot of hackers are geeky kids with an inferiority complex who try to make themselves feel powerful by harming others. Also, they gain a sense of acceptance from their hacker friends. Often they can't get peer acceptance in the "real world."

There's also the "hunt and conquor" aspect of it. It's a challenge. It's a big, dangerous (yet safe) puzzle. Kids pit themselves against large corporations, and sometimes win. What a rush.

I think most hackers do it, at least in part, for the sport. I think most also thrive on the empowerment/peer acceptance aspects. Saying that they do it to learn and teach others is simply the best excuse thay can come up with.

A minority of hackers are simply viscious. They're techno-bullies who enjoy harassing others.

[hugheysoup]

I think that it is in the gray area. I think the only good that comes from it is companys must provide a better quality product or service. For the most part I think that hackers are treding very close if not there, to being criminals. Those activties that are close to being criminal behavior are taking information and defacing web sites or making them go down.
To me this is a lot like stealing and destruction of property.

------------------
I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that do not work. - Thomas Edison

[This message has been edited by hugheysoup (edited February 05, 2001).]

[evilcabbage]

its a *big* gray area methinks.

Most of the people that pop into my mind at the moment, are script kiddies, and love to think of themselves as l33t haX0rz. It makes me wish I had a handgun license, cos they really piss me off.

On the flipside, we used to have a fella here, that was just driven by the urge to know how things 'ticked'. Incredibly smart guy, and I would be scared of what he could do if he was maliscious. Good thing he was on *our* side http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif

------------------
Its like shooting fish in a barrel, in the head, at point blank range, with an elephant gun.

[LabRat]

Right on with most of the posts here. Hacking in and of itself is a harmless pursuit that leads to improved understanding of how an object/idea works. I've known hackers who set up various scenarios on a three plus system LAN in their living room and procede to test strategies and theories. That knowledge has translated into modifications of their home software for enhanced entertainment (I love nuking barny and the energizer bunny) as well as faster resolution for their projects at work. Damaging other peoples properties/reputations/credit rating/ etc. is hacking, yet it's also willful destruction of property. I do feel that, if a flaw is observed in a network/website is discoverred, that individual is obligated to let the admin know to prevent mischeif. Sadly, too many people hate to have flaws they take personally pointed out to them and would sooner damage the informant for noticing it in the first place.

Just my $0.02

Out of curiousity, what qualifies as a hacker besides the insatiable curiousity to know? If it is only the curiousity factor, wouldn't Benjamen Franklin and Thomas Edison qualify? Without them we wouldn't even have our quirky little friends.

------------------
If you make a smarter computer, the user will find a subtler hammer.

[joey3k]

I plan on shutting the entire internet down one day via hacking the mainframe and blowing it to bits by sending it a self distruct command because I have nothing better to do.

heeheheh


------------------
PCCHIPS, the way of the future.

[CobraTekMax]

Trust me, guys, there is a whole lot more money in hacking than any "legit" computer business, if you know what you're doing and have the right connections. I know a guy who has helped people clear their debt, change their identity and even fake their own deaths by wiping all public records of any proof of their existence. He can pretty much name his price for any of these tasks.

Hackers I have no ill toward, as this friend of mine has done me for than a few favors. Script kiddies are a different story, just a bunch of punks, nothing more than hacker wanna-bes.

------------------
"I'm not the one who's so far away when I feel the snake bite enter my veins."

[pumpkinhead77]

Well, in my opinion its what you do with your hacking skills that count more than anything, white hats (good clean legal hackers) are ok but the blackhat (aka *******s that screw stuff up) aren't. I admit i like to play hacker war games from time to time just to test myself to see what i can do but when you start trying to screw stuff up you're just being an immature little B!T(H. But hey, thats my opinion

------------------
If it's not broken....Fix it!

[DaOnly123Kid]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by StevePorter:
It's the "thrill of the chase", you know? I can't figure what else could motivate them... http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm3.gif

</font>

sounds like you are talking from experience... just kidding



------------------
What do you mean...I have an inbox....the trashcan on my desk labeled "IN"

[captpackrat]

"Hackers" or "Crackers"?

