Scary - Life expectancy in 7 African countries now less than 40 years

[hudsonsmith]

Saw this in the newspaper this AM. A new study by the UN indicates that the life expectancy in 7 African countries has dropped to less than 40 years due to the AIDS epidemic. For some of these countries, this is more than a 30% drop in 10 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/16/international/africa/16afri.html (You don't need to subscribe to read this, although you may need to register.)
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/07/15/international/0716AFRICAch.gif

[Ya_know]

That is sad.

[Cleetus]

South Africa shouldn't be too far behind either.

[techs]

Where's Sally Struthers when you need her?

[Escape_Driver]

But George Bush has cut funding to any AIDS program that teachs condom useage....

[meatwad]

But George Bush has cut funding to any AIDS program that teachs condom useage....

Yeah, it looks like it was working wonders.

[Ya_know]

But George Bush has cut funding to any AIDS program that teachs condom useage....

And that effects the African countries how???

[jitBob]

And that effects the African countries how???
Come on now. Teaching condom useage as a means of preventing STD's makes perfect sense.

[techs]

Come on now. Teaching condom useage as a means of preventing STD's makes perfect sense.

I don't know. No one ever had to teach me condom usage. I figured it out for myself.
:eek2:

[ilovetheusers]

But George Bush has cut funding to any AIDS program that teachs condom useage....


George Bush signed off on a huge AIDS relief package for Africa and liberals bitched about spending. FYI.

[ilovetheusers]

Come on now. Teaching condom useage as a means of preventing STD's makes perfect sense.


The issue is that African men will not wear condoms and labor under illusions like having sex with virgins cures AIDS. BTW - see above post.

[meatwad]

How about education. We'll just drop pamphlets everywhere that say, "Stop f***ing anything that moves! Pick a person and go with it! Keep the needles out of your arms!" Think that would work?

[jitBob]

How about education. We'll just drop pamphlets everywhere that say, "Stop f***ing anything that moves! Pick a person and go with it! Keep the needles out of your arms!" Think that would work?
You forgot about the part that goes: quit having sex with animals!

[meatwad]

You forgot about the part that goes: quit having sex with animals!

Good point goat f***er.

[Ya_know]

You forgot about the part that goes: quit having sex with animals!

Do they do that in Aferica???

[Escape_Driver]

George Bush signed off on a huge AIDS relief package for Africa and liberals bitched about spending. FYI.

The USA doesn't even have a delegate at the world AIDS conference... Because they see condom usage as a way to fight HIV.... Bush however says the abstinence is the only way it should be fought... But there is no OIL in those countries...

[meatwad]

Do they do that in Aferica???

Arkansas, Scotland, Africa. Whatever.

[hudsonsmith]

What also doesn't help are all the genocidal local wars where they go into villages, kill all the men, and rape all the women.

[Ya_know]

The USA doesn't even have a delegate at the world AIDS conference... Because they see condom usage as a way to fight HIV.... Bush however says the abstinence is the only way it should be fought... But there is no OIL in those countries...

You're blaming the AIDS Epidemic in the African nations on BUSH? You're reaching man!

[Escape_Driver]

You're blaming the AIDS Epidemic in the African nations on BUSH? You're reaching man!

No I'm saying the narrow mindedness of Bush and the Catholic church in saying that Condom useage is a Sin is fu(king helping solve the problem...

Is he the cause No... Is he part of the solution Nope...

[Ya_know]

No I'm saying the narrow mindedness of Bush and the Catholic church in saying that Condom useage is a Sin is fu(king helping solve the problem...

Is he the cause No... Is he part of the solution Nope...

Still, you're reaching. And you're wrong.

[meatwad]

Why isn't he part of the solution? Just stop f***ing anything that moves. It's more effective than condoms so why not do that?

[Escape_Driver]

So why do we sell condom here ??? I mean if they don't need them to safely have sex why do we need them in north america ???

[Ya_know]

So why do we sell condom here ??? I mean if they don't need them to safely have sex why do we need them in north america ???

You're starting to come off like a retard now...why don't you try to elucidate your point so I can stop laughing, and maybe start taking you a little seriously...

[inferno_gn]

Hi there,

Humans' life expectancy is around 40-50 years old, eating minimunly, without any medication.

Ju Leon...

[ilovetheusers]

You're starting to come off like a retard now...why don't you try to elucidate your point so I can stop laughing, and maybe start taking you a little seriously...


e·lu·ci·date v. e·lu·ci·dat·ed, e·lu·ci·dat·ing, e·lu·ci·dates

v. tr.
To make clear or plain, especially by explanation; clarify.

v. intr.
To give an explanation that serves to clarify. See Synonyms at explain.


