Magnetic Screwdriver, why not ???

[jasonflorida1]

The poll today showed that 41% of techs don't use magnetic screwdrivers, I'm wondering why not? Unless newbies think that magnetic rays will erase hard drives or floppies, but guess what newbies it won't, if you don't believe me try it. You need a pretty strong magnet to destroy a floppy. Magnetic screwdrivers are major time and headache savers. Poor newbies

[jasonflorida1]

Magnetics cannot ruin a chip, I don't now where you where educated in electronics, but magnetics have no effect on chips. No offense by the way.

[klenard]

Ok I don't know where you heard that a magnetic tip won't screw up your system or any chips. How do you think they put all that info on the chips and how do you think information is stored on your hard drive, granted the polarity is probably not strong enough to ruin a hard drive, but it is possible for it to ruin the less shielded chips on your board. In order for a chip to have its information inputted onto it, it is MAGNETICALLY put there. I used to put together circuit boards for Missiles and the number 2 no-no was using a magnet anywhere near the board you were building (number 1 being ESD.) If you have been using a magnetic tip on your board, you are very lucky for not having ruined it.

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To have Knowledge is to understand you are not alone.

[jhutto]

Now now.. Magnets CAN effect EPROM EEPROM Flash, disks, and drives.

BUT

The VERY weak power my screwdriver has is unlikely to cause any damage to anything. The Hard drives ALL have 2 VERY strong magnets. (Place a screw over the top, and throught the shielding they will sometimes stick.)

The power of a magnetic screwdriver is less than that of the speaker on some modems.



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Jon Hutto

[Sowulo]

Not to mention the large magnet on the back of the case speakers...

[Indigo]

Magnetic screwdriver=Good.

[jasonflorida1]

thankyou for the support, that was the basis of my argument, you can't even destroy floppy data with a magnetized screwdriver let alone IC's.

[jmlozan]

magnetic screwdriver = very, very, very good!

[AnyTwo]

It looks like there isn't very much electronic repair experience in this thread.
Magnetic tools are a no-no to the experienced electronics tech. It may be different with computer repair techs though -no offense intended.
I've been repairing electronic equipment for 20+ years (equipment being circa 1965-1995). You just don't take chances with magnetic fields of any strength around electronic components.

I understand the arguement about the other magnets inside a computer's case, however, those magnets rarely come in contact with the pins on the chips on the motherboard. If (when) your screwdriver slips from your fingers and bounces across the motherboard, pray that the tip does not touch the pins on the EEPROMs. It may not cause damage every time, but it's fairly simple and inexpensive to prevent it from ever causing damage.

A better solution is to lightly dip the non-magnetized screwdriver tip in paste solder flux once every couple of days. It works just as well as a magnetized screwdriver and has zero effect on any components. If you drop a screw and need to retrieve it, use a pickup tool made for the job. If you're still buying your tools from Wal-Mart, get a Jensen Tools catalog and drool for awhile. Hey, you're a professional, go get the right tools for the job! It drives my wife nuts, but she can't argue when I say "I need this for work".

Just my two cents....

[shawnMt]

No offense AnyTwo but Jensen is just about the most overpriced tool provider I have ever seen. I bought my screwdriver at Wal-Mart and it's been with me for a number of years. No, you can't get everything there - but I can find most tools that Jensen has elsewhere for cheaper.

PC repair is not electronics repair. That is why I don't work on microwaves, stereos, or VCRs. I don't get down to component level repair - if a $15 modem is bad - I replace it. I'm a tech and a damn good one. I've been using a magnetic screwdriver for 5 years and have never had a problem.

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Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted

Paint your old laptop! (http://www.auwebdesign.com/shawnpages)

[This message has been edited by shawnMt (edited August 30, 2000).]

[Sowulo]

I agree with you shawnMt. There's no way I'm going inside real electronics like the inside of monitors--I subcontract those jobs. I've been a full time self-employed tech for 15 years and never lost a patient yet (that wasn't already dead before I got there). I remember being at a trade show once and to the absolute horror of the sales rep picked up a HD without hooking up to a grounding strap. Geeze, I know better than to add/remove components from a running system but PC components just aren't that sensitive. I remember when the first IDE drives came out...my vendor took one out of a bench system, threw it across the room bouncing it off the baseboard, retrieved it, reattached it and booted clean with no problems (not recommended at home). Those who used to work with ESDI, MFM, & RLL can breathe again now. HD's can be very sensitive to damage when disturbed while spinning but unpowered components are pretty darn sturdy--be careful with your work but don't be paranoid.