I'm an old-timer in computers; to me a "Hacker" is someone who "enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations" (Jargon File, "hacker", definition 7)

A Hacker doesn't attempt to cause damage or disrupt systems, and usually don't attempt to break into systems, they are only interested in improving or expanding the capabilities of existing equipment or programming. I consider myself a 'hacker' in that I am always tinkering with equipment, trying to make it run better or faster (For instance, I've 'hacked' a sewing machine to give it more needle patterns that it was designed for).

A Cracker, on the other hand, is someone who breaks into system, steals passwords and ID's, etc. Script Kiddies usually fall under this catagory. Most have very little in the way of actual skill, and couldn't program their way out of a LOGO box.... (And then there's "Phreaker", which isn't used too often anymore, since blue boxes are pretty much obsolete)


Sorry, I'm just one of those nit-pickers from days of long ago, when being called a "Hacker" was considered a good thing.... http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/wink.gif

------------------
Captain Troy D. Pack Rat
`akbar Press

If you're furry and you know it, hug the mouse! (http://captainpackrat.dynip.com)

[SNAFU]

Hackers search for usefull knowledge. "Script kiddies" are children who take Proggies and put them to ill-use. "Crackers" have nothing better to do and believe the world owed them something. I never FULLY understood how much damage one could do to a company till I worked for one. And because I do, I hate messing with the Trojans, Viruses, and damage they all cause. You want to make a program that will ping flood a network to test net traffic. Wonderful. Use it to DOS or ping flood someone off the internet. That's just friggin' lame. Go play with your barbie dolls or super mario games (not that i have anything against Mario)
I'm venting and could rant for pages. COmes down to this. Hackers are intellectuals who thirst for knowledge. Crackers, script kiddies, phreakers, etc. Hate them. "Hacker" shouldn't be a word to be feared or hated. If anything...it should be a compliment.
I'm a young programmer. ANd many a time have I been called a hacker at my company, just because I know alternate ways to do things like access the mailserver (Telnet? Crap people, it's not that hard. IF anything..they should already KNOW how to use it!!), and stuff like that.
I just hate the term hacker being used out of context and being used as a term for immature kids and greedy lazy computer nerds whose knowledge would make them an incredible contribution to the world of Computer Science.

SOrry for the rant. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm21.gif

------------------
*cough*cough*...that's supposed to happen!

[NeuromancerIV]

I think the term "hacker" is so overused that the term has lost its meaning. I'm old enough to remember the "golden days" before the advent of web browsers, true GUI's and Windows. What I remember about the community was groups of people who got together to share knowledge...how do things work? and why? This information was from anything from computers, to telco's, ham radio, understanding the LAW, police, calculators, networks and how to circumvent them if neccessary. Of course there are those who enoyed the thrill of going into "forbidden" areas of govt, college, friends computers, but did nothing other than maybe leaving a calling card. Then there were/are those with for nefarious purposes. But you had to know how things worked, there was little in the way of ready made Utilities, it was mostly info passed from person to person. Now anyone who can go to hackers.com and DL a bunch of UTs and be a hacker/cracker. Well, thats just the way it is now, just another fad.. while the older Black Hats and White Hats and Ronins watched as the former Underground became the latest trend. But isn't that what always happens?

"Information may be obvious, knowledge is not always readily apparent."

[cyberhh]

This is somewhat of a silly question - why not ask "Do you like Bank Robbers? How about drive by gang bangers?" - please note this is not intended to be a flame of any sort - simply a poorly worded question. i have an intense dislike for someone who gets their rocks off raping another human beings hard work for any reason that does not directly promote happiness, health, change and freedom of knowledge, or making the world a uniformilly better place for all of us to live. With that said - script kiddies, and your run of the milll hacker, phreaker, cracker, retail pirate, etc. who hacks to be "kooool" or for profit is as much a waste of perfectly good skin and bones as a murderer or drug dealer and should be dealt with in the same way, however a few case of hacking I find to be quite amusing and while still harmful did they did not profit from it in any way (finiancially) and istead in some cases have also provided a fix for the very hole that they discovered. NOTE: this is very rare as are those people with the high level of knowledge required to do the advanced hacking required to "beat the system" - this is beginning to ramble and loose it's focus so I will just stop. Sorry

------------------
Death is lighter than a feather - duty heavier than a mountian.

