Pirates of Silicon Valley [Archive] - WinDrivers Computer Tech Support Forums

IP_Spike

June 22nd, 1999, 10:08 AM

It sucked!. From a writing standpoint, the dialog was crap. And from a viewing standpoint, who amoung us thinks that any of the people depicted in that hack of a movie are really that stupid? They were portrayed as being witless morons who blindly stumbled around silicon valley looking for something to steal. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and everyone else slandered should sue. It is not that I dont believe that those events happened, I simply believe they were less dramatic and less personal than 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' would have you believe.

tmacri1@tampabay.rr.com

June 22nd, 1999, 11:06 AM

Didn't IBM first go to Bill, and he didn't want to write DOS, so they went to Digital Research. But DR's founder's wife refused to sign the contract. Bill changed his mind. Didn't the DR founder (I can't remember his name) end up dead by being blugeoned with a dull object about five years ago? Can somebody comment on this? And why didn't Apple rewrite their OS for X86 processors? And why dosen't IBM make OS/2 Win 9x compatible? Anybody remember the math equation:
WIN95 = 1/2(MAC87) + 1/2 (OS/2)?

drewpage

June 22nd, 1999, 11:32 AM

I thought this movie was very well done. It showed what can happen when one person with too much power gets greedy. Bill Gates was depicted to be just as bad as Steve Jobs, but the difference is, Bill Gates was alot smarter. Steve Jobs deserved what he got. I would like to know the real story of what happened though. I am sure this movie is part fact, part fiction.

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Jeffro

June 22nd, 1999, 01:17 PM

If what they said is in fact true. Then the way that Bill persuaded Steve for the OS makes him a huge thief. It seems from what everyone does he steals and becomes richer. Doesn't he ever stop. He has enough money to last a lifetime or even 100,000 lifetimes. I am not to concerned with it though, since Steve Jobs is back at apple and the release of the Flavorful Macs, then I will be able to continue using the best machine ever built. I don't even care that Bill owns 7% of the company as long as he is in a position where he can't screw it up and make it as cheesy as Windows.

xxx@xxx.com

June 22nd, 1999, 04:22 PM

BILL SUCKS

AdolfoM

June 22nd, 1999, 04:43 PM

Apple stole from Xero palo Alto labs. Microsoft stole from Apple to make Windows. Apple and Microsoft stole from Adobe. Apple stole from the Windows/Intel platform. Good ideas are meant to be stolen, borrowed, and such; it makes for competition. See the auto industry for many examples. If Mac were so great, why did they migrate to PCI, IDE, USB to take advantage of less expensive and more common PC hardware. Both platforms have benefitted from the crossfertilization of competition. The movie overlooked a lot of things, and it was more entertainment than a factual documentary. Apple courted Bill Gates to develop for the Mac for its 1984 introduction since it lacked a very important things for launch...applications or user app-development tools. Mind you that Excel & Word are tops on Mac as much as they are on Windows, and Microsoft has done that without as much access to the OS as they enjoy on the PC platform. DR was approached to develop DR-DOS for the PC; DR blew off IBM for a weekend of surfing. Bill's mom, on the board of IBM, suggested her son could do something for them, and the rest is history...including buying DOS for $50,000.
However as entertainment, it was fun to watch the fiction created around the known "facts" in this story. As for a MAC-OS port to X86, it was tried and abandoned by Apple circa 1993 just prior to Win NT release. Steve Job's port of NextStep for X86 never flew; it was cool operating system to run on X86, but everyone seemed to lazy to create their own apps (with the included SDK) for the environment. BTW, what would have been the MS-IBM OS/2 3.0 kernel was kept from IBM by MS, and MS used it to develop Win NT 3.5. IBM OS/2 3.X/4.X was developed solely by IBM from OS/2 2.X kernel.
TrueType Fonts and True Image were MS and Apple attempt to undercut Adobe Postscript and ATM. Publish and subscribe was Apple's joint venture with MS to adapt OLE tech to MacOS. The user has benefitted most this...
my fifty cents on this....

micheljohn

June 22nd, 1999, 05:35 PM

Even if it was only half-truths it was really great portrayal of what can happen when you don't have vision. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had vision. They would not have gotten half as far as they did in the early days without it. The problem is controlling the vision and molding it. It seems that Steve was molding the people instead of the vision and Bill was molding the vision into the people, while keeping the vision clear to himself.

