Takes FOREVER to log in....

[MonkeyLord]

Hi!

Just a little background:
We're a small company that's been using a Windows NT 4.0 box for a file server for the past couple years now. We've opted to upgrade to a newer, faster box with Small Business Server 2003

Now, we're having two hangups that are proving to be somewhat irksome:

1. When we login to the new domain on the SBS box, it was cycle though the "looking for user settings" message for almost 4-5 minutes. Logging into Windows NT took only a few moments... With SBS, we're having to wait 4-5 times as long JUST to log in to the new domain. I've been looking through the server's settings, hoping to stumble across what in the world is making it take so long to log people in, but to no avail.

2. This is equally irksome: When you join the new domain for the first time, you literally have to start from scratch with respect to user settings, desktop, etc, even though the only thing that's changed is the domain we're logging in to. How to we get around this?

The rep sure did make this sound as if it was going to be a lot easier than it has thus far turned out to be... ;P

[Ya_know]

What OS are your workstations?

Slow login sounds like you have something buggered up with DNS settings, and the pc's don't know where to look, so you are waiting for a timeout or something, but that's just a guess. I presume you have Internet connection for your site, what is providing the IP's and DNS information for the PC's? And are you using forwarders on the server running DNS (don't know 2003 SBS, but I imagine it isn't too much different than regular server).

As far as the user profiles on the PC needing to be redone, you might try to use the copy profile option in the system properties for each PC. What you do is login to the new domain with the new user, then immediately log out, then back in as the local PC administrator. Then go into the profiles tab (or button if XP) and copy the old profile (the one used in the old domain) over the one for the new domain. I ain't saying this is going to work seamlessly, but it is worth a shot. Try one, and test it out...

Give us some more information, also your background. I get the impression that you aren't IT, but have absorbed the responsibility for your shop...

[Matridom]

i htink ya_know has it right, seems like an issure with DNS

[MonkeyLord]

Ya_know:
Thanks for the reply! And yeah, that's about right. I've done a lot of work on Pcs as a bench tech before coming here, which is how I inhereted the mantle of "Make it work!" ;) My problem is I don't have a lot of experience managing networks... This one is pretty simple and mundane, and I haven't really had to make any major changes since coming here, other than modifying users and permissions and what-not.

Current Setup:
All the client machines (7 machines, all with Windows XP) have a static IP, and are behind a linksys router, through which we access the internet. However, like i said, we have set our own IPs instead of drawing them dynamically from the router.

In fact, all the server really does is act as a common file depository, and runs a login script that maps our network drives whenever you login. (it also backs up our documents and files to an offsite FTP server)

The new server is a Dell PowerEdge 1600SC, with Small Business Server 2003.

Will the DNS cause problems even if the client isn't trying to obtain an address?

Thanks again for the response
- John

PS: regarding user profiles: I tried to find that feature before, and didn't have any luck... maybe i was looking in the wrong place. I'll try that out...

[Matridom]

step one. Make SURE the server is running DNS properly. all nic's on that box should point back to itself for DNS. using "nslookup" is a great way to test the DNS server.

on all the work station, change the dns IP from the router or external ISP's to that of the server, put in the correct DNS suffix.

NT4.0 uses wins and netbios resolution to do everything, 2k/2k3 uses DNS, so it sounds like the infrastructure is not setup for that type of network.

If your unsure how to get it setup, talk your boss into hiring a consultant to help with the configuration. Active Directories is a big beast to learn properly.

[MonkeyLord]

Ugh.... That's not what I wanted to hear... hehe

And actually, I mispoke earlier: It's hanging at the "Applying Computer Settings" message. If that makes any difference at all...

So you're saying that with our current setup, with a router supplying internet connectivity, we should have our machines drawing an IP directly from the server (instead of statically set)?

How do we maintain our internet connection after doing so?

[Matridom]

Ugh.... That's not what I wanted to hear... hehe

And actually, I mispoke earlier: It's hanging at the "Applying Computer Settings" message. If that makes any difference at all...

So you're saying that with our current setup, with a router supplying internet connectivity, we should have our machines drawing an IP directly from the server (instead of statically set)?

How do we maintain our internet connection after doing so?

No, that's not what i'm saying. I'm saying the workstations should be using the server for it's DNS.

windows 2003 provides EVERYHTING through DNS, if it's not set correctly, your workstation has no clue where to find anything (like a profile for example) and as such takes a long time to boot up.

[MonkeyLord]

Ooooooooooh, ok... I see what you're saying. Sorry about the confusion.

Ok, I'll go poking around in the DNS settings and Windows Help to see if I can't come across some magical epiphany. ;)

[Ya_know]

Don't forget to set the forwarders for the DNS server to the ISP's DNS, otherwise the PCs will see the server, login just fine, but typically not be able to find the Internet. Remember that the router internal IP is still the gateway... :thumbs:

The Profile utility is in System properties (right click My Computer, properties), then under Advanced tab, User Profiles button. In win 2k it was it's own tab. ;)

[Matridom]

Don't forget to set the forwarders for the DNS server to the ISP's DNS, otherwise the PCs will see the server, login just fine, but typically not be able to find the Internet.

