indixing eating up HD space

[Momoman907]

Here's one for you guys, and hopefully somebody here knows something I don't. Didn't realize I had left indexing on when I installed XP a year ago. I have 2 80 gig drives and lots of partitions. My C:\ drive is 15gig, only WinXP and small stuff like WinRar, etc installed on it. Now I added up what's installed, 5.1 gig, and Windows says I have 2 gig free. Do the math, you'll see the problem. Booting with Partition Magic and checking the drive. I found out that my missing free HD space is being used up by Windows Indexing. Now I have shut down the indexing service, deleted the cataologs, etc. I managed to retrieve I gig.

Any Gurus out there have an idea of what I should try next to acquire access to that 8 gig of space.

[NooNoo]

Have a look at system restore next.... If thats been on for a year, you will have lots of restore points.

[Momoman907]

Have a look at system restore next.... If thats been on for a year, you will have lots of restore points.
Sorry, I should have mentioned that I have removed all but the most recent restore points as well. It's definitely an indexing issue. Just how to gain access to that space once again, this is the question.

[NooNoo]

You have system and hidden files showing?

[Momoman907]

Now I would be a total NEWB if I answered no to that. Of course I am displaying hidden and system files. Just not sure what file name or extension to look for. You see, this is the first time I failed to turn off indexing since my first install of Win2K, many , many moons ago.

[Ya_know]

Alright, I am going to go out on a limb here, because I just don't understand what it is your are talking about. What Indexing are you refering to??? And what did you turn off?

Keep me in the loop here! ;)

[Ya_know]

Alright, I am seeing and Indexing service. Is that what you are talking about? Mine seems to be stopped, and set to manual by default...

[geoscomp]

Usually indexing is on by default on XP..have you tried just defragging now that you have the indexing turned off?

[Momoman907]

Don't take this wrong but how would defragging my drive return almost 8 gig of used space. There obviuosly has to be a file or folder holding a record. And by the way, I use DiskKeeper to defrag. I have also run Scandisk and every other Windows Utility including those that come with PM8.

[edball]

I think it uses this.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_aixf.asp

[craigmodius]

how about FolderSize (http://extech.net/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=2) a free program that gives a listing of how big each file and folder in a drive or directory is.

It's free and fast.

[craigmodius]

If the FolderSize program doesn't point out any obvious problems. The other things I would consider are your swap file size. Binary vs. Decimal (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=615&p_created=1034613413&p_sid=bv4LIZ8h&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD02NjkmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=) Capacities, and file system overhead (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q314875)...

Because space for file data can be allocated only in whole cluster amounts, even a 1-byte file uses a whole cluster's worth of disk space on a FAT volume.

(think of a 1 byte file on 512 bytes per sector hdd)

But these don't seem like they would add up to 9 gigs of a 15 gig drive, but combine them together...

is the drive fat32 or ntfs? got any Linux partitions etc?

[Momoman907]

If the FolderSize program doesn't point out any obvious problems. The other things I would consider are your swap file size. Binary vs. Decimal (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=615&p_created=1034613413&p_sid=bv4LIZ8h&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD02NjkmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=) Capacities, and file system overhead (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q314875)...



(think of a 1 byte file on 512 bytes per sector hdd)

But these don't seem like they would add up to 9 gigs of a 15 gig drive, but combine them together...

is the drive fat32 or ntfs? got any Linux partitions etc?
Okay, I should mention that I work as a programmer and have been repairing computers since the 80's. This is just something I have never come across before other than turning it off during an install. Guess back when I did the install I had a "doh!" moment.

It's NTFS and I have already checked folder sizes, etc. DiskKeeper displays my missing free space as a big blotch of red fragmented files. Partition Magic 8 clearly states that I am using almost 9 gig for indexing. Indiexing has been turned off, catalogs deleted, drives defragged, and I have run ScanDisk as well. Note, I mentioned in my original post that C:\ only has WinXP and a few small utillities installed on it. And my swap file is reported as using 1.2 gig.

And I have been searching the MS knowledge base looking for answers. Guess just one more thing MS doesn't want us to know about.

[Ya_know]

Or me. I still don't know what the F### you are talking about?

All my PC's log into a domain, Indexing is turned off by default on all of them (you are referring to the service right?). Is there something different when the PC is setup as a workgroup member, where it defaults on?

And how is it even possible that Indexing is causing your problem...oh, that's right, because PM told you so. Have you at least done a properties search to determine where the offending date is being stored. Manually checking properties for each folder until you find it, then drill into the folders and do the same until you locate what is taking up 8 gig of data?

I am so confused at this point???