Juno@Alaska.Com

June 22nd, 1999, 07:01 PM

Where would you like to get screwed today??

Sherrie

June 22nd, 1999, 07:21 PM

There was only one true inventer and it wasn't Bill or Steve they just went on a free ride. All that Bill and Steve were cabable of is buying or stealing someone elses ideas. So much for the crime doesn't pay theory. All of those in prison for stealing...I guess you stole the wrong things!!!!

Edward Ott

June 22nd, 1999, 07:57 PM

I just finished a history of Sience & Tech. class for general education requirements for my degree. I must say that "Pirates" comes close on many of the facts, but missed quite a few major points (like where they got dos from I am pretty sure it was DEC in seattle). I suggest that anyone who is really interested in the developement of personal computing to chase down a long documantary that was aired on PBS about two months ago. Several key people involved were interviewed.

I find it interesting that they glossed over the importance of visi-calc, the first real spreadsheet (?), which made the personal computers real business tools and hot comodity.

You do have to admit that Gates is a business genius. He is ruthless, but how is he different from Carnegie, Rockefeller, or any of the other rober barons of the early part of the century?

I think the movie portrayed both in a bad light, but it treated both about the same. In that sense I can not really fault the producers. Both practically stole from xerox, and they missed several key points, like how Gates in the beginning spoke out against piracy when developing a language for the altair. I find it ironic that they instead focused on how both Jobs, and Gates pirated major innovations from other companies.

ellingtond

June 22nd, 1999, 08:31 PM

All I can say is:

After watching the movie. . . I don't feel the least bit guilty about using the same copy of win98 on 3 of the systems in my home office http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

Besides, Gates said long ago, MS wouldn't be the company it is now if Win 3.1 wasn't the most pirated software in history.

MS is like a warped Razor company. . .
They stick it to you on the blades AND the razor http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

DE

Gold32

June 23rd, 1999, 08:38 AM

The movie did a good job with the facts, but the production was not that good. I think that apple deserved what it got. All is fair in love and war. Too bad you apple whiners. Everyone needs to get over it, you can whine all you want, but good old billy will still be popping out Windows, and most of you will buy it from him http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

zack

June 23rd, 1999, 08:52 AM

I did not get to see it, I would like to see it.. can i down load the movie some how ?

Getzburg

June 23rd, 1999, 12:02 PM

If you want to know what really went down in those days, get a copy of Bob Cringely's "Accidental Empires" It tells you all about Jobs, Gates, and many other figures in Silicon Valley history.

[This message has been edited by Getzburg (edited June 23, 1999).]

Getzburg

June 23rd, 1999, 12:25 PM

Here I am again, agreeing with Tamacri1 on a few points. IBM went to Digital Research looking for an OS. Gery Kildall was out flying his plane at the time, and his wife didn't want to sign the IBM ND agreement. So they went to Microsoft. Bill said, "Yeah, we have an OS" and as soon as IBM left, went out and bought QDOS from a guy named Cal Bauer. QDOS, incidentally, was a cheap CPM clone that stood for "Quick and Dirty Operating System". So IBM came to Bill, not the other way around.
And as far as that whole Jobs stole from Xerox and the Bill stole from Jobs, Who really cares. Xerox PARC really invented the PC first, and the brass was too dumb to market it. That much, at least, the movie has right.
Oh, and one more thing. That whole thing with Jobs getting pissed about being employee number two, that all happened, but not until much later when apple started issuing ID badges.

Tschnack

June 23rd, 1999, 01:11 PM

I thought it was pretty good. Sure makes you wish Mac's were the norm rather than Wintels. How long until people start to care about which one is better, rather than cheaper ?!?

Paul Ulin

June 23rd, 1999, 07:10 PM

It was an interesting movie. Although some facts may or may not have been misrepresented, it did help to illustrate two very important points.
1)Vision and marketing create the product. Not the technology itself. Somebody had to convince us that we needed -- that we could not live without -- the technology. Both Jobs and Gates had the vision. Xerox and Digital Research did not. They knew they knew what they were giving up. They did not see the potential. But Gates not only saw potential, he knew how to market. He knew what ideas to borrow. And he knew how to adapt and push what really amounts to an inferior technology to the mass market and keep it riding on top.
(2) The industry is volitile. Change can and does happen in the blink of an eye. If nothing else, the movie illustrated this. Jobs concentrated his efforts against big blue, while Gates leveraged nearly all the marketshare in the pc industry from both companies. IBM may have needed Microsoft, but Microsoft sure as heck didn't need them any more. And while Apple shifted the focus from hardware to software with the Lisa and the Mac, Microsoft beat them at their own game.

