Best way to setup adsl on a simple lan?

[riddellcomp]

I have a friend who currently has 3 desktop computers and a laptop setup in a simple lan. He has just recently purchased adsl and wants to set it all up so all computers can access the adsl connection. What would be the best way to do this?
He was thinking about buying the Netcomm1300B 4 port adsl modem router but will this modem only share the adsl connection out to the 4 computers or will it also share data between each computer also???
(I have never done this before except on my own 2 computer LAN and I used ICS.)
OR....

Would we be better off buying a seperate router/hub (Whats the difference??) and connecting all network computers on one side and the adsl modem on the other??? Is that basically how it works??

If so what type of router brand name etc should we get. If someone could point us to a good website that explains all of this that would be great.

Thanks.

[riddellcomp]

Just to add. He gave me a plan of how it was setup when he had his office back over east.
Would this be the best way to set this up? Does he really need the router and the switch or could he get by with just the router?
Also I noticed that he has one computer setup as the server but Im assuming that in this setup this computer is only called a server in terms of being their main computer that they back up too, and is not actually a server by way of connection setup. (If that make sense)

Here is the plan.



http://members.westnet.com.au/web/htsbme/network2.gif

[confus-ed]

Bloody hell that confus-ed the sh!t out of me - I couldn't understand why everytime I posted a reply it was like eight foot wide !!! - Now I see the 'big Picture' was why !! :D

Basic Networking -- Computer Networking Guides for Beginners (http://www.networkingnext.com/beginners.html)
(Hopefully somebody else can google a better guide for you {that's 'not bad' but not brilliant} - all the refernce ones on my favourites list are dead ! :( ... puts it on 'must do later' pile ..)

In answer to your questions without hopefully digressing into too much techo-babble (which isn't at all helpful with new subjects ! or it isn't with me ..)

router/hub (Whats the difference??)

A hub just splices wires together (in simple terms) while a router translates network addresses from one range to another.

Better with router or hub ?

Almost certainly router ..

How's it all fit to gether ?

Here's a piccy which'll save me a thousand words ! :D

http://www.plus.net/images/adsl_networking_a_general_guide_files/image001.jpg

Ooooo ! you might like to replace your big picture with a bit smaller one & perhaps a link to your 'big one' (aren't you the lucky one ! :D) - it'll make the thread much better (fit in ! - I can't see it all at 1600x 1200 ! never mind at 800 or 1024 which is what most folks will have their screens at)

[riddellcomp]

Sorry about the pic. Ive reduced it a bit but didnt want to reduce it too much or you wont be able to see it.

Thanks for the link I will have a read.

[confus-ed]

Sorry about the pic. Ive reduced it a bit but didnt want to reduce it too much or you wont be able to see it.

Thanks for the link I will have a read.

Yeah that's why I said a 'littler one' & a link to your 'big one' ;) .. but your 'plan' thus far, looks on track :thumbs:

If you've only got 3 machines then you'll only need the bit up to & including the 4 port adsl router you propose (and 3 machines 'hanging' off that) & not the hub hanging off the router anyways ..

You also asked about peer to peer networks (you didn't 'exactly' but its what you are getting at I think) vs client server networks .. yup the first doesn't really have a 'server' each machine 'serves' each other for file shares & the router splits/shares your outside connection ..

[riddellcomp]

If you've only got 3 machines then you'll only need the bit up to & including the 4 port adsl router you propose (and 3 machines 'hanging' off that) & not the hub hanging off the router anyways ..

You also asked about peer to peer networks (you didn't 'exactly' but its what you are getting at I think) vs client server networks .. yup the first doesn't really have a 'server' each machine 'serves' each other for file shares & the router splits/shares your outside connection ..
No its actually three machines and three laptops (exactly as in the diagram) so I assume I will need the switch also?
And thanks for clarifying the peer to peer setup question. He kept telling me about the server but I think its just what they called the main computer, and not that it was a server as such.

[confus-ed]

No its actually three machines and three laptops (exactly as in the diagram) so I assume I will need the switch also?
And thanks for clarifying the peer to peer setup question..