[geoscomp]

So you have a big bunch of fragmented files, and defrag didn't work. I assume since you are a programmer, you know to run defrag in safe mode with all unnecessary services turned off in order to access as many as possible locked files..and if defrag isnt defragmenting these files, the defrag report will tell you exactly what they are so you can delete them manually..

And when you ran chkdsk..(not scandisk in xp) you did it with the /f switch to force repairs

And you have cleaned out everything from the prefetch file

your swap file is really 1.2 gb?

btw, Ya-Know..I think he's referring to disk indexing..an xp service designed to speed up searches.

[Momoman907]

So you have a big bunch of fragmented files, and defrag didn't work. I assume since you are a programmer, you know to run defrag in safe mode with all unnecessary services turned off in order to access as many as possible locked files..and if defrag isnt defragmenting these files, the defrag report will tell you exactly what they are so you can delete them manually..

And when you ran chkdsk..(not scandisk in xp) you did it with the /f switch to force repairs

And you have cleaned out everything from the prefetch file

your swap file is really 1.2 gb?

btw, Ya-Know..I think he's referring to disk indexing..an xp service designed to speed up searches.

Bingo, disk indexing, that's exactly what I am talking about. The service has been disabled, etc. Sorry if I had left some confusion. However, I have been avoiding going into safe mode and defrag from there. Safe mode has a bad habit of messing up my desktop. Will give that a try when I get home from work.

[Ya_know]

Disk Indexing, I don't see. I see Indexing service...

And I am still wondering why, of 40+ PC's that I have here running 2k or XP, plus the ones at home, this service is off and set to manual by default...I know that I didn't turn them off, and I loaded every single one of them.

Is it because they are all on a domain and yours is setup as a workgroup???

[Vip2]

Bingo, disk indexing, that's exactly what I am talking about. The service has been disabled, etc. Sorry if I had left some confusion. However, I have been avoiding going into safe mode and defrag from there. Safe mode has a bad habit of messing up my desktop. Will give that a try when I get home from work.

Check your Temporary Internet Files folders. Just clearing them is not enough (they do not clear). To delete their contents do: RMDIR /s "<DriveLetter>:\Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files" at the CMD prompt. Do this for all user profiles as well. Also, do a RMDIR /s "<DriveLetter>:\Windows\Temporary Internet Files" Then while you are at it do a RMDIR /s "<DriveLetter>:\Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Local Settings\Temp" to remove the Temp files do this on all user profiles as well. (THE QUOTES ARE PART OF THE COMMANDS). Be very careful with this command there is no going back. Then change the maximum amount of space for the Temporary Internet files to 10MB in Internet Options on all user profiles.

By default my Temporary Internet Files was set to 1355MB!!! I do not use IE anymore so I set the cache to 2MB just for Windows Update.

You have probably already done this but, check to make sure that Allow Indexing is unchecked it the Properties for each drive letter in My Computer. When it asks to Confirm Changes say Apply changes to all sub folders. This can take a long time depending on the amount of files on you drive.

Last options that I can think of right now:
You can do a search for files >10MB and see if you can find the offending file(s).

There may be a Hibernation file in your Root directory Turn off Hibernation in Power Options (unless you use it). This one usually is only as big as the amount of memory you have.

Swap file may be Corrupt, turn off the swap, reboot, turn it back on.

Check for $NtUninstallQ######$ folders in the Windows directory (these are the uninstalls for all those Windows Updates) they can be deleted as long as you don't plan to uninstall one of them.

Good Luck!

[0diin1]

Momoman907 I don't want to come across wrong but since I am replying to your post based on the info you have posted. And you know we techs are always trying to diagnose with a crystal ball when it's not in front of us. You had mentioned earlier that your drives are NTFS is that correct? Craigmodius touched on this a little earlier but do you realize that by using NTFS, you have a certain overhead that the filesystem itself takes when the drive is partitioned initially? So you really NEVER get that advertised size for actual use. If you go into "My Computer" and look at the properties of that drive, the size it reports as "capacity" is just that, what is left that can be used AFTER the filesystem overhead. This amount is exponential to the actual overall physical hard drive size. A simple 40 Gig uses somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 Gigs. I have a Seagate 120Gig that is formated NTFS and I only have 111 Gigs usable space (120-9=111 Gigs). I just purchased a Maxtor 250Gig on Tuesday and formated it and only have about 230 Gigs usable (250-19=231 Gigs). Believe me I was upset over those 19 Gigs after paying close to $200 for that drive!! So for your 80 Gig drive/s, the space you are missing (8 Gigs is it??) sounds close to correct. I hope that is your case and not some hidden M$ thing.

