Prayer in Scnool

[Cleetus]

I think it has no place as a school sponsered activity. You are there for learning, pray on your own time.

[edball]

I think it has no place as a school sponsered activity. You are there for learning, pray on your own time.
I'm with you.http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Ya_know]

I'm not ready to vote. Someone start a debate for the pro's vs. the con's so I can formulate a desision here...cause "don't_know" don't cut it...Yo!

[Ya_know]

One other thing, jsut waht si Scnool???

[jitBob]

I'm not ready to vote. Someone start a debate for the pro's vs. the con's so I can formulate a desision here...cause "don't_know" don't cut it...Yo!
Pro: Keeps the weenies all in one place.
Con: Keeps the weenies all in one place.

There, now I got you started.

[Cleetus]

I'm not ready to vote. Someone start a debate for the pro's vs. the con's so I can formulate a desision here...cause "don't_know" don't cut it...Yo!
It is really simple, do you believe that prayer should be an alloted time in our public schools? And why?

[Vergence]

I voted yes because I think prayer should be 'allowed' in school, but not a teacher-sponsored event (like the pledge). I'm sick and tired of people saying they want state and religion separate when what they really mean is that they want religion to only happen in Church and government gets free run of the rest of society. Religion influences politics, plain and simple. If a kid wants to pray he is allowed to do so, ANYWHERE. A teacher on the other hand should not run an organized prayer because he/she is not to 'endorse' a specific religion. BTW I don't consider the Pledge an 'organized prayer.'

[jitBob]

It is really simple, do you believe that prayer should be an alloted time in our public schools? And why?
No. Religion has no place in public (tax payer paid) schools. We as a nation should remain dedicated to the principal of separation of church and state.

[jitBob]

I voted yes because I think prayer should be 'allowed' in school, but not a teacher-sponsored event (like the pledge). I'm sick and tired of people saying they want state and religion separate when what they really mean is that they want religion to only happen in Church and government gets free run of the rest of society. Religion influences politics, plain and simple. If a kid wants to pray he is allowed to do so, ANYWHERE. A teacher on the other hand should not run an organized prayer because he/she is not to 'endorse' a specific religion. BTW I don't consider the Pledge an 'organized prayer.'
Religion is how you worship your God, kneeling, bowing your head, wearing special clothes or your hair a special way. It is not the same as believing in a God. You can pray to God anywhere, wheither aloud or silently.

[Major Kong]

I'm agin' it and I'll tell ya know why...let's just say jitbob nailed it perfectly in both his post. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[TripleRLtd]

It is really simple, do you believe that prayer should be an alloted time in our public schools? And why?Putting it that way, I have to say no. But, with the caveat that is is alright if students choose to do so on their own. Even so far as having "Christian" groups allowed to use facilities as after school events.

[edball]

Putting it that way, I have to say no. But, with the caveat that is is alright if students choose to do so on their own. Even so far as having "Christian" groups allowed to use facilities as after school events.
And Buhdhist, Hindu, Jewish, Zeus, and Sun worshippers, etc,etc.http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[techs]

God no.

[techs]

And by the way should this have been a public poll? :)

[Ya_know]

I think it has no place as a school sponsered activity. You are there for learning, pray on your own time.

I am going to go against the grain here on this one...for the simple reason being that you weren't specific enough on the time allotted, and what sort of method was used to determine what should be restricted/allowed when referring to religious activity.

I don't think students should be lead in prayer like the pledge by the staff of the school. I do however think that children should be allotted a moment to offer a silent prayer perhaps, or crack open a bible or whatever, without being persecuted by the students, the staff, and the school boards of various states, even so much as suspending kids for praying. Also, if a group wants to organize for say a brief bible study at lunch or recess, or even after school on school grounds, it shouldn’t be prohibited, but perhaps controlled to ensure that the ideas aren’t overstepping any boundaries, and that no other rules are being broken. But to ban religious activity entirely is not such a good thing.

Just the same that it is our right to separate church from state, it is also our right to embrace one while attending the other, or not at all if that's our individual choice.

[Vergence]

I am going to go against the grain here on this one...for the simple reason being that you weren't specific enough on the time allotted, and what sort of method was used to determine what should be restricted/allowed when referring to religious activity.