You are welcome ;) My physic Tech Aura came on-line for that bit :) (its a bit tempramental lately - other things to worry about ..)

But yes you'll need another switching device (a hubs fine in this network inside our 'router protected' zone) or look for one with enough ports ... since I now know we have laptops too - what about wireless lan ? Is this in our 'scheme' or did you consider it ? (just to complicate matters .. :D) - if you only do 'occasional' file shares & are principally concerned with sharing your internet connection - this works out real good ... most especially since class g wireless networks (54 m/bits link is plenty to share, to just service any internet connection at home, and not so bad for file sharing within it, if you only do a 'bit') have got so cheap all of a sudden ...

[riddellcomp]

You mean like that???http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[riddellcomp]

The only adsl modem we could get in town is a Billion 4 port router.

Could we use this in place of the current router and still use the switch as in the diagram??

[riddellcomp]

Okay well we managed to get it working sort of.

All three computers can access the internet via the adsl connection. However only some of the computers can access some of the other computers within the network.

Here is a run down The computers are called (SERVER)-XP Pro, (KLARI)-Winme and (BOB)-Winme

SERVER cannot access BOB
SERVER can access KLARI
KLARI can access SERVER and BOB
BOB can access KLARI
BOB can't access SERVER

So basically KLARI can access all machines. But BOB cant access SERVER and SERVER cant access BOB. I know the cable is good becuase we have internet access from all machines. Any ideas???

Here is a diagram of how its setup. It was setup the same as in the diagram above except we took out the router and used the Billion router instead. Also we swapped BOB and SERVER around so the SERVER machine was in the main office. We dont want to simply hook everything up to the router and do away with the switch for two reasons. Firstly because it was previously setup this way it was easier to do it the same way and secondly we ned the extra ports for laptops.
Thanks for the help, we really ned to get this happening.

http://members.westnet.com.au/web/htsbme/netdiag.gif

[riddellcomp]

Pleeaaaaassssse......Someone...................... ...anyone

[MobilePCPhysician]

Here is a run down The computers are called (SERVER)-XP Pro, (KLARI)-Winme and (BOB)-Winme

SERVER cannot access BOB
SERVER can access KLARI
KLARI can access SERVER and BOB
BOB can access KLARI
BOB can't access SERVER

Ok. Sounds like Bob needs to be setup as a user in Server. Create a new user with the same logon name and password that is used to log on to the machine, on the Server. To test this beforehand, just start the guest user on the server and see if Bob can then access the server. If it works, then create the new user as above. Make sure to disable the guest account when you're through...

[riddellcomp]

Ok. Sounds like Bob needs to be setup as a user in Server. Create a new user with the same logon name and password that is used to log on to the machine, on the Server. To test this beforehand, just start the guest user on the server and see if Bob can then access the server. If it works, then create the new user as above. Make sure to disable the guest account when you're through...
Its a peer to peer network. SERVER is only called this and isnt actually a server as such. would your above procedure still apply?? If so when you say "Create a new user with the same logon name and password that is used to log on to the machine, on the Server." Do you mean to do this on BOB or on the SERVER?? Also how would I do this? I know how to create user accounts on an XP machine but I thought they were just that "User accounts" on that particular machine and had nothing to do with a network?

[confus-ed]

Its a peer to peer network. SERVER is only called this and isnt actually a server as such. would your above procedure still apply?? If so when you say "Create a new user with the same logon name and password that is used to log on to the machine, on the Server." Do you mean to do this on BOB or on the SERVER?? Also how would I do this? I know how to create user accounts on an XP machine but I thought they were just that "User accounts" on that particular machine and had nothing to do with a network?

Yes . ( you need an account for the incoming connection)

You pick-ed the 'daft' names ;)

& user accounts in xp have everything to do with permissions - which is what this is all about :)

& a 'useful link' (http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/filesharing.htm) (which if you read it all I think will un-confuse you ;)

[riddellcomp]

Thanks for the replys. I printed out the instructions on the link you gave me confus-ed and it makes more sense now. BOB is already setup as a user on SERVER however it may be setup wrong so I will do it again.


Thanks again.