[Khameleon]

Frankly, my opinion of crackers depends upon the target. People who prey on individuals for personal gain are obviously a threat. However, we live in a world where corporations will do everything and anything they (il)legally can to eliminate our personal freedoms in the name of capitalism. It will become more and more important as time goes on for us as citizens to take a stand. Crackers and hackers may become our only defense against their greed. This may sound paranoid, but a healthy dose of paranoia is far better to have than a heaping helping of naivete`.

------------------
"You call it a new way of thinking...I call it professional ignorance." - Op Ivy - Take Warning

[scout970]

i have to agree with captpackrat
as i am also an "old time" hardware hacker remember soldering the extra sid chips on the commodore 64/128 to get stereo output of "building" a interface to use a internal isa modem with a rs-232 port there's a big differance just my 2 cents worth god i feel old http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm30.gif

[parning]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by evilcabbage:
Most of the people that pop into my mind at the moment, are script kiddies, and love to think of themselves as l33t haX0rz.</font>

Um... pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does "l33t haX0rz" mean? I've seen it around, but maybe I'm just too darned old...... http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm14.gif

------------------
Required Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are my own and not those of my employer.

[Danrak]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by parning:
Um... pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does "l33t haX0rz" mean? I've seen it around, but maybe I'm just too darned old......</font>
Its the script kiddies trying to say they are eleet hackers. Somehow changing letters into numbers and capitalizing every other letter is supposed to show that they are smart. I never really figured it out. If you good/smart/"eleet" then people will know, no need to brag about it.


------------------
.·°Danrak°·.
I possess a mind not merely twisted, but actually sprained.

[J189]

have you heard about that hacking contest some company has (forgot the name) but anyways they invite the best hackers to hack thier security system, and if they can they get money (forgot the amount also) I guess last year they couldn't get through, and i never heard about this years results, but anyways thats a good kind of hacking, where companys can find out how to make stuff securer, and most hackers would be happy to point out a flaw in a server, if they were not afraid of being arrested, but then there are those putz's of hackers who would just like to break stuff, and usually do a good job of it too!!

[AlienDyne]

Just some kids who have nothing more interesting to do than using the Assembly language (especially the DOS Interrupts part) to crack some programs or invate websites!

------------------
"Matter is passive. In spite of its power, it can't be controlled without the human mind." - Sokrates

My Hardware Info, Hardware Media and Computer History page (http://www.geocities.com/alienhardware)

[jrwilson]

Hacker -(n)- Any person who derives joy from discovering ways to circumvent limitations.

'nuff said

------------------
"Don't hate the media....BECOME the media!!" Jello Biafra - Dead Kennedys

[il duce]

http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm10.gif Me, I blame the damn internet. When we were kids, we didnt have it, so we had to find more creative means of mischief.
Honestly, who here remembers tipping cows, burning bags of poop, crank calls, skipping school to go play pool. Kids these days have no *****ion, they have way too much faith in themselves,hacking...phreaking...smurfing... my ***.
Most of these l33t hackerz need a swift kick in the azz.

Noooo, ranting like my dear ole da.. in the old country... no cable... 10miles to school... uphill.... both ways!
Sorry just needed to vent a smite, not enough violent lan games lately I geuss.

------------------
"If putting people through tables is wrong... Than I don't Want to be right!"

[n8dawg]

there is nothing wrong with a Hacker or tha knowledlge they have or can do it when they use this info to do damage to other things that tends to piss people off. i dont care what people have on there computers so i dont mess with trying to get in to other peoples computer but if i get a program that i think could better serve me by me hacking tha program or web site than i will do it i do not hurt anything be doing this i just make things work for me... tha kiddies out there are not even at the level or menaltiy of a hacker these are tha b!tchaz that give hackarZ a bad name. it is real easy to be a kiddie to mess people up so a lot of people get in GOD mode and think they are all mighty when all they realy know what to do is download and use a program alreay made for them. anyway thats my nickle

[Coffee_Head]

I was going to post a reply....But, by the time I got to the bottom of page 1, I agreed with most of the posts, especially Danrak.
. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm2.gif
See Dick. See Dick hack. See Dick hack and mess things up for the rest of us. Dont be a Dick.

"Hello guano. Does poop ring a bell?"