Who would have guessed that IBM and Apple would later work together on a few projects and present a united front on the common enemy-- namely Microsoft? Moreover who would have guessed that when Apple was struggling, Microsoft would have bailed them out? Maybe that was the plan all along. Wouldn't be so strange after all. Kind of leads you to think where it's all going to go. It's a new era.
Sun Microsystems, Netscape, Yahoo... All these new players... all these new ideas. Is Microsoft still going to be on top in 20 years? Where will the focus be? On operating systems, network operating systems, cross-platform languages like Java? Or will it be something we could not possibly have foreseen?

DietCoke

June 23rd, 1999, 10:41 PM

Phreaking & software piracy.... the two corporate evils.... Let me get this straight. MS and Apple can rip off each other, Xerox, and others and make a buck out of it in the name of competition, but I'm labeled a criminal for giving out pirated software for free?

Corporate America can whine all they want, but they're no better than me. In fact, after seeing the way Jobs and Gates dealt with things, assuming this is at least 50% true, I have absolutely no reservations about shooting meg after meg of data to whomever I please.

By the way, if you are a pirater and you are concerned about getting raided, booby-trap your box, but worry most about your CDs. My solution was to make a carrying box with a magnesium lining and a nice triggering non-explosive device to set it off... hard to recover data for evidence if it's a molten clump of plastic!

Hee Hee! Back to FTP'ing folks!

Mr,Pibb

June 24th, 1999, 02:34 AM

The movie depicts Bill Gates as some sort of programmer, who wrote some amazing software where others couldn't. But notice that he sends his friend to do the talking and stuff like that. (Hell, they even have him dramatically exclaim "Oh no I forgot to write the loader, I hope my pal remembered it" Suprise! This is because Bill Gates is an idiot who couldn't write an "Exit" sign, let alone a working piece of software.
(Though I hear he takes a special interest in writing all those "Your Screwed" errors in Windoz)

Sherrie

June 24th, 1999, 04:19 AM

One point everyone is missing is that Xerox and Apple both asked for it not to mention HP! HP had all the rights to the first home PC which became Apple. Xerox had designed the first mouse and graphical interface which Apple stole the Microsoft stole from them.

These guys are suppose to be such Corprate Geniuses, why didn't Xerox or Apple Paten their ideas? Xerox gave Apple the chance to steal it, in turn Apple gave MS the chance to steal it too but Apple's understanding was that MS would write other software and inhance the Mac OS.

If you won the lottery, would you pass your million dollar lottery ticket around your work place for everyone to see it? They all got what they deserved just based on ignorance!

All of you people who are now feeling that this gives you the right to pirate software, keep in mind that just because Bill Gates got away w/ it will not stand up in a court of law! Microsoft was probably one of the biggest lobbiests pushing our government to establish pirating laws! Spending $90 for Win '98 is a whole lot cheaper than the $100,000+++ fines and time you can get charged with. Also read the paten and pirating laws before you think it's safe to pirate old OS versions. It would really suck to go to jail over DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0!

The movie should have had a warning at the end of it stating "This is not a ticket to steal!"

Mattster

June 24th, 1999, 08:27 AM

I have followed computers for over 15 years and noticed that people tend to demonize Bill Gates and applaud Steve Jobs. They are two versions of the same story. It is their approach that is different. I have no problem with what either of them did except with Jobs dehumanizing attitude towards his workers. Having known one of the original Macintosh team members , Debbie Coleman, it was apparent behind a relaxed facade was the soul of a meglomaniac. Long live the minimally expandable, neat colored, bad keyboard and mouse'd IMAC !!!!

krandia

June 24th, 1999, 09:06 AM

I had to sit down and watch this movie twice.
It was very confusing on who was Steve and who was Bill...And most of all who was Woz..