Only if your DNS is not configured properly. My internal DNS server forwards to nothing. Heck, my ISP's DNS server went out for 8 hours one day, i never noticed. If set properly with recursive queries, forwarders are not needed. Forwarders are used when you want to create a caching DNS server.

[Ya_know]

Only if your DNS is not configured properly. My internal DNS server forwards to nothing. Heck, my ISP's DNS server went out for 8 hours one day, i never noticed. If set properly with recursive queries, forwarders are not needed. Forwarders are used when you want to create a caching DNS server.

Do tell me more!!!

[confus-ed]

Do tell me more!!!

Yeah go on ... I don't think I 'got' where you are going, originally you were saying DNS does it all, ok so if that's 'incomplete' it falls back to wins then netbios ? (hence our delays - while it figures it out)... somewhere though, as per, I got confus-ed :)

[Matridom]

Yeah go on ... I don't think I 'got' where you are going, originally you were saying DNS does it all, ok so if that's 'incomplete' it falls back to wins then netbios ? (hence our delays - while it figures it out)... somewhere though, as per, I got confus-ed :)

that's correct. It's part of a clients dns resolution to try netbios. A client tried to resolve DNS in the following manner.

1. Is it me?
2. Do i have it in my Hosts file?
3. Does the DNS server know it?
4. Does the WINS server have it?
5. Let my do a netbios broadcast to fint it?
6. Does the LMHosts file have it?

Active directories relies on DNS, so it in "theory" could run completly off netbios, HOWEVER it will be slower then molasses (look at the number of steps before it broadcasts). What i was stating is the netbios is not required for and AD domain cause DNS can do it all.

Ya_know, if you look on the "root hint" tab, you should see a list of 13 enteries there. These are the "root" dns servers. With the root hints in place, the dns server will use recusive queries to resolve a host name rather then use a forwarder. If you've enabled forwarders, it will use this in preference to root hints.

[FireAm94]

My problem was taking 10 minutes to login to our domain. Another thing to check is your login script. That's what caused my problem.

Joe

[MonkeyLord]

Thank you so much for the replies! I resolved half the issue...

I went through and re-setup the DNS on the server, and on the client machine, pointed the DNS at the server, instead of our ISP's DSN. Everything seems to be peachy now... Login is quick, and internet connectivity is preserved.

HOWEVER: I still need to get the user settings transferred. When I go to the user settings dialoque, the Copy To option is greyed out. :/

Again, thanks for the replies, you've been a tremendous help

[Ya_know]

Thank you so much for the replies! I resolved half the issue...

I went through and re-setup the DNS on the server, and on the client machine, pointed the DNS at the server, instead of our ISP's DSN. Everything seems to be peachy now... Login is quick, and internet connectivity is preserved.

HOWEVER: I still need to get the user settings transferred. When I go to the user settings dialoque, the Copy To option is greyed out. :/

Again, thanks for the replies, you've been a tremendous help

Are you logged in as the local administrator? You can't be logged in as the new user, (that being the one you are copying to) and I don't suggest that you be logged in as the old user (the one copied from). Local administrator is the key here I think…

[Ya_know]

Ya_know, if you look on the "root hint" tab, you should see a list of 13 enteries there. These are the "root" dns servers. With the root hints in place, the dns server will use recusive queries to resolve a host name rather then use a forwarder. If you've enabled forwarders, it will use this in preference to root hints.

Yeah, I see that now, that's all there by default I guess...I have the forwards in right now, don't want to take that out until I have an empty building. Don't want to mess up someone’s day...I will see how that effects things one of these days. Thanks for the insight...

[MonkeyLord]

Well, it never mattered what i was logged in as... the account i wanted to copy from was ALWAYS grayed out.

It finally mended itself after logging in as that account, and rebooting the machine. For some reason, just rebooting while logged in as administrator (or any other account with admin privs) didn't work... I had to be logged in as THAT user, and reboot. Wierd? Intended functionality? I dunno.

Whatever the case, I was able to log in as the admin there after, and perform the Copy To without a problem.

Everything is peachy now. :)

I MIGHT play with using only the root hints, as suggested earlier... but maybe some other day, when I'm feeling a little more brave. ;P

[Ya_know]

I'd stick with Matt's suggestion to use the root hints. My idea, although seems to work, doesn't seem to be necessary. When I have a chance to test it out, I might even back out of the use of forwarders, if it proves functional...

[Matridom]

I'd stick with Matt's suggestion to use the root hints. My idea, although seems to work, doesn't seem to be necessary. When I have a chance to test it out, I might even back out of the use of forwarders, if it proves functional...

The reason I don't use forwarders is simple. You are now relying on the server that you are "forwarding" to, to do all the resolution. If that remote server goes down, you can only do internal name's resolution or resolve cached names. With root hints, you rely on no-one but yourself. I've always prefered to be self contained then to rely on someone else. I know my skills, I don't know that other persons skills or the reliability of his/her equipment.

The catch to all this is that under 2k/2k3 you must have either an AD integrated zone or a primary zone. if you have just a secondary zone, you must use forwarders.