[captpackrat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by parning:
Um... pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does "l33t haX0rz" mean? I've seen it around, but maybe I'm just too darned old...... </font>

See http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/Lamer-speak.html

------------------
Captain Troy D. Pack Rat
`akbar Press

If you're furry and you know it, hug the mouse! (http://captainpackrat.dynip.com)

[This message has been edited by captpackrat (edited February 08, 2001).]

[window_washer]

Calling "all hackers" anything specific is a lot like calling all blacks, all natives, all gays, all Jews, all women, all insurance salesmen, etc., something specific. There are thousands of people out there-maybe hundreds of thousands-that I would consider "hackers", and I'm quite sure that they are as diverse a bunch as any other group you could name. I myself used to be a hacker (all right, back in the days of BASIC, anyways) and I knew many others; we all had different motivations, skill levels, and modus operandi. The only thing we had in common was that we were all hackers.

Hacking is a skill like reading or Tae Kwon Do. The real question is what the skill is and should be used for.

------------------
There's an exception to every rule, except this one.

[lightman]

I have been on both sides of the coin as both a hacker and a systems administrator. I believe my time as a hacker has made me a beter systems adiministrator and keep close ties to some of my old friends. The script kiddys of today are not really hackers and are nothing but a nuncance

[jodayo]

http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm23.gif Hacker==Media http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm23.gif
It's so ridiculous. Hacker used to mean something along the lines of guru, computer nerd, computer geek, etc. Now, thanks to movies and an overzealous news media, we have a new definition. And, instead of an achievement, it's more of a title... ...a very overused title. How many script kiddies would there be if they had never had the title "hacker" to shoot for? TV would have you believe these "hackers" are omnipotent computer criminals that nothing can stop, when in reality they don't know much more than where to download the latest exploit... I would like to meet one of these omnipotent persons if for no other reason that to see they truly exist. Until then, I just wish the news media hype would just go away. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm7.gif

[jodayo]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Danrak:
Its the script kiddies trying to say they are eleet hackers. Somehow changing letters into numbers and capitalizing every other letter is supposed to show that they are smart.</font>

http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm3.gif ¿WHAT? http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm44.gif

ĵ00 ĵטּ$7 dΘи7 LiЌ3 l337 h4x0rz http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm5.gif

HAHAHAHAHA


http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm32.gif http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm12.gif http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm32.gif http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm12.gif http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm32.gif


Jody.


[This message has been edited by jodayo (edited February 08, 2001).]

[NotaGeek]

It`s REAL simple.
Malicious=Bad http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm10.gif

Quest for Knowledge without intentional harm=Good http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm11.gif
There are lots of benifits from finding "Alternitve" ways of doing things.You just don`t have to trash someones system to do it. Like Labrat mentioned, set up a lab. If you can`t network up a couple of old machines to wreck `em. You shouldn`t be messing around with other people`s stuff.
* * * * Peace * * * *

------------------
Thank you for pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL.... Please try again.

[davidclark]

As a network_admin and teacher, I tire of the childish argurments I hear from hackers.
I know of NO legimate reason to violate another person's rights, perogatives after or space.

I caught one of my students in one of our servers last week. He EARNED a zero for the semester and no, I sure as hell didn't apologize.

------------------
David Clark
Lafayette LA

[talltech]

If your a hacking your own system, or a system whith the owners permission. It's called testing network security.

if u do it without permission it's a crime. I think it really come down to that.

I am no hacker, I do from time to time attempt to attack my bosses network, after all I look after it.

as for anger and revenge, I can understand that side of the fence too.

that my point of view any way

------------------
Life is highway, we all begin and end the same way. But everyones journey it unique

[Who Me]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by talltech:
If your a hacking your own system, or a system whith the owners permission. It's called testing network security.

if u do it without permission it's a crime. I think it really come down to that.

I am no hacker, I do from time to time attempt to attack my bosses network, after all I look after it.

as for anger and revenge, I can understand that side of the fence too.

that my point of view any way

</font>

I couldn't have said it better...

