With 56K, there was a way to use 2 modems in conjunctioon with each other, from US Robotics I believe, referred to as "Shotgun". This allowed a user to effectively double their connection rate using 2 phone lines if I'm not mistaken.
My question is, can this be done using 2 ethernet cards with two different broadband connections? I'm sure it can, but am unsure how you bind the two cards together to make the system use both connections at the same time. I know it should seem easy, but I'm drawing a blank on how it would be done.
kato2274
February 18th, 2003, 03:22 PM
I've seen at least one router that allowed two cable modems to be plugged into it.......but I can't find it anymore.
while cool, what you don't get is the ablilty to "shotgun" them. for example if you had two modems with 512kbs download you wouldn't be able to combine them to pull over 1mbs on one download process. you could load balance though routing requests to the least congested pipe. So you could download a huge file and surf away at the same time without either of the two activities affecting the other. I could see this type of thing being handy in a small business with mulitple users and you want to keep their internet connections snappy.
just like your shotgunning modem example, your ISP would have to support "shotgunning" cable modems or ADSL connections, and why would they when they can simply bump you up to a plan with more bandwidth, or in the case of the phone company try to sell you a t1 or t3
The Computer Valet
February 18th, 2003, 08:05 PM
I don't know if this is an original name, but this is called (or has been called) "Multilink," and it had to do with using two modems with two accounts on one ISP to increase the combined data throughput to something above 56k. (Note, you never really got 112k. Only 70k or so.)
This is/was more than simply chaining two modems together. It had to be supported on the ISP end with equipment that could treat the incoming connections as one connection.
I do not know of a way to do this with cable/dsl modems, but it would have to be supported on the ISP end as well.
In a LAN, one can do this with multi-port NICs. A four-port card, for instance, can act as one 1000-T card, but this doesn't do anything for the throughput to the cable/dsl service, only internally.
m
ThunderVamp9
February 18th, 2003, 11:01 PM
I understand about the ISP having to support this on their end, and know that totally makes sense. BUT, I'm wondering if it can be done using two different ISP's. If I were to have one NIC connected to my DSL provider, and the other connected to, say, cable. How do you go about linking the two, or can you without another piece of hardware? Can it be done using JUST the two ethernet cards, binding them together?
The Computer Valet
February 18th, 2003, 11:32 PM
It's an interesting question. I don't know the real answer, but my best guess is "I sincerely doubt it."
[edit: I did a little poking around and while I still don't think this is possible with different ISPs, it seems like the idea of multilink DSL is pretty doable.]
Cheers,
m
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 11:08 AM
I am in a unique situation where my neighbors are our great friends, and we have run cat5 cable undergrounnd to allow our computers to be on the same network. make it greaet for playing games, printing to each others printers-- gives whole new meaning to "network neighborhood".
We both have broadband, supplied by the same cable company, but we are in JUST the right location where they are hooked up from one street, and we are from the next-- it just happens to be an area where we ended up on two different 'nodes' or whatever they call it.
We discovered quite by accident, that when only one of us is using the connection to the internet, we are able to download twice as fast---- without realizing it, we are shotgunning our connection.
Ya_know
February 19th, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by joelen
We discovered quite by accident, that when only one of us is using the connection to the internet, we are able to download twice as fast---- without realizing it, we are shotgunning our connection.
How can you be sure that this is what is happening?
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by joelen
I am in a unique situation where my neighbors are our great friends, and we have run cat5 cable undergrounnd to allow our computers to be on the same network. make it greaet for playing games, printing to each others printers-- gives whole new meaning to "network neighborhood".
We both have broadband, supplied by the same cable company, but we are in JUST the right location where they are hooked up from one street, and we are from the next-- it just happens to be an area where we ended up on two different 'nodes' or whatever they call it.
We discovered quite by accident, that when only one of us is using the connection to the internet, we are able to download twice as fast---- without realizing it, we are shotgunning our connection.
that's just the way cable modems work. each node has so much bandwidth available and each modem subscription is capped to a certain bandwidth limit up and down.
Unless you are exceeding your capped bandwidth limit for your account (256kbs, 512kbs, 768kbs, 1mbs etc) then this is no great feat.
If no one else is on my node (like in the middle of the night) my download speed increases as well, but I never get speeds aboved my capped limit. you're just not sharing your assigned bandwidth with others on the node like you do when there is a lot of congestion.
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 11:59 AM
I know that is what is happening, becuase my download speed doubles-- tested it repeatedly.
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by kato2274
that's just the way cable modems work. each node has so much bandwidth available and each modem subscription is capped to a certain bandwidth limit up and down.
Unless you are exceeding your capped bandwidth limit for your account (256kbs, 512kbs, 768kbs, 1mbs etc) then this is no great feat.