I don't think students should be lead in prayer like the pledge by the staff of the school. I do however think that children should be allotted a moment to offer a silent prayer perhaps, or crack open a bible or whatever, without being persecuted by the students, the staff, and the school boards of various states, even so much as suspending kids for praying. Also, if a group wants to organize for say a brief bible study at lunch or recess, or even after school on school grounds, it shouldn’t be prohibited, but perhaps controlled to ensure that the ideas aren’t overstepping any boundaries, and that no other rules are being broken. But to ban religious activity entirely is not such a good thing.

Just the same that it is our right to separate church from state, it is also our right to embrace one while attending the other, or not at all if that's our individual choice.

[POINTS AT YA_KNOW]

There! Ya_Know summed it up better than me. That's very much what I meant, I just didn't 'articulate' it as well. (Side note: is there a word for 'articulate' which applies to writing?)

[Major Kong]

I was kept out of 8th grade football practice for three days because I didn't want to lead the class in the Lord's Prayer...http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/sad2.gif

Public School in Henrico County Virginia 1971. I was suspended on a Monday and reinstated on Thursday. According to the Principle it was just a...umm...misunderstanding.http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Well that and my parents raising holy hades with the school board rep from our area. The very next year there was no school prayer at all (my situation didn't have anything to do with the decision). Funny that was the one and only time I was ever suspended from any activity during my school years. Kollege skoolin' ain't countin'! http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Ya_know]

[POINTS AT YA_KNOW]

There! Ya_Know summed it up better than me. That's very much what I meant, I just didn't 'articulate' it as well. (Side note: is there a word for 'articulate' which applies to writing?)

Vote for Ya_know in Paliticos Presidents thread... :thumbs:

[Ya_know]

I was kept out of 8th grade football practice for three days because I didn't want to lead the class in the Lord's Prayer...http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/sad2.gif



And see, that's what people hate about religion, when it's forced on them. So I understand where you're coming from and what happened was wrong! But at the same time, it should be an option to say a prayer as well. You are just not required to participate...its called free will...and we should embrace that!


Vote Ya_know for Politicos '05!

[Cleetus]

I have no problem with people quietly praying on their own, or making their own bible groups. As long as it is not on school time. With all the moaning and complaining about the quality of education today, I would think anything that would distract or take time away would be a bad thing.

[Ya_know]

I have no problem with people quietly praying on their own, or making their own bible groups. As long as it is not on school time. With all the moaning and complaining about the quality of education today, I would think anything that would distract or take time away would be a bad thing.

In bold, there's your first mistake. :p

[techs]

Posted byMajor Kong
Well that and my parents raising holy hades with the school board rep from our area
Pun?

[Cleetus]

In bold, there's your first mistake. :p
Typical right wing morals, at all costs insult your opponent.


Nice :thumbs2:

[Major Kong]

Posted byMajor Kong

Pun?
Nope Stone Cold Fact...I rekkin' I could have stated it as Holy Hell, but that might be more of a Virginia term to y'all Yankees who don't grok such quaint colloquialisms. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ya_know]

Typical right wing morals, at all costs insult your opponent.


Nice :thumbs2:

There you go attacking me just because I am right...nice!

Vote Ya_know for Politicos!

[meatwad]

Public school is for public learning. Religious school is for religious learning. The way my High School worked, we did the pledge of allegiance in the morning followed by a one minute moment of complete silence for prayer, reflection, maybe remember someone who had passed away, whatever you wanted as long as you were still and silent and respectfull of everyone else in the room. Some kids would make the sign of the cross after they were done if they wanted to pray, others just went to their seat after the moment.

[Larommi]

no religion if they dont teach spelling :D

[amyb]

If it's a privite religious school then yes. If it's a public school, no.

[gazzak]

I voted yes.

My daughter is 6 and just finished year 1. She has been taught religion already at school and about praying. She now says prayers before she goes to bed, (totally voluntary), and at assembly at school. She has also started to insist she says grace before evening dinner, (which is not something we have done much of before), and it's something I am starting to like. I certainly don't have a problem with it. It makes her ask questions about religion and god, (maybe I should give her Adepts e-mail address), and a choice about wether she follows it up or not in later life.