Woz was the guy that wrote the program for the Altair,, Not Bill .. Also I say Steve Deserved what he got. If you think of it he is the one that created Priacy. 2nd, When Steve and Woz opened up at the computer Fair and the doors opened. Bill was one of the people that approched Steve , And Steve Snubbed him. and Bill walked away.
I dont see what Bill did to steve as priacy.
I see him as making changes to a program. That probly would had been shelved cause of all the Bugs in it. Plus Steve Thought he came first above all. Even his own daughter.
Oh well!! what goes around comes around.

Imabeliver

June 24th, 1999, 10:23 AM

I have unresolved feelings about both Steve and Bill now! I started out with apple as my first experience with computers. The only thing I didn't like about them was the lack of software to buy situation! Sure there was plenty of pirated software back then for them too but to try and buy software there was little.
Just last month I had alot of respect for Gates for all his "hard work" had done for him. Now if this movie was really true the Bill Gates should go to jail for what he did to Steve and his crew! Too many people tho with all those bucks never seem to get incriminated and jailed!
Now you have to understand that I am now running windows 98' like most everyone else is. But I was brought over to Dos kicking and screaming just because most all my friends had Dos so I could get all the software I wanted...Hmmmm, well you know...
Anyway, I cannot see where some on here are saying that Steve did any stealing as he did pay that Dude for his software O/S! Just $50,000 but what the hell, he was happy to get it!!
But bill just outright stole from apple! I agree with another fellow's opinion of him on here is that he probably don't know how to make a batch file let alone encoding all his windows crap! Everyday I run this damn windows crap I get 4-10 errors, lock-ups, and cute little messages when widows gets a "cold" and coughs it all up! I would be back with apple's stuff today if they would creat a system that would run both win AND apple applications! But i'm stuck in this "windows" world that now I know why my screen looks as dirty as the Gates that stole them!

Getzburg

June 24th, 1999, 07:30 PM

Krandia, sorry, but I have to argue with you. Bill And Paul wrote the original BASIC interpreter for the Altair. Woz invented the Apple.
I do, however, agree with you in that Jobs is a schmuck. The fact that Bill is also a schmuck, however, leaves me choosing between cancer and AIDS.

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heyyou

June 25th, 1999, 12:40 PM

i thought it was ok for a movie from tnt
i did tape it (then they played it over & over again)so i could watch it again.
btw,they make a card for the mac called virtual pc so you can run windows too.

NetTech

June 25th, 1999, 05:21 PM

All I have to say is this movie could not possibly tell the whole tale. Nevertheless, people seem to forget that Xerox practically GAVE Apple the GUI. If accepting a gift is stealing then steal on! Xerox was given shares of Apple for the trade. Correct me if I am wrong.

Krovax

June 25th, 1999, 05:48 PM

Juno@Alaska.com: ROFL

I'm just glad it showed Microsoft for the bloodsuckers they are.

Use LinuX people..less crashes less bugs..better preformance...

pcshark

July 13th, 1999, 07:51 PM

I loved the movie, although I thought it should have been a three night miniseries. They left out a LOT.

Some food for thought:

Novell took Xerox's XPS protocol for their IPX stack. Why does Xerox always seem to let themselves get ripped off? Is it because they are content being copier manufacturers? If IBM had been content making typewriters, we might all be using Macs. Or Apple IIs. Without IBM's competition, Apple may have never leapt into the Macintosh field.

I remember watching the 1984 ad during the Superbowl. I got chills.

My first computer was an Atari 800. They took a Motorola chipset and took the graphics processing off the CPU and put it in a separate chipset made of three chips. Sounds a bit like MMX instructions, no? Only in reverse (-:

Final thought: If IBM had not made MCA a closed architecture, OS/2 would be the dominant desktop OS today, and Microsoft would still be kissing their butt. But they'd also be in court with the DOJ in an Antitrust suit. Hmm, maybe Big Blue isn't all that dumb after all! (-:

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R. Bret Walker, CNA

joey3k

February 4th, 2001, 02:20 PM

I FOUND IT!
A real old post saying scott only has about 200posts..heheh

Anyways while we are on the subject, how did everyone think of that Antitrust movie? I havent seen it myself yet, but have heard a little about it.

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PCCHIPS, the way of the future.

Auric

February 4th, 2001, 06:55 PM

Pirates of Silcon Valley? didn't get to see that here in canada wish i could find it online somewhere...