If no one else is on my node (like in the middle of the night) my download speed increases as well, but I never get speeds aboved my capped limit. you're just not sharing your assigned bandwidth with others on the node like you do when there is a lot of congestion.
I AM doubling my capped width.
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 12:04 PM
also "shotgunning" would mean that you are also USING his modem in conjuction with yours to download the same file and the two modems are joining together to form one big pipe.
this is not the case you simply are getting a little more "sugar" kicked your way because there aren't as many people on the node - which as stated before is how cable modem access works, (and is one of the big DSL advertising points, that no matter how many people are on the speed is consistent)
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by joelen
I AM doubling my capped width.
then you aren't really capped :D
and that's a good thing. I've seen that before. people order the lowest bandwidth subscription like 256mbs and can consistently get 1mbs when traffic is low. It's not really capped.
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 12:08 PM
it IS capped. the limit would no double if it wasn't.
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by joelen
it IS capped. the limit would no double if it wasn't.
:confused: :confused:
the limit would ONLY double if it wasn't capped. If it was actually hard capped at 512kbs then you would only get a maximum of 512kbs even when you were the only one on your node. if it was hard capped no matter what you did you would never be able to change your maximum bandwith.
if I have a container with 1 cup of water in it and put a cap on it and seal it up. I can not put anymore water in it no matter how much extra water I have available to pass out. Now if I give you 1 cup of water in glass and leave the lid off then see that no one else is using any water, I can toss you some more. but if it's capped and sealed I can't . . .
Just because they tell you that your subscription is capped doesn't mean it actually is.
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 12:31 PM
I think you are missing the point.
I am using 2 NICs, 2 connections, double speed.
both pcs are capped, but the total rate doubles, as these are pulling from 2 different connections. I am not on the same network zone as my nieghbor, or this would not work. as it is, I am on a different zone, so it DOES in fact work.
Using your water analogy, I am getting water from 2 different water companies.
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by joelen
I think you are missing the point.
I am using 2 NICs, 2 connections, double speed.
both pcs are capped, but the total rate doubles, as these are pulling from 2 different connections. I am not on the same network zone as my nieghbor, or this would not work. as it is, I am on a different zone, so it DOES in fact work.
Using your water analogy, I am getting water from 2 different water companies.
if his modem is connected to his machine, and your modem to yours and your computers are hooked via crossover cable, then it makes even less sense, because each computer's secondary NIC, can have only one default gateway which would be the first NIC with the cable modem hooked up to it.
now if you had one computer with three NICS in it that had the two cable modems hooked up and one connection to a hub and you're computers each connected to the hub via one NIC than I'd start to think it's possible and not just a strange occurance because that one computer with 3 NICS would act as the router and gateway for the other two machines and somehow combine the bandwith of both modems and shoot it to the computer(s) who were requesting it.
without a router that both cable modems are hooked into centrally it can't happen and even then I'm not sure you can do more than load balance by routing traffic to the least congested modem.
Ya_know
February 19th, 2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by kato2274
if his modem is connected to his machine, and your modem to yours and your computers are hooked via crossover cable, then it makes even less sense, because each computer's secondary NIC, can have only one default gateway which would be the first NIC with the cable modem hooked up to it.
now if you had one computer with three NICS in it that had the two cable modems hooked up and one connection to a hub and you're computers each connected to the hub via one NIC than I'd start to think it's possible and not just a strange occurance because that one computer with 3 NICS would act as the router and gateway for the other two machines and somehow combine the bandwith of both modems and shoot it to the computer(s) who were requesting it.
without a router that both cable modems are hooked into centrally it can't happen and even then I'm not sure you can do more than load balance by routing traffic to the least congested modem.
That was what I was thinking...
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 02:31 PM
I do not have the time, or the desire to contionue this further.
I was simply letting you know it is possible and that it DOES work- you can shotgun broadband.
Obviously, everyone here just wants to call me a liar without bothering to even ask me the specifics of my system, and how its set up.
You obviously know better, you are right. It cannot be done, it is not possible, becuase you say so.
:flame:
Ya_know
February 19th, 2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by joelen
I do not have the time, or the desire to contionue this further.
I was simply letting you know it is possible and that it DOES work- you can shotgun broadband.
Obviously, everyone here just wants to call me a liar without bothering to even ask me the specifics of my system, and how its set up.
You obviously know better, you are right. It cannot be done, it is not possible, becuase you say so.
Seems to me the burden of proof is in your court. If you don't "desire" to continue this discussion, fine. It’s not like you have even tried to prove your case anyway...
NooNoo
February 19th, 2003, 02:41 PM
Joelen
No one has called you a liar.
What they have stated is their experience with networked internet connections.
If you have a setup that allows this to work, then please educate us.
Yes shotgunning broadband IS possible, but so far all you have said is you are networked with your neighbour.