[riddellcomp]

Well I tried what you guys suggested but no luck. We turned on the guest account in SERVER and tried to access SERVER from BOB but still it wouldn't work. The error message we are getting is along the lines of SERVER could not be reached. There may not be a permanent connection to the network.
There is already a user account setup on the SERVER machine called BOB and we were using the same username and password to log onto the BOB machine.

This network worked fine before with a router and a switch and the only thing we have done differently is swapped the router for an adsl router and also swapped over BOB and SERVER where BOB now connects to the switch and SERVER connects to the router instead of the other way round, (Note the difference from my first diagram at the start of the post to my second diagram.) We did however put all machines directly to the router to see if this would help but it made no difference.
One thing I did notice was that when I go to the View workgroups option in the XP machine (SERVER) It shows two machines (KLARI) and (BOB server). Im wondering if maybe originally BOB was actually the server and it was a client server setup. The machine SERVER was only named that as that it where they backed up their files too (If you get what Im saying.) If so could this be the problem?? Just a thought.


I really need help with this and it would be great if someone was willing to step me through it on Messenger or something. As the adsl connection works fine on all machines Im sure our connections are fine and that we are almost there.

Thanks in advance.

[riddellcomp]

confus-ed,

Ive just been reading more info at the website you gave me and I came across something that could be our problem. It says that the error message we are getting is common when a firewall is blocking access. Both SERVER and BOB have Nortons security installed. However we did enable the Ip address range on both of these machines as 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.106. Could this be the problem though? I can't disable them now as I am at home but will try it tomorrow. If it is the firewall though how come the adsl connection can still get through??? What do you reckon???

[shanff]

You've got a dsl router now, since you've obviously NAT'd the network from the outside world you won't need as much protection for right now. Get rid of Norton security on all machines that apply and check to see if that works. Don't forget to remove all settings and if a cleaner is available from Symantec to clean the registry of those settings get that too. This will eliminate any firewall connectivity issues. If it works after that, then apply norton security on one pc and run it like that for a while to see if everything works then install on the other.

confus-ed,

Ive just been reading more info at the website you gave me and I came across something that could be our problem. It says that the error message we are getting is common when a firewall is blocking access. Both SERVER and BOB have Nortons security installed. However we did enable the Ip address range on both of these machines as 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.106. Could this be the problem though? I can't disable them now as I am at home but will try it tomorrow. If it is the firewall though how come the adsl connection can still get through??? What do you reckon???

[riddellcomp]

Thanks Shanff,

I will give what you suggest a try. Is it possible for the adsl connection to still get through even if the network traffic is blocked by the firewall? I thought the firewall would have blocked everything?

[confus-ed]

I really need help with this and it would be great if someone was willing to step me through it on Messenger or something. As the adsl connection works fine on all machines Im sure our connections are fine and that we are almost there...

I think you are ;) if you are like above ! .. follow shanff's advice on removing any localised firewall software for now (yup we can indeed add it back later for 'whitelisting' & extra security later) right now its just making this hard !

As for hardware firewalls stopping 'everything' they stop 'ins' not 'outs' - you initiate the connection with web access via your browser & any subsequent 'ins' are thereore 'ok' by your firewall ..

Personally if I give advice on the boards then I prefer, unless its something 'iffy' to answer as threads like this, so other folk can follow it later, but if you want to pm me we can try & arrange a time for me to be 'here' & try while you are 'there' if you like ? ;)
But I think you are very 'close' already .. we just need to pull it all together at once. .

[riddellcomp]

Thanks guys for the help. We couldn't do anything yesterday as we were on red alert from the cyclone and had to stay inside. But today I phoned my mate and told him to disable the firewall on SERVER and call me back.


And yes you guessed it..It worked. I should have thought to do that in the first place as I had the same problem when setting up my LAN and my webserver.
I should have learnt by now.
He told me that he had opened a hole in the firewall for the router and the other machines and I didn't want to double check his work in front of him.

Im assuming we can leave the firewall disabled on this machine as we now have the router???
I just need to add a printer to BOB and KLARI that is connected to the SERVER.

Thanks again for the help.