Hi there,

Humans' life expectancy is around 40-50 years old, eating minimunly, without any medication.

Ju Leon...

Yeah, but there are a lot of nice areas of africa that are not rural and are like living in the 1st world. The main issue is that AIDS is spreading like wildfire due to the lack of condom use. Lack of condom use stems from a variety of sources like non education, religion, political beliefs, etc.



In a nutshell, a huge segment of Africas population will die from AIDS related complications. It sucks. There's little that people can do now, it's too late and there's still no cure in site.

[Zil]

Interesting how I don't see any other country stepping up to the plate to offer 15 billion dollars over some years to help Africa with AIDS.

The UN has conference after conference about poverty, AIDS, etc, but as usual, does NOTHING but talk. Then they expect the US to bankroll/do everything and cries when we don't want to participate.

[jitBob]

Good point goat f***er.
What'cha talkin' 'bout Willis?

[meatwad]

Maybe they just can't find any condoms that fit. It is Africa that we're talking about here.

[Escape_Driver]

Ok lets try another point that show Bush doesn't give a rats *** about HIV in africa :

The focus of their concern is Washington's continued refusal to permit U.S. aid money to be used to buy life-preserving generic anti-retroviral (ARV) drugs manufactured in developing countries, such as India, Thailand, and Brazil that are much cheaper than brand-name drugs produced by "Big Pharma," as the major western drug companies are known.

They also oppose the Bush administration's demand in recent negotiations for new trade agreements with poor countries, including Thailand and the countries of Central America, which they agree not to produce or import generic versions of new drugs developed by U.S. drug manufacturers for at least five years from the date that they first come to market..

Link (http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/90043/1/)

These drugs could save millions

[meatwad]

Ok lets try another point that show Bush doesn't give a rats *** about HIV in africa :



Link (http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/90043/1/)

These drugs could save millions

The drugs don't save anything! They delay the inevitible unless a CURE is found. The best cure right now is to burn the drug out by NOT SPREADING IT. Condoms are not a 100% solution to prevent the disease sexually. Abstinence is. So why spend money on a solution that has flaws in it, when you can spend it on a solution that works all of the time?

[Escape_Driver]

So tell everyone to stop having sex ???

[meatwad]

So tell everyone to stop having sex ???

Now you're getting it. :thumbs:

[Cleetus]

Now you're getting it. :thumbs:
Bury your head in the sand :thumbs2:

[Escape_Driver]

We can't do that here why should we preach it there ???

Condom, Education, Not having Sex, Aids drugs so that there are not millions of parentless children. This would fix the problems !!!

[meatwad]

We can't do that here why should we preach it there ???

Condom, Education, Not having Sex, Aids drugs so that there are not millions of parentless children. This would fix the problems !!!

So it's that much easier to tell a bunch of men in third world nations to stick a plastic bag on their junk when they want to do it, but keep in mind you could get sick anyway?

[Escape_Driver]

Yes it is... What you just want to tell them not to have sex ??? Sex is going to happen lets help reduce the risk of infection

[meatwad]

You can't MAKE someone wear a condom, just like you can't MAKE them not want to have sex. The important thing is to tell them how stupid they are and to smarten up.

[Escape_Driver]

It takes two people to have sex... If they both want to you can't stop them... but if one or both say use a condom ??? Thats better odds..

[meatwad]

It takes two people to have sex... If they both want to you can't stop them... but if one or both say use a condom ??? Thats better odds..

So who's stopping them?

[Zil]

So it's that much easier to tell a bunch of men in third world nations to stick a plastic bag on their junk when they want to do it, but keep in mind you could get sick anyway?

LOL

or

"Zip your fly and you won't die."

[Cleetus]

It takes two people to have sex... If they both want to you can't stop them... but if one or both say use a condom ??? Thats better odds..
You have no clue how much rape and cultural differences there are do you?

[jitBob]

You have no clue how much rape and cultural differences there are do you?
If they are killing and raping each other, why do they call it "cultural" ? I could have sworn that culture had an entirely different meaning.

[meatwad]

If they are killing and raping each other, why do they call it "cultural" ? I could have sworn that culture had an entirely different meaning.

1. The growing of microorganisms, tissue cells, or other living matter in a specially prepared nutrient medium.
2. Such a growth or colony, as of bacteria.

I don't know. Sounds about right.

[Escape_Driver]

So what your saying is that we should tell them not to have sex.... Well we know how well that works with teens and young adults..