[ledrichard]

I wonder if the guys that use magnetic screwdrivers have an RMA dept?

You think?

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hey its me again!

[ReBoot]

Like any tool, it's only as good as the tradesman using it.
In computer repair, a magnetic screwdriver can be indispensible, but in the wrong hands, it can also screw things royally.
For some things, I use them, for some I don't.
Depends on what you're working on.
FYI, I've never had an RMA due to any magnetic field damage.

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Who needs a life, I have Internet!
Jim & Sue's Free Files (http://members.cnx.net/reboot) | Jim's Modems (http://members.cnx.net/reboot/modems.htm)

[AnyTwo]

I know I'm barking at the moon here, but like the old physicians motto: "first, do no harm"; I don't see the sense in taking a chance when using the right tool can prevent an expensive mistake.

And... even though spraying windex through the air slots on an operating monitor may not blow it up, I don't think that's a good idea either.

But, to each his own. Your use of a magnetic screwdriver does not seem to have caused you problems thus far, and I sincerely wish you continued good luck.

Oops, that's four cents worth, I better stop now!

[This message has been edited by AnyTwo (edited August 31, 2000).]

[jhutto]

EEPROM's are not in computers anymore. not in at least 5 years anyway. Before that they were the Bios Chips.

Magnetic Screwdrivers HAVE NOT DAMAGED ANYTHING I have worked on. (6 years bench tech, and 3 years phone support)

Example of how Makers of computers feel:
Toshiba's offical screwdrivers is magnetic Compaq's also. HP if I remember right reccamends magnetic screwdrivers on there printers.
IBM's are not magnetic (old school).

[xtech-isme]

Originally posted by jasonflorida1:
The poll today showed that 41% of techs don't use magnetic screwdrivers, I'm wondering why not? Unless newbies think that magnetic rays will erase hard drives or floppies, but guess what newbies it won't, if you don't believe me try it. You need a pretty strong magnet to destroy a floppy. Magnetic screwdrivers are major time and headache savers. Poor newbies
I have always use magnetic screwdriver, but of course I don't go rollarskate in buffao herd either. There are common sense in doing everything. So if you have to use magnetic screwdriver use one.

[MAYHEM]

Though I forget where I ordered it from, the 90 piece "Proffessional PC and Networking Toolkit" I bought a couple years ago came with all magnetic tip drivers most of the Phillips head drivers have since been replaced (with magnetic tip).

While they are handy I still keep a non-magnetic tip for placing screws near Bios chips on the mainbard ( my rule of thumb is if it is within 4" of the bios chip use a non-mag driver).

By the way the best non-magnetic solution is "Tacky-Finger" available at most office suply stores or good ole "Stick-um" from the sporting goods store (yes the same stuff they banned in the NFL)

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There is no Spoon!

[weck]

Hmmmm...I have used magnetized screwdrivers for around 6 years with no problems at all..actually I magnetize the tips with old magnets taken from Hard Drives...

[Green Iguana]

I have used magnetic drivers for years and never harmed a thing.

[Garfeild_Cat]

http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/tongue.gif Please forgive the length


I really hate to disapoint all of you but has anyone heard of EMPs(electro magnetic pulses)???? Granted the EMPs the military is refering to are much stronger (X1000 or >).

I have worked on computers for the last 6 years now and HAVE seen people (generally not techs) KILL or DESTROY everything from 486s to PIIIs using magnetic tools.

For those of you NOT familiar with electronics: "current can be generated when a magnetic force is moved with in a coil". Also " If a magnet is moved over 2 "or more" wires in close proximity it will induce a current through them. "Wires" in this instance can be conductive traces or actual wires.

If you know how IC's are constructed you will know that inside there are MANY "wires" or conductive traces. Many of the NEW ics can NOT withstand pulsine current in the 100x~1X mA range (as they were not designed for it) with out burning out or being stressed.

And as many of you know that technology is making both general ICs and CPUs on a much smaller scale (.15 for coppermine). Thus they will not handle the current and will be MORE prone to EMP damage.

In case you still doubt that damage can be done then please think of how flouresent lights (over 4~5ft away) affect a computer's comunication to a printer with an UN sheilded cable.

Sorry this is so long but the magnetic tool use must be thought out before being used. Like any other tool when "properly" used it is a GREAT asset. When it is NOT properly used....