------------------
There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by
reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of
them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

[techman17]

I think as a general rule hackers are harmless people but the media hypes them up to look like hardened criminals. Most hackers just want a challenge or what to learn about a network. For the most part they are harmless, but we only hear about the nasty ones. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm40.gif

------------------
He who gives up liberty for security gains neither --Benjamin Franklin

[chip35]

Hackers used to have a reason to hack 'other' computers a long time ago. It was pretty much the only way to increase knowledge of networks and such. Mind you this was back when computers were incredibly expensive and you would reach the limitations of what you could afford personally. These people would extend their own systems to the limits then look for more. They were not of malicious intent and if you actually noticed that your system had been hacked and/or damage had been done then they would consider this a total screwup of the highest order.
Nowadays when computers are almost a commodity item everyone with a new E-Machine and knows how to read a newsgroup considers themselves a hacker! An old school hacker would not have a reason to "hack the web" so to speak as computing power is much less expensive now than then.
It is analogous to (I know I'm gonna get killed, it's the union way of eliminating dissent) todays Unions as opposed to when they actually had a use. Back when Unions first started it was necessary, now they are merely political tools abused at will.

------------------
What's the differance between 'twisted' and 'torqued' anyways?

[u8drtsox]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SavagePenguin:
When I was younger I had a certain fascination with hacking and the hacking community. It was sort of a big secret club, where the unpopular had power and a sort of prestige. I never did it, but I would have loved to have been a part of them.

A lot of hackers are geeky kids with an inferiority complex who try to make themselves feel powerful by harming others. Also, they gain a sense of acceptance from their hacker friends. Often they can't get peer acceptance in the "real world."

There's also the "hunt and conquer" aspect of it. It's a challenge. It's a big, dangerous (yet safe) puzzle. Kids pit themselves against large corporations, and sometimes win. What a rush.

I think most hackers do it, at least in part, for the sport. I think most also thrive on the empowerment/peer acceptance aspects. Saying that they do it to learn and teach others is simply the best excuse they can come up with.

A minority of hackers are simply viscous. They're techno-bullies who enjoy harassing others.

</font>

Hey Savage,
Where did you get your PHD? http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm1.gif I was one of the popular ones. I helped out the Nerds and "unpopular people" as you put it and protected them from the Jock *******s or Yuppie scumbags that would abuse them. I was kind of like a mix of Judd Nelson, Emilio Esteves and Anthony Michael Hall in Breakfast club so to speak. I followed my own beat per-se. Had a lot of friends. Still do. Well I ended up, back in the early to mid 80's hacked into the school computer in a matter of seconds and messed it up so bad it took them a month to straighten it out. It was the thrill of doing something so simple that took no time or effort at all to see how long it takes for them to straighten it out. I wasn't looking for attention I just loved seeing things break and people panic. Call me sick or twisted fine. I was the original "Bevis" in High School. DESTROY YEAH YEAH HHMM HMMM HHHMMMM HHHMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually fell through the ceiling in High School before Judd Nelson did in Breakfast Club. When we saw it in the movies I stood up and shouted "Hey, They stole that from me". Some guy in the front of the theater stood up and shouted my name and I replied "Hey Dude" and the whole theater just busted out laughing. Now I have grown up and I only destroy when it is necessary. Payback is a bitch I believe the saying goes? Only when it's really necessary though. I had some ******* tech that I used to work with and he thought his sh*t didn't stink and he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well after a few registry modifications and a script or batch file his system was hit, down for the count dead and he couldn't figure out why. He kept cursing Bill Gates for a crappy Operating system. I told him if he would humble himself a bit I would fix it for him but he was too proud and formatted the drive anyway. I have read some of the tech tales in the past and all of you have hacked or phreaked in one way or another. It is a bit annoying when you get hit with a virus but there is so much protection out there from it if you are a good tech and read up on what is out there to protect you against these things then you don't have much to worry about. I have yet to get hit at home with a virus or anything that brings my system down. I once brought home a floppy that had an infected Word Doc but as soon as I put the disk in the drive and clicked it the file was cleaned. Sure you always have to fear some of these things and it is a bit annoying but I don't let it get to me. If you practice good backup measures then you should be OK. I have archives of data on a monthly basis on CD's now because it is so easy and fast and if my system was to get hit with something it is no great loss. I re-format and start again. Well that's all I guess. Just felt I should say we have all done something like this in our past. I'm sure of it so just be prepared and you will be OK.