So before attacking those you see as naysayers, why not tell us how your system works.
I for one would be very interested in learning what has happened here.
joelen
February 19th, 2003, 02:44 PM
No one has come right out and called me a liar, but its clear enough.
And as for the "burden of proof"? There is no burden. I don't have a thing to prove, i don't appreciate those who feel they are superior simply informing me that i am full of sh**. You may not have come right out and said it, but you may of well have.
So good day. I've said my piece, and I am on to other things.
Ya_know
February 19th, 2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by joelen
No one has come right out and called me a liar, but its clear enough.
And as for the "burden of proof"? There is no burden. I don't have a thing to prove, i don't appreciate those who feel they are superior simply informing me that i am full of sh**. You may not have come right out and said it, but you may of well have.
So good day. I've said my piece, and I am on to other things.
But see there you go...you want us to ask you how you are setup, you implore us to do so, and I think it is quite clear that we want to know. So then, enlighten those of us that doubt you claim. Because as it stands it is completely unsubstantiated...
Outcoded
February 19th, 2003, 03:25 PM
So no-one else here has had something on a network work better than it should do, but not wanted to play with it to find out why for fear of breaking it?
I know I have :rolleyes:
kato2274
February 19th, 2003, 03:49 PM
no one is calling you a liar. I'm just saying that from my networking experience, creating a setup like you described would take some serious equipment and router scripting. I don't doubt that your claim, I'm just saying that it's more than likely NOT a case of combining both modem's bandwidth.
and if the setup if you both have two nics one with a cable modem and one connected to each other it's completely illogical for this to be happening from what we know about how networks function.
at the very least you'd have to have a router where the modems were centrally hooked into and you haven't indicated that's the case in your setup.
your NIC can have one default gateway to the internet at any one time. so unless the cable modems are hooked to one central computer, you're not going to be able to pull data and packets from the other cable modem, because as far as your nic knows, it doesn't even exist.
I don't doubt that you are getting this effect. I just doubt it's a case of truly "shotgunning" those two modems.
Ya_know
February 19th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by joelen
So good day. I've said my piece, and I am on to other things.
You have it all wrong...or you are wrong. If you can prove beyond a shadow of your own doubt, but don’t offer any of your research—expect to have your bluff called. This is an integral part of critical thinking; you must prove your case or be disbelieved. If you really have this working, it would be in the best interest of the board to share your experience; your effort is rewarded when you come back here looking for answers to a question of your own.
On the flip side, if you believe you are able to shotgun broadband between you and your neighbor but have no statistical proof, or the know-how to produce this proof, you could always ask the board for instructions how to figure out if you are actually piping from both modems. Either way it will be a learning experience for all, and I am sure you would like to know for sure if even you have any doubt!
So swallow your pride and join back in. As the Wolf in Pulp Fiction once said, “Pretty please, with sugar on top, clean the fu(kin’ car”.
Originally posted by ScottieM3
http://www.nexland.com/turbo.cfm
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/5508
http://www.pcvsconsole.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2846 (similiar discussion)
great links. this quote from the dsl reports site says it all
dslreports faq
Circuit bonding*/muxing is a very different approach to increasing your bandwidth. Unlike load balancing, the bits of all clients are spread across all connections. So, unlike the above example, two 1024kbps circuits will equal 2048kbps (and each computer has all of that bandwidth available, unlike above). However this approach is much more expensive. Circuit bonding requires two routers and two devices called "muxs". One router and "mux" is placed at the ISP end and the other router and "mux" is placed at the customer end. You ISP must support this configuration as well, and often times providers will only do this type of connection with T1 circuits.
like I said
I said this
I'm just saying that from my networking experience, creating a setup like you described would take some serious equipment and router scripting. I don't doubt that your claim, I'm just saying that it's more than likely NOT a case of combining both modem's bandwidth.
Ya_know
February 20th, 2003, 08:49 AM
Great links! Thanks.
trippinfool
February 20th, 2003, 12:13 PM
I remember the days when we had dial-on-demand ISDN, when that would drop, I would plug in my modem on my laptop to the analog phone port and dial my modem and get like a 21.2k connection, when the ISDN came back up, I was using both devices to send IP traffic. I would assume 2 NICS, 2 IPs from 2 ISPs, 2 broadband accounts, I could see how it could work. My NIC would communicate on the LAN (IPX Novell traffic), and the modem would be sending the IP traffic to the 'net. So it can be done, I just haven't done it with IP on 2 ports.
smiddy
February 20th, 2003, 06:20 PM
Is there a chance you can provide a block diagram with your setup and explain the states and modes to which it is used. I am having difficulty understanding how you can double your download speeds. Please include your ISP information and an example download file and times while connected via two machines and in singleton. Please include any equipment used in your setup so that we may duplicate your efforts. Thanks!
-smiddy
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