[Mr T]

The reason I don't use forwarders is simple. You are now relying on the server that you are "forwarding" to, to do all the resolution. If that remote server goes down, you can only do internal name's resolution or resolve cached names. With root hints, you rely on no-one but yourself. I've always prefered to be self contained then to rely on someone else. I know my skills, I don't know that other persons skills or the reliability of his/her equipment.

The catch to all this is that under 2k/2k3 you must have either an AD integrated zone or a primary zone. if you have just a secondary zone, you must use forwarders.

I have to agree with this, dont use forwarders if you dont have to, root hints works just fine, as to usersettings i do like this when switching server.

create new local user named temp.

log in as temp user, then log right of again,

log in as the user whom you wish to move, copy it to the local temp profile, change the permissions on the profile and grant permissions to local admin,

log off, log in as local admin, change to the new domain, log of,

log in as the new user so his profile is created, log of,

log in as local admin, copy temp user profile to overwrite the new userprofile, change permissions to the new user.

Didnt read all the post so somebody might have told you something like this already....

/Mr T

[Ghost_Ryder]

To change profiles thru the registry you must be comfortable with the registry.

start|run|regedit|OK

hkey_local_machine|software|microsoft|windowsnt|cu rrentVersion|ProfileList

Expand Profile List then go thru all the profiles in the list. Find the two you need. The username and domain of the old profile then the username and domain of the profile of the new domain. On the profile for the new domain, highlight in the right pane the key for ProfileImagePath then right click and choose modify. All you have to do now is modify the the path to match the path for the old profile. See Below


%SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\Administrator.domainx to
%SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\Administrator.domainy

[CJK]

You could even use the "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard" under "System Tools" to transfer user profiles to either the same computer or another computer.

[cyberhh]

Mo-Lo - Make sure that when you are trying to copy the profile you are not logged in as the user you want to copy the profile to as several of the files you will be overwrighting will be in use.

You also may not be able to do it because the profiles are from NT 4.0.

You can also move the Favorites, Desktop and My Documents folders as well as any PST files and simply re-create the rest of the data if you find that you are completely powerless on migrating the profiles. (Personally I prefer this method as I like to take this opportunity to remove any non-standard apps and clean the registry.)

Hope this helps.

[giogioforums]

HI all.
After getting crazy for fours months here the solution to save you some pain.
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11184-0.html?forumID=47&threadID=197152&messageID=2311170
Once I've fould out that the workstation service was slowing the all start up / login process with windows XP.
Here I am posting some considerations.
First the problem appear as a very slow login after typing your passord prior the desktop to appear.
The problem also appeared as an infinite need to repair continuously the connection (right clicking on the wireless icon) or often as inability to

connect wirelessly.

The SOLUTION to the problem "login to XP takes forever" is to remove any other software that manages the wireless card and let only the native Windows

Wireless Zero Configuration to handle it but the problem immediately desappear!!!.
Once you unistall any other software excepts the drivers of the wireless card, you must go on control panel/network

connections/advanced/general/properties/wirelss network and click on Use
Windows to configure my wireless network settings which will anable the native Windows Wireless Zero Configuration.

The problem is probably found in many computer that have the intel centrino chip set which uses the Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection but

maybe is with any other wireless
card that uses the intel software to manage.

Myself I did also utilize a second D-Link wireless card which was also utilizing its own software to manage and could work with the native Wireless Zero

Configuration) but it turned out because of the Intel(R) PRO/Wireless manager.
Myself just to be safe I unistalled also the D-Link softwarebut is not really necessary.

TWO MORE IMPORTANT Considerations:
THE PROBLEM DID NOT IMMEDIATELY GO AWAY!
1)
I had to reinstall (from an image I had) the entire operating system and then remove the Intel Wirelss manager from it.If I was not removing the Intel SW

the problem after few hours the problem reappeared (I restored the OS from the image like 30 times so I am certain).
For many people the problem will go away immediately just unistalling the wirelss software but that was not my case.
If you do not want to uninstall the operating system.you may go through a procedure to reset entirely the networking in your OS, I know there is a way to

do it but I never researched it.
(Maybe all you need to do is to remove all network conncections by uninsalling all drivers I chose to restart with a new XP)

2)
I utilize 2 wireless cards and I am having a second minor issue:
IF I DISABLE the wireless switch of my Intel card and connect the 2nd one, the pc still says that there are network available on the 1st. In other words

the card is not entirely off. I use a brand new DELL LATITUDE D820. Maybe this is to avoid the Plug&Play procedure.
As result I see two wireless icons on the bottom right when I only want one and altough the external DLINK says that is correctly connected to the

wireless network, Windows still seem to remain internally connected to the Intel one and as result will still be unable to see a webpage.
In order to "connect" Windows to the correct external network card I must click on its repair button (right click on its icon) and then everything is

ok. Maybe this is another bug of the os which wouldn't come as a real surprise.
I hope this all note will be useful to you and save you a lot of time.
Good luck!
PS
If you find on the web that the prefetcher is the problem.. I think it is not true.