------------------
If you think I'm standig here as the world goes by. You're thinking like a fool 'cause it's a case of do or die. Out there is a fortune waiting to be had, if you think i'll let it go your mad You've Got Another Thing Coming

[PBase001]

I'll fall on the side that it depends on what is done. But all this hacker old school definition vs new school definition gives me a chuckle. Reminds me of the Trekkie vs Trekker debates. Trekkie is the geek and Trekker is the cool ones. Like the media cares one one or another, they're all geeks. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm16.gif


I'm from way back also and my interests was more into providing a service for the fun of it. I don't mean I hacked, I mean I opened up my own local BBS and posted hard to get files and stuff within my interest. I remember the days when you would open up your Atari400 and put in the new GTIA chip to get better graphics. Now I feel old too. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm32.gif

[rscos]

Isn't the original definition of a hacker as "someone who uses his knowledge to increse his knowledge"

I must confess that I am guilty of script kiddying on IRC where I occasionaly use the more agressive features of the Showdown script to blast annoying people off IRC, but I would never intentionaly damage or try to break into any system unless I had been asked to by the owner/administrator.

[kpataska]

Script kiddies and lamers aside...

Hackers have advanced public knowledge of computers and their operators. True hackers hack only to learn or make something better - "only for good, never for evil."

Hacker is like Kleenex - it's a generic term these days. And that's what's truly too bad...

Kenny P.

[Munch]

I;ve met a lot of people in the industry... And one thing I have learned is that nothing is what it seems... the term "hacker" doesn't fit in my glossary. because it's such a broad term... I think the Webster said that it means "to change"... Well anyways, it always starts out as an innocent thing... I think maybe some people learn about some of the more malicious aspects of -DOS- (denial of service), and maybe the temptation to abuse such power is what throws them looping. It's another one of those catch22 questions... there is no right answer. The only information you could provide could potentially get you in trouble. The reason why there is underground activity is simply because of the "law" portion... It's one of things that, inevitably, you one day will learn how to do. It all depends on how far you are willing to go for X amount of dollars. For some reason everything boils down to some form of politics.

------------------
When they ask you if you have ID, smile and nod :Þ

[rjwilke]

I agree with you regarding script kiddies but your stance supporting or at least tacitly approving of your friends hacking is simply wrong. What if your friend helped a pedophile erase his criminal record so he could obtain employment in a school or some other facility where he could ply his trade again? Falsifying or erasing records as you describe is a crime and your friend is a criminal not some sort of white knight fighting the "Establishment".


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CobraTekMax:
Trust me, guys, there is a whole lot more money in hacking than any "legit" computer business, if you know what you're doing and have the right connections. I know a guy who has helped people clear their debt, change their identity and even fake their own deaths by wiping all public records of any proof of their existence. He can pretty much name his price for any of these tasks.

Hackers I have no ill toward, as this friend of mine has done me for than a few favors. Script kiddies are a different story, just a bunch of punks, nothing more than hacker wanna-bes.

</font>

[Randolph]

Hackers do damage on the net. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm33.gif They deface websites, crack FTP, etc... they do REALLY BAD DAMAGE... but sometimes helpful ... we are able to know the weakness of our PC's ... im very proud of them

------------------
- Randolph - http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm16.gif http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm16.gif

[This message has been edited by Randolph (edited February 09, 2001).]

[k9fto]

I can remember as many do the day of the sinclair color computer and programming it to "roll" dice. We have come along way since then and so has the term Hacker, Phreaker, Cracker, and many other terms associated with computers. I spend hours just trying to stay up on the latest information concerning these persons and when, unfortunately, one deems it necessary to violate US Title 18 I get involved. I spend hours lurkink around finding out who is doing what to whom and so forth. As far as I am concerned, the seek for knowlwedge for knowledge sake is what got us to this level of understanding so far. Depends on the persons intent and outcome, for example,
§6.02. Requirement of culpability.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person does not commit an offense
unless he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence engages in conduct as the definition of the offense requires.

I spend many hours ensuring your safety from people who would do you harm or to that of your family. If for a second they appear to endanger the welfare or safety of you or your system, the line has been crossed and a new chase has begun.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingushible from magic - Arthur C Clarke

------------------
Gary Spurger - Cpl
Tech Services / Computer Crimes Division
Harris County Constables, Precinct 4

[This message has been edited by k9fto (edited February 09, 2001).]

[SCI-CO]

Hacker (PreMedia Definition) - One that knows the interworkings of a computer system. As stateded b4 Hackerz hack to enhance computers be it software or hardware.