[meatwad]

So what your saying is that we should tell them not to have sex.... Well we know how well that works with teens and young adults..

Whatever was being done before doesn't seem to have been working.

[jitBob]

1. The growing of microorganisms, tissue cells, or other living matter in a specially prepared nutrient medium.
2. Such a growth or colony, as of bacteria.

I don't know. Sounds about right.
Culture
1. Tillage (tilled land)
2. The training or or refining of the intellectual or behavioral faculities
3. Care given to the growth and developement of plants and animals
4. The propagation of bacteria, as for scientific use
5. Civilization

[meatwad]

Oooooooh. Rainbooooows. Oh, I like those, those are cool.

[jaeger]

Ok lets try another point that show Bush doesn't give a rats *** about HIV in africa :



Link (http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/90043/1/)

These drugs could save millions

Ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[jaeger]

Three paths to a solution:

1: Find a cure - Not sodding likely, we haven't managed to cure a virus yet, the immune system has to do that.

2: Prevent infection - The most likely solution. Condoms can help and vaccines are being worked on. This approach relies heavily on sex education that hasn't worked in the past ten years. As cruel as it sounds, the problem with Africans not integrating scientific facts in their approach to AIDS and HIV will eventually solve itself. The educated will live and breed, the uneducated will die.

3: Speed it up - Bad sci-fi crap. Make it kill faster, so carriers can't transmit it.

I think you can tell where I place my bets. I think we should be spending the majority of the money earmarked for the subject on education and a vaccine. Sorry for the poor bastards that already have it, but they have a death sentence anyways, and there isn't a whole helluva lot we are likely to be able to do about it for quite a while. I look at Africa as a continent of triage, we need to spend our money and time where it will do the most good.

[GrandDad]

No I'm saying the narrow mindedness of Bush and the Catholic church in saying that Condom useage is a Sin is fu(king helping solve the problem...

Is he the cause No... Is he part of the solution Nope...
techs is that you ? http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/eye2.gif
did ya'll change your name ?

[Jediab]

Driver why dont you get your government to match the amount that Bush has promised then decide to use it all on condoms.

Oh wait. How much was it that Canada promised?

[techs]

techs is that you ? http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/eye2.gif
did ya'll change your name ?

No he's not me. If he had been me he would have posted this link:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/07/17/us_again_denies_money_to_population_fund/

Which shows the Bushies are still advocating:
"US officials emphasized abstinence as an important way to combat AIDS"

And we all know how well abstinence is working here in the US.

[meatwad]

No he's not me. If he had been me he would have posted this link:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/07/17/us_again_denies_money_to_population_fund/

Which shows the Bushies are still advocating:
"US officials emphasized abstinence as an important way to combat AIDS"

And we all know how well abstinence is working here in the US.

Nothing is working. That's the point of this thread.

[techs]

Nothing is working. That's the point of this thread.

I definitely agree with that.

[NooNoo]

How do you explain abstinence to a husband and wife?

[techs]

How do you explain abstinence to a husband and wife?

I thought they were the only people you didn't need to explain it to.
:)

[jaeger]

How do you explain abstinence to a husband and wife?

Closed husband/wife relationships aren't contributing to the AIDS epidemic.

[confus-ed]

Closed husband/wife relationships aren't contributing to the AIDS epidemic.

Errrr - anal sex is considered by many in Africa as a 'normal' method of contraception ! Also visiting a prostitute when the 'moons up' or during pregnanacy are widely accepted - add that to total ignorance & ...

Also without stupid 'copyright' laws the Africans could manufacture all the anti-retroviral drugs they needed to stop or at least slow the process by ensuring pregnant women get them routinely ..Aids in Africa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/africa/2000/aids_in_africa/casestudy_sa.stm)
..The dispensary here is keeping its own supply of Nevirapine. I'm bringing it in to give it to them. We have to have good security because this is going to be popular stuff. You give the Nevirapine to women in labour, and then three drops are given to the baby after birth, and that's it! One tablet for the mother, three drops for the baby, end of story! You can save half the babies that would have been born with HIV..

[NooNoo]

Closed husband/wife relationships aren't contributing to the AIDS epidemic.
Jaeger, it is not often that you are totally wrong, but this is one occasion that I shall bookmark.

[jaeger]

Jaeger, it is not often that you are totally wrong, but thisis one occasion that I shall bookmark.