In ending I have seen VERY strong magnetic tools that were designed for AUTOMOTIVE use being used on a mainboard. So it all goes down to experience which is essentially knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Green Iguana]

Well gang, got bored this afternoon and decided to see how much damage I could do to a machine with a magnet. Used a working P-166 for a test subject. Rubbed down the CPU and all the chips (BIOS too) on the MB and cards with a powerful magnet removed from an old HDD. Booted it up and it ran fine. Shut it down and placed a magnet on all the chips in the system and fired it up that way. It's been running fine for the past 8 hours now. Diagnostics and stress tests look good. If there were any real issues with magnetism and parts issues, there would be warnings with the parts, like the ESD warnings. I'm sure the parts manufacturers don't want to RMA all the parts that us uneducated techs destroy with our magnetic screwdrivers. Me, I'm "sticking" to my magnetic drivers. For the skeptics, there's chewing gum. http://www.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

[jasonflorida1]

Iguana I tried the same thing on an AMD 350 machine that was still under warranty(RMA if it goes bad). I placed a magnet i removed from a hard drive on top of one of the chips and let it run all week with the magnet on top of it. I had no trouble all week and its been there 6 days now. Anyways I didnt plan on this post being dragged out so long. If you don't believe get out an old 486 and try it.

[Gabriel]

Hi Everyone,
I've been technician for over 10 Years (now i am a sys. Admin...).
I use Magnetic ScrewDriver ONLY for external parts of system (no hdd, floppy, slots, pci/agp card).
Fellowes, don't take potentialy unecessery mistakes. it is not worth it...

[Veriance]

Never use a magnet and always put on the surgical mask before opening a computer. ... Just trying to come up with some other crazy logic. From the 41% how many actually ever erased a floppy with a bulk eraser? It takes a good while to erase a floppy with a electro magnet 100,000 times stronger than the heaviest screwdriver magnet and I never seen a hd erased with a magnet. I let all my techs use magnetic bits in their power screwdrivers. There is less chance that a screws accidentally dropped in the machine causes eventually a short.

[TechWulf]

A magnetic screwdriver is like a knife for a surgeon, as long as yer carefull, nothing will happen.

[jhutto]

There is a difference here in what we are all talking about.

A small magnetic screwdriver like Compaq and Toshiba send their tech's isn't going to do anything don't care if you touch leads of the bios chip!

A magnetic screwdriver like you use on a car or truck with a battery in the handle (can pick up a whole computer not just a screw) is likely to damage something or everything.

Just like eating, drinking, ESD proctection, etc. Enless you go overboard a magnetic screwdriver is VERY usefull. I only use a magnetic screwdriver/bits. And I always have a ground strap on. (cept when working on monitors.)

That gets to something else. I wear a grounding stap on my right wrist. My shirt/pants/etc build static. and a wrist strap only offers a little protection.

[Dav]

Not only do I use a magnetic screwdriver, but mine has a little flashlight built into the handle.

I've used it for several years w/o problem.

Yes, I am careful of what I touch with it, the only thing I want to touch with it is a screw.

[tgratzer]

I got an idea put a piece of chewed gum on the end of your screwdriver to pick up those lost screws in your system so we won't have to bitch about this anymore!

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I am a bomb technician, if you see me running try and keep up

[Snock]

I don't use magnetic tools, mainly because I don't want to pick up my screwdriver out of my toolbox and have junk stuck to the tip. Instead of a magnetic screwdriver, I use one that I found at Sears that has little jaws near the point. You push up on a little thumb knob to extend and open the jaws, and pull down to retract and close them. It's a very simple, very effective design that holds the screw on much better than a magnetic. You can put a screw on that thing and wildly flail it around the room if you want - that screw is not coming off unless you want it to. Very useful, not too expensive.

[barbados]

Interesting thread fellows....

I am an RF engineer by trade and I can tell you that there are NO magnetic tools in my toolbox. They are ceramic, plastic or brass. The only reason for this is that ferrous or magnetic tools will detune RF circuits.

In computer work there is a slight chance that a highly magnetized tool MAY induce a current strong enough to destroy a MOS or MOSFET type device, but, IMHO, it is unlikely.

I freely use magnetized ferrous tools around and in my computers and have never had any hint of a problem. http://63.236.72.252/cgi-bin/forum/smile.gif

[kubrick]

yeah!!!!
I love this whole back and forth debate action! This is my first post, (and there seem to be a lot of smart techs in here), but I need to REPRESENT for the magnetic bits attached to my craftsman electric driver!
GO MAGNETIC TOOLS!!!! USA!!!

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It's Frank's World, we just live in it.

[This message has been edited by kubrick (edited September 29, 2000).]