Antitrust kicks *** if you are into the whole open source (Linux) vs. Empire (m$) sorta deal. Great storyline, although it is kind of confusing..but it is true..

my new signature

"knowledge belongs in the hands of the people"

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Error in Life.sys Do You Wish To Correct? Y / N

slkdprk

February 4th, 2001, 09:27 PM

for starters those who do not learn theiur history are doomed to repaeat it.
for enders, Long live Linux.
also i thought only registered users could post?
where did all these freaks come from?
/SLK

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It's a Jeep thing you wouldn't understand.

lgrimm

February 5th, 2001, 08:35 AM

Good concept, the movie, but I thought it kinda sucked......I believe that it probably did happen that way, I just thought the movie could have been done better.....oh well.

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Ever stop to think....and forget to start again?

jaeger

February 6th, 2001, 06:36 AM

The movie was allright, kinda boring cause I knew the history. <rant>And in reference to the many above posts the entire "unregistered" concept should be done away with. It's getting annoying to see 'Microsoft sux' as the whole content of the message. If you have reasoning to back up that kind of statement, I'm game, if you don't, your just another part of the ignorant mass known as society-at-large. And the entire point of the this, was to find out what was the opinion of the movie, not whether Microsoft sux.</rant> http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm21.gif

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Life isn't one damn thing after another, it's the same damn thing over and over.

PLaSMaNS

February 6th, 2001, 07:05 AM

!!!!! I can't beleive we're still witnessing the obviously never-ending "Stealing" of ideas !!!!!!

Ok let's put this staight :

GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE

Wich one of these 3 surprisingly simple words don't you guys understand ???

Do you really think that Anybody stole from anybody ??? The currect Pc (read:electrical entertaining expensive device) NEEDs an Os that's easy to use and versatile.

Ok, i'll take you guys on a rant for something : What would you do if you'd write an Os ??? Basing on all of your stealing rants... you wouldn't be allowed Mice, you wouldn't be allowed to used the monitor for displaying square-things taht you can click... since the idea has already been used... what's left ???

Tell me how john's software would be without using GUI ??? Just imagine what the entire industry would be like if we couldn't be inspired ...
(no, i don't consider mac's GUI identical to Win's, if you do... look again)

When GUI rolls over... it's gonna be time for PUI (Pluggable-User-Interface) :^)

Wouldn't a little RJ-45 be nice on your shoulder ?

And then... everybody will be using the same ways... : that's called evolution http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm7.gif

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Who am I ? I was the next door kid's imaginary friend.

cyberhh

February 7th, 2001, 02:20 PM

Haven't seen it never heard anything good about it.

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Death is lighter than a feather - duty heavier than a mountian.

sebass54

February 8th, 2001, 09:21 AM

I thought it was a good movie...I'm not going to cry about Bill Gates like many people tend to do.

Instead of bashing Bill, what about Steve Jobs?

Was it just me or did this movie make him seem like a total jackass?

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"then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way..."

crtlaltdel

February 9th, 2001, 11:15 AM

I have the 3-part series called triumph of the nerds, narrated by Robert Cringley sp?
very good account of the PC history, way better than pirates of silicon valley http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm29.gif

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I'm on the right track but the wrong train...or is it the right train but wrong track ?

protechpc

February 9th, 2001, 02:21 PM

Actually, what has always made me wonder is the Altaire. Here is this guy who decides to build this thing but doesn't know how to make it run, but thinks he has something that doesn't do anything, and yet this "other guy" BG finds out about this thing that doesn't do anything and "discovers" something that will make it do something.

Everybody wants to bash Gates and Jobs, and yet when you really think about what the mindset was and what technology was back then, they really did some amazing stuff. For those two to have the visions that made the PC possible today is really an amazing thing.

Hey, if it were simple, everybody would have done it.

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Got a customer problem? Remember, the old proverb "walk a mile in another man's shoes"

At least you will be a mile away when they start complaining.

jimmr13

February 9th, 2001, 06:50 PM

I know this was just posted 2 months ago!
It was slow, The actors sucked ! ( Mr. Hall should have retired after 16 candles) Not a true docu. But on the other hand I did watch the whole movie! http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smilies/cwm11.gif
Wow it just came to me the kid from Austrlia bitched about the movie it was on pay per view over there! And he thought it sucked!
OOPS Sorry Scott forgot it was your post!
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If all else fails read the directions !

[This message has been edited by jimmr13 (edited February 09, 2001).]