Odiin

[Momoman907]

Momoman907 I don't want to come across wrong but since I am replying to your post based on the info you have posted. And you know we techs are always trying to diagnose with a crystal ball when it's not in front of us. You had mentioned earlier that your drives are NTFS is that correct? Craigmodius touched on this a little earlier but do you realize that by using NTFS, you have a certain overhead that the filesystem itself takes when the drive is partitioned initially? So you really NEVER get that advertised size for actual use. If you go into "My Computer" and look at the properties of that drive, the size it reports as "capacity" is just that, what is left that can be used AFTER the filesystem overhead. This amount is exponential to the actual overall physical hard drive size. A simple 40 Gig uses somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 Gigs. I have a Seagate 120Gig that is formated NTFS and I only have 111 Gigs usable space (120-9=111 Gigs). I just purchased a Maxtor 250Gig on Tuesday and formated it and only have about 230 Gigs usable (250-19=231 Gigs). Believe me I was upset over those 19 Gigs after paying close to $200 for that drive!! So for your 80 Gig drive/s, the space you are missing (8 Gigs is it??) sounds close to correct. I hope that is your case and not some hidden M$ thing.

Odiin
First, thank you to everyone as I know you are all trying to help. The only thing I haven't removed is the uninstall files. And yes, maybe I should as I am pretty sure I'll never uninstall any of those. But they would of course show up as used space.

0diin1, the first computer I fixed was an 8086, actual, versus physical has been around a long long time. We're not talking a little space missing here. We're not talking purchasing an 80 gig HD and being silly enough to wonder why it does not format to 80 gig, about 76 gig or so. Going from memory, this is what I get when I do properties on my C:\ partition.

Size 15.2 gig
Used space 5.1 gig
Free 2.15 gig

You see, I cannot regain access to almost 8+ gig of space available on my C:\ partition. If I ever track down what's occupying that 8 gig. I'll be sure to let everyone know.

There are a few suggestions here worth taking a shot at and of course, more investigation. And I know it's a total Bch to try and resolve a problem when not at the scene of the crime. I'm sure patience will prevail and this will be tracked down.

And I should add. The only reason I am concerned about this is I figured 15 gig would be plenty for all those Updates and patches that have been rolling off the good ole MS presses. With SP2, not to far off. You get the picture.

[Vip2]

Momoman907 I don't want to come across wrong but since I am replying to your post based on the info you have posted. And you know we techs are always trying to diagnose with a crystal ball when it's not in front of us. You had mentioned earlier that your drives are NTFS is that correct? Craigmodius touched on this a little earlier but do you realize that by using NTFS, you have a certain overhead that the filesystem itself takes when the drive is partitioned initially? So you really NEVER get that advertised size for actual use. If you go into "My Computer" and look at the properties of that drive, the size it reports as "capacity" is just that, what is left that can be used AFTER the filesystem overhead. This amount is exponential to the actual overall physical hard drive size. A simple 40 Gig uses somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 Gigs. I have a Seagate 120Gig that is formated NTFS and I only have 111 Gigs usable space (120-9=111 Gigs). I just purchased a Maxtor 250Gig on Tuesday and formated it and only have about 230 Gigs usable (250-19=231 Gigs). Believe me I was upset over those 19 Gigs after paying close to $200 for that drive!! So for your 80 Gig drive/s, the space you are missing (8 Gigs is it??) sounds close to correct. I hope that is your case and not some hidden M$ thing.

Odiin

Partially true but remember that companies define a byte as 1000 not 1024 when quoting space on their drives, so, a 250MB drive is really only a ~244MB drive. Its the similar thing with CRT monitors and the tube size vs. the visible size (a 15" monitor but you can only see 13.5").

The rest of the space goes to clusters. Think of clusters as little boxes. Each box can only have one file in it. If a file is to big to fit in that box it will spread itself to another box and another until it is completely stored. If a file is too small for the box the rest of the space in the box is unusable so the next file takes up a new empty box.

If you have 512 byte clusters a 1 byte or even a 0 byte file will take 512 bytes of space so a bunch of these files can take a lot of space.

NTFS, if I remember correctly, calls these Allocation Units and has a choice of 512 bytes 1024 bytes 2048 bytes or 4096 bytes. IMO it is best to pick the lowest number possible when formatting a drive.

[freddy]

First, thank you to everyone as I know you are all trying to help. The only thing I haven't removed is the uninstall files. And yes, maybe I should as I am pretty sure I'll never uninstall any of those. But they would of course show up as used space.