Cracker (PreMedia Definition) - Hacker gone bad.

Am I a hacker, (By PreMedia Definition) Yes. Do i brake into other computer systems that are not controld by me, thats its not my game.

And back in the day I remember a little game calld SimCity At the end of the manual it had somthing like "And if you still cant get it to work call your local neborhood hacker" i bet you wont see that written in any computer manuals today.
------------------
CRAZY!!! IM NOT CRAZY EVERY ONE ELSE IS!!!

[This message has been edited by SCI-CO (edited February 09, 2001).]

[derekb]

Evil, plain and simple. The only time that they are not is when they are working for a security company that is paying them to find holes in a network. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm7.gif

------------------
Relaxing in the corporate world!

[jbar1]

http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm17.gif As a ex hacker I have mixed feelings about this. Years ago it was just a challenge for me and a fellow tech. We never downloaded any files or noted any information from a site other than how we got there and that we snail mailed to the company we hacked except for govern sites. We did no damage and left no tags. But after reading some of the Bull crap on the govern sites it was tempting. And did you know that dear old Uncle Sam does a lot of hacking on its own? We had a friend in Phoenix that got caught and was given a choice. Hack for Uncle or go to jail. Nice choice! If it wasn't for wide spread hacking we would'nt know just how volurnable how systems are. Lets face it there will always be someone trying to get in and as more and more business is transacted on the net there will be more crooks trying to take advantage. Livermore Weapons Research is constantly tightening their system because hackers showed them just how easy it was, and believe me in the past it was easy not so anymore I hear. And if you are one who thinks it wont or can't happen to you, just wait. As far as those who find the need to destroy files, take down sites or in any way use information for illegal or immoral reasons (including sting operations) should be locked up indefinatly. A lot of good hackers could be making top money working for major business in their security depts.

------------------
If life is a bitch then what is death? I believe I will take the bitch!

[pm4345]

In my opinion, hackers/crackers/phreakers etc are categorized in two categories.

Those whose intent is to cause harm intentionally and those who don't have the same intentions.

Unfortunately, some accidentally cause harm because they don't know what they are doing. I categorize them as intentional, because if they don't know what they are doing, they shouldn't have been there in the first place!

Peace!

------------------
Say what?

[slkdprk]

i fear the dark side not,
the force is strong in me.
Script kiddies are dipshi1s.
I had a kids computer in my shop the other day that belonged to a script kiddie, so I defaced his desktop to let him knw that a true hacker could chew him up and spit hoim out. Not that I am a hacker but hy why not.
Later

------------------
It's a Jeep thing you wouldn't understand.

[dumb blonde]

Here's my option without hackers,little brat without any to do,really wierd people, what ever you chioce to call them. the are a nessecry evil! stop and think how much money you and or your company make a year by what this "HACKERS" do. yes it would be nice not to have to worry about it. some of the better computer guys i know all were hackers in there younger days. so maybe some of you guys started in the computer field as hackers?? are they all that bad? please don't get me wrong i am not stucking up for them i feel hacking in any shape or form is dead wrong. but this is part of life, and it go's on and on. http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm9.gif

------------------
what will go wrong today???? never mind going back to bed

[This message has been edited by dumb blonde (edited February 10, 2001).]

[SiCkNuT]

I prefer hackers to virus coders!

------------------
[ i N S A N i T Y 2 0 o 1 ]

[cyberhh]

I must apologise I was trying to put my thought into words before and lost my internal dictionary and what was to be an opinion on hackers that should have been slightly different turned into a ramble. Now for the new revised opinion:

"Hackers solve problems and build things, and they must believe in freedom and voluntary mutual help."

"There is another group that calls themselves 'Hackers', but aren't. These are people (mainly adolescent males) who get a kick out of breaking into computers and phreaking the phone system. Real hackers call these people 'crackers' and want nothing to do with them. Real hackers mostly think crackers are lazy, irresponsible, and not very bright, and object that being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker and more than being able to hotwire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word 'hacker' to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers to no end." - taken from "How to be a Hacker" by Eric Steven Raymond (www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html)

The above passage accurately summs up my opinion. Thanks

------------------
Death is lighter than a feather - duty heavier than a mountian.