Because her school is multi-national she has also been taught about other religions and beliefs and is a lot more knowledgeable than me about it. It can only be a good thing.

My only reservation would be at secondary school (12 and up) when they should be given the choice, but at an early age they should be given every opportunity to learn about the world around them, including religion and prayer.

[paraflyer]

With all the moaning and complaining about the quality of education today, I would think anything that would distract or take time away would be a bad thing.

You're absolutely right. So along with religion, let's also get rid of school-sponsored sporting events, extracurricular clubs.......

Not that I'm religous, but isn't giving kids education with no moral compass (or in this case, suppressing it) even worse?

The way I see it, the separation of church and state doctrine seems to do no more than prevent pledging allegience to a God and replacing that to elevate government to "godhood".

That's why there's a big push to eliminate "the 10 commandments" from all government buildings.....those housed within do not wish to be reminded of their shortcomings, nor do they want to hold the idea that there may be a power greater than theirs.

[techs]

I am pretty surprised at the overwhelming NO vote.

[Ya_know]

My only reservation would be at secondary school (12 and up) when they should be given the choice, but at an early age they should be given every opportunity to learn about the world around them, including religion and prayer.

Actually, you bring up a valid point, and didn’t' capitalize on it...so I will.

A large portion of religion is a basis for most of history. I remember studying Greek and Roman Mythology as a history...it was a religion...but it gave us a perspective on the time, and what people did and believed...I found that quite interesting. If you ban religion, you ban a lot of important history, or at very least an open discussion on the reasoning behind the actions. What about the Salem witch trials, the Spanish inquisition, countless wars, and geographical designs as regions changed all due to religion, and so many other things I have long since forgotten? (been out of school way to long!)

Bottom line is, if you want to ban religion, you will be banning far too much of the curriculum too...that is if you try to remain consistent, and that is a bad thing.

[Cleetus]

I don't see a problem with religion and teaching it, but practicing it is differetn. Practicing the prayer, or the communion, or goat sacrificing or whatever. It doesn't need to be in there.

The 10 commandments thing, so you want a tablet out there saying that you can only pray to the one God?

I mean look at 4 of them

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'


What does this, almost half of them, have to do with our laws and our judicial system?

[jitBob]

You're absolutely right. So along with religion, let's also get rid of school-sponsored sporting events, extracurricular clubs.......

Not that I'm religous, but isn't giving kids education with no moral compass (or in this case, suppressing it) even worse?

The way I see it, the separation of church and state doctrine seems to do no more than prevent pledging allegience to a God and replacing that to elevate government to "godhood".

That's why there's a big push to eliminate "the 10 commandments" from all government buildings.....those housed within do not wish to be reminded of their shortcomings, nor do they want to hold the idea that there may be a power greater than theirs.
And how is the Rev. Jerry Falwell these days?

[RejectionMan]

Moment of silence i can agree with (in most cases read on), how ever a class prayer no.

Why: Freedom of Religion. which is why i also have a problem with the moment of silence. Many religions donot practice prayer standing or for only one minute.. so this would infringe on their religeous freedom. I wish I knew about this stuff when i was in Grade school, i would have spent a lot less time in detention for monkeying around during prayer (damn mormons run public school)

So no it should not be a school sponsored event but it should be supported, if a group of students or a student has religeous needs then we should respect that, but we should not force one way of thought on everyone. So unless the moment of silence changes its format to be more accepting (if you have to kneel then it should be allows, if you need more time then you should be excused from class ect...) then no, the student will have to do it on there own time.

[Stalemate]

Yes, of course.

Practitioners of Islam in particular require regular times of prayer throughout the day, and so if they happen to be on school property when that time occurs, then that's just the reality of it.

I recall praying before exams, challenging sports events, etc. on my own, in private.

While I can understand the need for restrict religious practices sanctioned by the school itself, there is no way it can legislate what people do in matters of spirituality regardless of whether it is a public (government) building as long as it does not interfere with the regular schedule and workload students have.

That being said, I think there's a fine line between how a person discreetly practices his faith and the government's reach into that right that needs to be better defined and refined.

Seperation of church and state never intended for the government to legislate how or where people practice their faith - especially not in public.

[Wayward Clam]

I am pretty surprised at the overwhelming NO vote.

Why?