0diin1, the first computer I fixed was an 8086, actual, versus physical has been around a long long time. We're not talking a little space missing here. We're not talking purchasing an 80 gig HD and being silly enough to wonder why it does not format to 80 gig, about 76 gig or so. Going from memory, this is what I get when I do properties on my C:\ partition.

Size 15.2 gig
Used space 5.1 gig
Free 2.15 gig

You see, I cannot regain access to almost 8+ gig of space available on my C:\ partition. If I ever track down what's occupying that 8 gig. I'll be sure to let everyone know.

There are a few suggestions here worth taking a shot at and of course, more investigation. And I know it's a total Bch to try and resolve a problem when not at the scene of the crime. I'm sure patience will prevail and this will be tracked down.

And I should add. The only reason I am concerned about this is I figured 15 gig would be plenty for all those Updates and patches that have been rolling off the good ole MS presses. With SP2, not to far off. You get the picture.

get yer sp2 here,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/sp2preview.mspx

[Ya_know]

Vip2 brings up a very valid point about the cluster size. You have partition magic. If I recall, you can run it and it will tell you what the Allocated unit size (cluster size) is. I am curious as to what you have going there, perhaps you are using an excessively large size, and losing it to a bunch of miniature files that are taking up a very small amount of each of these clusters. That said, I think PM has the ability to resize this...but man what a can of worms that will be...doing it to a system partition that is…

[Momoman907]

Vip2 brings up a very valid point about the cluster size. You have partition magic. If I recall, you can run it and it will tell you what the Allocated unit size (cluster size) is. I am curious as to what you have going there, perhaps you are using an excessively large size, and losing it to a bunch of miniature files that are taking up a very small amount of each of these clusters. That said, I think PM has the ability to resize this...but man what a can of worms that will be...doing it to a system partition that is…

Once again going by memory, I'm 99.9% sure I am using 4K clusters. And I have in the past used PM to resize a system partition without issue. And for the record, not on this install. Pm is pretty safe, but with any tool of this type, extreme care and caution is needed, as well use only when absolutely necessary.

[Momoman907]

Once again going by memory, I'm 99.9% sure I am using 4K clusters. And I have in the past used PM to resize a system partition without issue. And for the record, not on this install. Pm is pretty safe, but with any tool of this type, extreme care and caution is needed, as well use only when absolutely necessary.

And the answer to the magic question, "where has all my free space gone"? What is "CLDMA.LOG = 6.21gig"

Did a search for files greater than one gig and bingo.

Thank you everyone for your efforts. I hope someday I can contribute here in the same way.

[freddy]

And the answer to the magic question, "where has all my free space gone"? What is "CLDMA.LOG = 6.21gig"

Did a search for files greater than one gig and bingo.

Thank you everyone for your efforts. I hope someday I can contribute here in the same way.
googled from another site
It is a file of diagnotic generated by Power DVD. In my opinion you can throw it, but I can be mistaken. You also can re-elect it and test Power DVD and see what occurs. You can also write with the company to announce your problem to them

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/cs/support/faq.jsp?ID=1233 bottom of page

[Momoman907]

googled from another site
It is a file of diagnotic generated by Power DVD. In my opinion you can throw it, but I can be mistaken. You also can re-elect it and test Power DVD and see what occurs. You can also write with the company to announce your problem to them

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/cs/support/faq.jsp?ID=1233 bottom of page
Found that link as well, already toasted the log file as I rarely use PowerDVD. Just feels good to have found where that space had gone and got it back.

[Ya_know]

Found that link as well, already toasted the log file as I rarely use PowerDVD. Just feels good to have found where that space had gone and got it back.

Next time...I hate to do this to you, but you need to not think you know everything. Several people told you to search the hard drive for large amounts of data, I know I did at some point. You could have solved this problem a long time ago if you trusted someone else’s instinct… :thumbs:

[Momoman907]

Next time...I hate to do this to you, but you need to not think you know everything. Several people told you to search the hard drive for large amounts of data, I know I did at some point. You could have solved this problem a long time ago if you trusted someone else’s instinct… :thumbs:

Check the dates and times. I was replying from work and had to wait until I got home to do a check by file size. I did just that, the evening you posted. Chill a bit and remember people have lives beyond the computer. I did the check, found the issue, defragged, and proceeded to do work around teh house and spend time with my wife. The next day I posted success, and what the issue was.

[Ya_know]

Sorry, I don't have time to check the dates. My life is too important too... :p

[Momoman907]

Sorry, I don't have time to check the dates. My life is too important too... :p
No probs Ya_know. We are all guilty of flying around pages trying to help and miss something. No offence taken, as I can see you have good intentions.