Uhm, I did say closed. Worst case scenario: One partner comes into the marriage with AIDS and gives it to the other. They then conceive. With a closed marriage, you have two definite virals and one possible viral. That is not enough to keep an epidemic going as that path of infection should end with either the parents or the child. I assumed we were refering to primarily the sexual transmission in this discussion. Are you refering to the vulnerability to bad needle habits in many areas of Africa, namely reusing the same needle on many people to administer medicines? Or are you refering to inadequate testing to discover infections?

I'm judging based on the best way to stop the epidemic, not on preventing individual infections. Closed husband/wife relationships, even if they result in infected children, do not spread the virus far enough and fast enough to compete with other vectors, such as promiscuity, superstition, and bad needle habits.

I see where I made a mistake. Instead of "aren't contributing" I should have said "aren't contributing in a statistically critical way." The latter is what I meant.

[NooNoo]

Alot of the other countries providing financial and medical support in this disagree with you and the US government.

[techs]

What is really sad is a dog or a cat in America gets better health care than the average African.

[meatwad]

Alot of the other countries providing financial and medical support in this disagree with you and the US government.

But how does what jaeger is saying not make sense?

[hudsonsmith]

Was away for the weekend. Glad to see this sparked some serious discussion. I found this on the UN Population Fund website http://www.unfpa.org/africa/hivaids.htm
No single factor, biological or behavioural, determines the spread of HIV infection. Most HIV transmission in sub-Saharan Africa occurs through sexual intercourse, with unsafe blood transfusions and unsafe injections accounting for a small fraction.

While sexual behaviour is the most important factor influencing the spread of HIV in Africa, that behaviour varies greatly across cultures, age groups, socioeconomic class, and gender. Sexual behaviour is itself influenced by a host of factors, ranging from the daily and pragmatic (such as economic and social circumstance), to the complex and abstract (such as culture).

For example, higher numbers of sexual partners has consistently been found to be associated with greater likelihood of HIV infection, but the chances of individuals engaging with commercial sex workers, and thus having more partners, is clearly enhanced when large numbers of single, migrant men live together. These communities of single, male migrants (such as those in the mining communities of southern Africa, for example) have been established as a result of a complex interplay of economics and history. And this is only one example. Forced migration due to war, long-term travel along transit routes for commercial reasons, and the lack of secure livelihoods are other factors.

The interplay of multiple factors obscures causal linkages and prevents categorical conclusions. A study in four African cities (Cotonou, Kisumu, Ndola and Yaoundé) revealed that the most common behavioural and biological factors in those cities with the highest HIV prevalence were: young age at women’s first sexual intercourse; young age at first marriage; age difference between spouses; the presence of HSV-2 infection and trichomoniasis (a sexually transmitted infection); and lack of male circumcision. There is substantial evidence that sexually transmitted infections enhance the risk of sexual transmission of HIV, while other analyses suggest that male circumcision may be associated with reduced risk of transmission.

Young women have consistently been found to have higher prevalence rates of HIV infection than men of the same age group. The assumption that this results from women having sex with older men suggests a possible inter-generational driver of the infection from men to women.

Young women are also physiologically more susceptible to sexually transmitted infections than young men. For instance, in Kisumu, Kenya, in 1998, the prevalence of HIV infection among women aged 15–19 was 23%; among young men the same age, it was 3.5%. Sociocultural systems in many cases also limit women’s control over their sexual lives.

In addition, a large share of sub-Saharan Africa’s population is young and, therefore, more likely to be sexually active. This helps explain the higher incidence of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.

Where these facilitating factors are absent, HIV infection can remain ‘hidden’ for many years. In the presence of social, socioeconomic and biological factors that facilitate spread, however, the epidemic may grow at a rapid rate. While the complex interplay of factors makes it difficult to estimate the likely growth of the epidemic, evidence from the past decade shows that HIV can spread rapidly and widely from very low general seroprevalence levels. All countries with risk factors must employ the range of policies and programmes available (detailed throughout this report) so as to avoid a high-prevalence epidemic.

[hudsonsmith]

Interesting table re: funding sources. http://www.unfpa.org/africa/funding.htm

Looks like 11% of the contributions in 2001 came from Billy Boy. Got to give credit where it is do.

[meatwad]

Interesting table re: funding sources. http://www.unfpa.org/africa/funding.htm

Looks like 11% of the contributions in 2001 came from Billy Boy. Got to give credit where it is do.

Indeed. Whatever his motive or reasons (I believe he actually does want to do good with that money) he does use that money for some really great things.

[Orangeman]

You're starting to come off like a retard now...why don't you try to elucidate your point so I can stop laughing, and maybe start taking you a little seriously...

And you wonder why people were 'picking on you' during our discussion about political theads?????

Some people never learn....:sad: