Are Jewish people smarter than average?

[techs]

There are 5.8 million Jewish people in America(and 4.8 million in Israel).
Yet everywhere you look it seems we hold positions in government, academia, entertainment, medicine, law, etc. Are we smarter? More driven?
Are we not more prominent but it just seems that way because people only take notice when someones a Jew but don't when their not?
I brought this up cause yesterday a customer "complimented" my work with a remark "You Jews are just so smart".
Should I have felt Offended? Complimented?
I know I feel good that someone thinks I'm smart but another part of me thinks I know some really stupid Jews. Maybe I should introduce one to your daughter?

[Archer]

It could be the way your people [if you'll excuse the expression] have been treated throughout history has made them more motivated to succeed in business or it could just be you being Jewish and noting your own cultural peoples status more than those of others.
As to the compliment[?]I would take it as an indication of the persons inability to separate culture or birth place from a persons ability so showing an underlying trend in his social engagements to be biased by colour or creed [a very 30s statement if I might say].

[inferno_gn]

Hi there,

No one is.

Ju Leon...

[Jediab]

There are 5.8 million Jewish people in America(and 4.8 million in Israel).
Yet everywhere you look it seems we hold positions in government, academia, entertainment, medicine, law, etc. Are we smarter? More driven?
Are we not more prominent but it just seems that way because people only take notice when someones a Jew but don't when their not?
I brought this up cause yesterday a customer "complimented" my work with a remark "You Jews are just so smart".
Should I have felt Offended? Complimented?
I know I feel good that someone thinks I'm smart but another part of me thinks I know some really stupid Jews. Maybe I should introduce one to your daughter?


Are you Jewish by heritage or by being a convert? Some people view Jews as a religion, some view it as a race. How do you look at it? Just courious.

[Wayward Clam]

You know, the absolute biggest argument against the thesis of Jews being smarter than everybody else is the fact that you came here, SAID you were a Jew, and THEN advanced that thesis... :rolleyes:

[Ya_know]

This thread offends me, as I am not a Jew. I don't think any one race is smart, or dumb, but by posting this thread, in this manor, I have to wonder...... :p

[Wayward Clam]

I swear, it must be some kind of conjunction of the planets or something. Here I am agreeing with Ya_Know AGAIN. :eek2:

[Archer]

Well we all know how smart you are Ya_know :p :D

[Ya_know]

I swear, it must be some kind of conjunction of the planets or something. Here I am agreeing with Ya_Know AGAIN. :eek2:

Vote Ya_know for Politicos '05! :thumbs:

[amyb]

This thread offends me, as I am not a Jew. I don't think any one race is smart, or dumb, but by posting this thread, in this manor, I have to wonder...... :p
I agree with you there.

[Cleetus]

What the hell are yall bitching about now?

He said there are a lot of non-smart Jews and that he was upset by the deragatory(sp?) statement. What if he was black or a chick or something else, would yall b bitching up a storm about that too?

[meatwad]

Unfortunately Techs I could also say that most of the Jews I know are a**holes. Do you want me to go around promoting that too? I don't think that it's because they're Jews, it's just cause their a**holes.

[Cleetus]

Unfortunately Techs I could also say that most of the Jews I know are a**holes. Do you want me to go around promoting that too? I don't think that it's because they're Jews, it's just cause their a**holes.
Look again a$$hole, he is saying that he doesn't understand why people bring up the jew ****, not that he is endorsing it.

[gazzak]

It was a compliment made by someone who's not constrained by political correctness. Hats off to him!

[Ya_know]

Look again a$$hole, he is saying that he doesn't understand why people bring up the jew ****, not that he is endorsing it.

Ok...

Yet everywhere you look it seems we hold positions in government, academia, entertainment, medicine, law, etc. Are we smarter? More driven?

Look at his post one more time. The whole thing reeks of condescension...phuck him and his holier than thou attitude! There I said it! You want to defend him fine, I don't respect the thread one bit, and you wont change my mind.

[WebHead]

Genetics are what determine your strengths and weaknesses. It could be possible for certain types of people to possess certain strengths and weaknesses based on their culture, geography, upbringing, etc. In the end, I think it really all boils down to each individual though.

[Cleetus]

Are we not more prominent but it just seems that way because people only take notice when someones a Jew but don't when their not?

Keep reading sir

[Ya_know]

Keep reading sir

I read the whole thing three times, and still again...the whole post stinks!

[Cleetus]

And honestly Ya_know, you just perfectly exampled what pisses me off about the entire way the right winged media portrays things to the idiot public. You take the small part of what was said and make it sound all horrid while leaving out the rest of what was said. He was building up to a point, but you left it completely out. So you go off half'cocked making false accusations on something that isn't even true. It happens time and time and time again. Yet the idiot public takes it for a fact and eventually even main stream press starts picking it up as gospel truth while everyone forgets what was originally said. Just the message you took from an incomplete piece and shoved down our throats.


That is exactly what I am so pissed off about with the entire mentality of the right wing, and exactly why I will not vote for a single Rep candidate. And back to my other point that you all having just been glossing over, Bush is at the fore front of this movement, who better to attack then the figure head to try to take some steam out of this divisive engine that is tearing this country apart.

[Cleetus]

I read the whole thing three times, and still again...the whole post stinks!
SO you made up your mind, closed it back up and won't think about what was said? Oh yeah, perfect Republican candidate :rolleyes:

[Ya_know]

That is exactly what I am so pissed off about with the entire mentality of the right wing, and exactly why I will not vote for a single Rep candidate.

Great, we finally get to debate politics...I was worried this thread might get moved to the lounge... :p

So you are saying that you are going to vote on party affiliation alone, and not listen to the platforms of each candidate??? I know I can find a post of two of your where you said emphatically that the biggest problem with voters is just that very concept!

Way to fly off of the handle, instead of proving a point, you just stepped on your dick!

[Cleetus]

Great, we finally get to debate politics...I was worried this thread might get moved to the lounge... :p

So you are saying that you are going to vote on party affiliation alone, and not listen to the platforms of each candidate??? I know I can find a post of two of your where you said emphatically that the biggest problem with voters is just that very concept!

Way to fly off of the handle, instead of proving a point, you just stepped on your dick!
Um actually, you can find several posts as well where I say that I am looking for a third party(candidate) that more fits with my "values" or needs....

Want to try again?

[techs]

I read the whole thing three times, and still again...the whole post stinks!

It's Politicos. Its the place to talk about this kind of controversial thing.
I wonder if you realize how often I hear what happened yesterday. Most people who say it to me think they are being nice. And I don't hold it against them. I decided to post it to see what people thought. Especially when you consider the amount of people in this country (and others) who say that Jews control Hollywood, Banking, Medicine and even the Whole World.
This also brings up the theory of natural selection. Is intelligence genetic and can you increase a race or groups intelligence through natural selection? Is it possible that after thousands of years of persecution were the intelligent Jews better equiped to survive and were therefore naturally selected?
btw I am half-Russian, half-Polish and was born Jewish as is all the ancestors I am aware of.
Is it OK to say a positive things about someones race but not a negative?

[Ya_know]

SO you made up your mind, closed it back up and won't think about what was said? Oh yeah, perfect Republican candidate :rolleyes:

Fact is, all I have to go on is the original post, and that’s what I don’t like. Techs has yet to retort to my disgust. That's ok, I know he's good for a promising explanation when he has time. One thing is for certain he DOESN'T need your protection and help. Why don't you let him and I hash this out, then when we are done you can play with the scraps. :thumbs: Or you could just go on..and on…and on…

[Cleetus]

This also brings up the theory of natural selection. Is intelligence genetic and can you increase a race or groups intelligence through natural selection? Is it possible that after thousands of years of persecution were the intelligent Jews better equiped to survive and were therefore naturally selected?


All right dude, you just lost me on that one

[techs]

Fact is, all I have to go on is the original post, and that’s what I don’t like. Techs has yet to retort to my disgust. That's ok, I know he's good for a promising explanation when he has time. One thing is for certain he DOESN'T need your protection and help. Why don't you let him and I hash this out, then when we are done you can play with the scraps. :thumbs: Or you could just go on..and on…and on…
We must have posted at the same time. See above.

[Ya_know]

Um actually, you can find several posts as well where I say that I am looking for a third party(candidate) that more fits with my "values" or needs....

Want to try again?

As long as they are not Republican...I see... :thumbs:

Continue to prove my point...

[Cleetus]

As long as they are not Republican...I see... :thumbs:

Continue to prove my point...
What point, they have proved not to be what I want. So now there is a crime to rally against them while looking for my own party?

[Ya_know]

.
This also brings up the theory of natural selection. Is intelligence genetic and can you increase a race or groups intelligence through natural selection? Is it possible that after thousands of years of persecution were the intelligent Jews better equiped to survive and were therefore naturally selected?


Being sure to leave out all of the other things you said (contexts isn't helping anyway)...are you sure you don't want to reword or perhaps omit this? This is the condescension I am ticked off at. If you want to come in here with this debate, cool, but by being Jewish, and asking for justification to feel like a smart person because you are (this is exactly how I perceive it)…you aren’t going to get that justification from me.

[Camaro80z]

Is it OK to say a positive things about someones race but not a negative?


In this PC crap filled world of today, you are correct. Unless you are talking about white people. You can portray them as the devil and no one cares. :devil:





P.S. I just want to say That I will not look at you any different because you are Jewish. You are still the same left wing liberal nutjob you have always been! :thumbs:

[Ya_know]

All right dude, you just lost me on that one

See, sometimes it's not about jumping the gun, it's about taking a closer look at the person saying it, and the history of his remarks. You were trying to do the same to me, but missed out on digging deeper with techs instead... :thumbs:

[Ya_know]

What point, they have proved not to be what I want. So now there is a crime to rally against them while looking for my own party?

So you denounce every single person in the party, without listening to the platforms of any? Keep going, you are making this just too easy for me... ;)

[techs]

All right dude, you just lost me on that one

Natural selection talks about how the most successful members of a species are the ones most suited to succeed. And that their "traits" will be passed on. For example a bird with a longer beak may be better able to get bugs out of a tree. Therefore the members of that bird species with longer beaks will survive bad seasons. Eventually all members of that species will have a longer beak.
Is this true for intelligence? Are children of smart parents on average smarter?
Following this if a race of people were put in a situation where being intelligent gave them a reproductive advantage and if intelligence could be at least partially inherited could it be possible for a race to be on average smarter?
Once again I am merely opening this for discussion.

[Cleetus]

So you denounce every single person in the party, without listening to the platforms of any? Keep going, you are making this just too easy for me... ;)
When did I ever say I never looked into the Rep platform? More infering there Ya_know, you keep making this easy for me ;)

And honestly, if we do attack, take them down a couple of notches, bring up a third party...maybe, just maybe then the Rep will actually stick to the platform and not the politics. Same with the faltering Dem's as well.

As is, I just love bashing on "right wing" people. It is fun.

[amyb]

What this thread about again? :devil:

[Cleetus]

Natural selection talks about how the most successful members of a species are the ones most suited to succeed. And that their "traits" will be passed on. For example a bird with a longer beak may be better able to get bugs out of a tree. Therefore the members of that bird species with longer beaks will survive bad seasons. Eventually all members of that species will have a longer beak.
Is this true for intelligence? Are children of smart parents on average smarter?
Following this if a race of people were put in a situation where being intelligent gave them a reproductive advantage and if intelligence could be at least partially inherited could it be possible for a race to be on average smarter?
Once again I am merely opening this for discussion.
So are you asking that if because you are Jewish, half Pole half Commie Russian than you are smarter just cause of your religion and natural selection?

No, I cannot help you with that. I thought, and if I am wrong then I will be the first here to apologize, that you were making a statement against the thought process that rants on the control of the jews, while in reality you are no different then anyone else and are only thought of that way because of some prejudices against jews.

Like I said, if I am wrong, let me know and I am man enough to apologize to Ya_know.

[hudsonsmith]

The world is filled with conspiracy theories about the jews controlling the government, media, banking system, etc. These theories are regularly cited by Al Qaeda, PLO, neo-Nazis, etc. The propagation of stereotypes regarding jews being smart or successfull is no better than the propagation of these conspiracy theories. I am offended and think you should be too.

Don't get me started on natural selection. Goes right back to that nonsense about blacks being better athletes due to genetics. Its all rubbish.

[Archer]

What this thread about again? :devil:
Its about how complimentary and buddie buddie people can be despite their political and economic viewpoint :rolleyes:

[amyb]

Its about how complimentary and buddie buddie people can be despite their political and economic viewpoint :rolleyes:
oh, ok. anyone for a brewski?

[techs]

The world is filled with conspiracy theories about the jews controlling the government, media, banking system, etc. These theories are regularly cited by Al Qaeda, PLO, neo-Nazis, etc. The propagation of stereotypes regarding jews being smart or successfull is no better than the propagation of these conspiracy theories. I am offended and think you should be too.

Don't get me started on natural selection. Goes right back to that nonsense about blacks being better athletes due to genetics. Its all rubbish.

Don't get me started shows that you like others have very strong feelings aobut this.
I also think you got my point. I was not claiming to be smarter cause I'm Jewish. I just am smart. But the intelligence of Jews seems to be a great cause of concern in the world.
Also, the belief that Jews "control" many things and there is a great international conspiracy of Jews.
They must not like me because they never invited me into their club? :)

[amyb]

I think you got my point. I was not claiming to be smarter cause I'm Jewish. I just am smart. But the intelligence of Jews seems to be a great cause of concern in the world.
Also, the belief that Jews "control" many things and there is a great international conspiracy of Jews.
They must not like me because they never invited me into their club? :)
It could be that some ignorant people are just jealous and wonder why they can't have things handed to them and not work hard for what they want.

[meatwad]

Don't get me started on natural selection. Goes right back to that nonsense about blacks being better athletes due to genetics. Its all rubbish.

It makes sense though when you think about the breeding that went on during the time of slaves. I don't put too much faith in that though when you consider that any advantages from that would probably have been undone after a few generations. A sad reminder of some of the horrible things in our countries past.

[techs]

It makes sense though when you think about the breeding that went on during the time of slaves. I don't put too much faith in that though when you consider that any advantages from that would probably have been undone after a few generations. A sad reminder of some of the horrible things in our countries past.

Yes, I have heard that too. That Africans who were kidnapped and brought to America were chosen for their physical strength. And that as slaves the survivors were the strongest and they passed on this trait.
I honestly don't know.

[Ya_know]

As is, I just love bashing on "right wing" people. It is fun.

That's the twisted part...I love being bashed... :p

[WebHead]

As long as they are not Republican...I see... :thumbs:

Continue to prove my point...

Are there points being made in this thread? Weird,.. I haven't found any so far. :confused:

[Ya_know]

Don't get me started on natural selection. Goes right back to that nonsense about blacks being better athletes due to genetics. Its all rubbish.

Ok, so you are saying that Black people genetically aren't faster, more agile, and don’t typically excel far past other races in almost every physical challenge or contest? That’s a different argument then intelligence in the Jewish community…first of all, the big difference is race, as opposed to cultural/religion. But if you wish to let it slid I will let it go…

[Ya_know]

Natural selection talks about how the most successful members of a species are the ones most suited to succeed. And that their "traits" will be passed on. For example a bird with a longer beak may be better able to get bugs out of a tree. Therefore the members of that bird species with longer beaks will survive bad seasons. Eventually all members of that species will have a longer beak.
Is this true for intelligence? Are children of smart parents on average smarter?
Following this if a race of people were put in a situation where being intelligent gave them a reproductive advantage and if intelligence could be at least partially inherited could it be possible for a race to be on average smarter?
Once again I am merely opening this for discussion.

But physical attributes and intellectuality are two completely different things. Natural selection wasn’t designed to justify or explain intelligence, only physical attributes as they evolve over time.

Maybe that’s where you are losing my respect with all of this. You are looking for a scientific reasons why Jews are smart, when you should be looking for a social reason why Jews are depicted in the way that you described, a history lesson of sorts. That would have made a far more honest debate. As it stands, your topic sucks on the merits of your speculation, therefore it only stands to reason you should get such hostility.

[Ya_know]

Are there points being made in this thread? Weird,.. I haven't found any so far. :confused:

I hope I just made one above...

[hudsonsmith]

Ok, so you are saying that Black people genetically aren't faster, more agile, and don’t typically excel far past other races in almost every physical challenge or contest? That’s a different argument then intelligence in the Jewish community…first of all, the big difference is race, as opposed to cultural/religion. But if you wish to let it slid I will let it go…
Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder

[Zil]

IMO, the title of the thread just already sets up a superiority complex that asks if one race is smarter than the "average" human.

"Are Jewish people smarter than average?"

So what if people think that Jewish people are smarter? It's better than having your race/religion/state stereotyped as one of the more "stupid" or "lazy" ones.


For instance, when you stereotyped us Texans as (paraphrasing) "stupid Texans who don't produce any scholars or philosophers" from one of your previous threads. This thread just adds fuel to the fire that you are a condescending jerk.

[meatwad]

Here's the way I see it. People of a particular culture, race, religion (whatever) generally spend a lot of time with people of that same culture, race, religion (whatever). They are our families. They are the ones who teach us growing up, who were taught by the parents and so on all the way up. Historically people have tried to start their own families with others who are very similar to them. Thus, you have the same values, gentetic attributes, beliefs (whatever) being carried down through the generations. This is where "stereotypes" come from. Cultures that have been labled with these "stereotypes" generally will boast about the good ones and denounce the bad ones.

Example: I am of French decent. The French have the stereotypes of being snobby, whiney, bitchy little weaklings. I fit into all of those stereotypes pretty well. They also tend to be very creative and artistic. I'm not that artistic, but I would definitely consider myself creative.

Not everyone will fit into all parts of their "stereotype" and some won't fit any. With the way the world is now, a lot of these cultures are breeding to other cultures. The stereotypes will start to blur and we'll all turn into greyling visitors abducting people from their planets so we can shove probes up their a**es. We just need to be patient and survive until then. :thumbs:

[Ya_know]

Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder

Wait a minute, I never said anything about slave breeding techniques...that was meatwad, so go back and quote him if you want to take that platform.

All that I am saying is that it's obvious when you look at athletes today, blacks dominate every sport except hockey. I don't know why that is, but it's a statistical certainty...prove that wrong in some way...

[Archer]

I believe its to do with having a lighter skeletal bone structure which may give an advantage in some sports much the same as saying many Asians are naturally shorter than Europeans and may excel where a shorter frame has its advantages.

[edball]

Wait a minute, I never said anything about slave breeding techniques...that was meatwad, so go back and quote him if you want to take that platform.

All that I am saying is that it's obvious when you look at athletes today, blacks dominate every sport except hockey. I don't know why that is, but it's a statistical certainty...prove that wrong in some way...
What about weightlifting or wrestling or swimming,etc ?

[meatwad]

Wait a minute, I never said anything about slave breeding techniques...that was meatwad, so go back and quote him if you want to take that platform.

All that I am saying is that it's obvious when you look at athletes today, blacks dominate every sport except hockey. I don't know why that is, but it's a statistical certainty...prove that wrong in some way...

Oh Jesus, I'm gonna get flamed for this.

One reason is that Hockey is one of the most expensive sports to play (sticks, pads, helmets, skates etc.). Now so is football, but football's popularity means that it tends to get more funding in schools and special programs so the players have less of a financial burden to play.

[imaeditedbysowulo]

Wait a minute, I never said anything about slave breeding techniques...that was meatwad, so go back and quote him if you want to take that platform.

All that I am saying is that it's obvious when you look at athletes today, blacks dominate every sport except hockey. I don't know why that is, but it's a statistical certainty...prove that wrong in some way...


Well that's easy. In order to play hockey you first must plunk down about 2000 dollars for gear. Once you've done that, fine 10 other people who are capable of doing the same thing and then find a sheet of ice that is suitable to play on. Same thing applies for golf.

What does it take in order for a kid to play basketball or football? A 5 dollar ball and a field or court which are all easily found in any ghetto.

[amyb]

Well that's easy. In order to play hockey you first must plunk down about 2000 dollars for gear. Once you've done that, fine 10 other people who are capable of doing the same thing and then find a sheet of ice that is suitable to play on. Same thing applies for golf.

What does it take in order for a kid to play basketball or football? A 5 dollar ball and a field or court which are all easily found in any ghetto.
beg to differ about the golf. You can go to a public course and rent clubs and play 18 for less than $40.

[Ya_know]

What about weightlifting or wrestling or swimming,etc ?

I don't consider any of those sports... :p

[edball]

beg to differ about the golf. You can go to a public course and rent clubs and play 18 for less than $40.
That would only get you one game in. It would add up if you played enough to develop any skill. Also, $40 is a lot to most kids.

[Ya_know]

beg to differ about the golf. You can go to a public course and rent clubs and play 18 for less than $40.

Yeah, but if you go twice a week that $4160 a year...times 10 years to get proficient...well, you do the math! Don't forget the ugly cloths. But to play b-ball or f-ball…again, cheep!

[edball]

I don't consider any of those sports... :p
Sorry, I forgot they only play LaCrosse and Polo where you come from. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[amyb]

Yeah, but if you go twice a week that $4160 a year...times 10 years to get proficient...well, you do the math! Don't forget the ugly cloths. But to play b-ball or f-ball…again, cheep!
You can wear regular clothes and there are also practice ranges and you can hit a basket of balls for $5! Can't do math right now..bad cold..can't breath much less do calculations.

[RejectionMan]

Blaa blaa blaa

does it realy matter?

Crap like this is what started WWII and got guys like Hitler into power. some group gets high on their horse, everyone else gets pissed of and a dip **** gets elected.

If we disregard all of this stuffas BS everyone is happy, no stereotypes, no raceisim, no fights, no war. maby this is what is wrong with the USA they did not learn these facts in WWII and its shy they persist in pushing there ways on every one else.

Im sure there would be a lot less terrorists if we just left everyone alone.

By the way, now that the media is calling everyone that is anti-bush a terrorist Im prowd to call my self a terroist. As seen on CNN last night when enviromentatilists ("eco-terrorists") burned sum hummers in war ("anti-bush")and enviromental protest. Now i will never get let into the USA and good ridance!

[edball]

Blaa blaa blaa

does it realy matter?

Crap like this is what started WWII and got guys like Hitler into power. some group gets high on their horse, everyone else gets pissed of and a dip **** gets elected.

If we disregard all of this stuffas BS everyone is happy, no stereotypes, no raceisim, no fights, no war. maby this is what is wrong with the USA they did not learn these facts in WWII and its shy they persist in pushing there ways on every one else.

Im sure there would be a lot less terrorists if we just left everyone alone.

By the way, now that the media is calling everyone that is anti-bush a terrorist Im prowd to call my self a terroist. As seen on CNN last night when enviromentatilists ("eco-terrorists") burned sum hummers in war ("anti-bush")and enviromental protest. Now i will never get let into the USA and good ridance!
I think you forgot no bigotry...http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[meatwad]

Blaa blaa blaa

does it realy matter?

Crap like this is what started WWII and got guys like Hitler into power. some group gets high on their horse, everyone else gets pissed of and a dip **** gets elected.

If we disregard all of this stuffas BS everyone is happy, no stereotypes, no raceisim, no fights, no war. maby this is what is wrong with the USA they did not learn these facts in WWII and its shy they persist in pushing there ways on every one else.

Im sure there would be a lot less terrorists if we just left everyone alone.

By the way, now that the media is calling everyone that is anti-bush a terrorist Im prowd to call my self a terroist. As seen on CNN last night when enviromentatilists ("eco-terrorists") burned sum hummers in war ("anti-bush")and enviromental protest. Now i will never get let into the USA and good ridance!

What are you talking about? Did that make sense to anyone?

[amyb]

What are you talking about? Did that make sense to anyone?
No, it doesn't. Glad I'm not the only one

[Archer]

Politics and racism in one thread.........:(

[Ya_know]

By the way, now that the media is calling everyone that is anti-bush a terrorist Im prowd to call my self a terroist. As seen on CNN last night when enviromentatilists ("eco-terrorists") burned sum hummers in war ("anti-bush")and enviromental protest. Now i will never get let into the USA and good ridance!


We don't like your kind...Canadian Smartmouth's who base their point on 12 month old media, and think they have all the facts about the US...

I don't know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make any sense...either that or the media that you watch is fouled up, thus your mind is clouded.

[jitBob]

Maybe if he laid off the Molsons at breakfast it would make more sense.

[Archer]

Im sure there would be a lot less terrorists if we just left everyone alone

No you wouldn't.
Terrorists are the people who disagree with your way of life what you do,where you go,your ethics,your religion or even who you want in office no matter what you do you cant please them.
They take reasonable lawful protest beyond the extreme and into violence,extortion and murder so giving in to terrorism is the same as giving away your way of life and all those you love to live the whim of a dictatorship who could never win by fair lawful means if they tried because of their extreme views which are shared by only a handful of people and not the vast majority of rest of the law abiding human race.

[RejectionMan]

What im tryin to say is you goys are all goin on about his or that and these people are better at this than these guys. eg, african americans casue you can play basketball just about any ware for cheap vs hockey.

Im saying does it matter? (its all blaa blaa blaa people trying ot stir up other people) And if we just ignore/disregard all this stuff wouldn't the world be better for it? Maby im still back on page 2 of this thread but I think this might be part of the answer that Michael Moore was questioning us with in Bowling for columbine, what is wrong with america? Maby a lack of understanding for all these "groups" resulting in foregien policys and domestic "group" actions or thoughts that just spawn more of the same attitudes. Resulting in the problems that the US is faced with today.

eg. if i beat up a kid for his lunch money (read in oil) cause he has lots, wont his buddys get mad at me and try to take it back (said terrorists). Then wont i get mad at them and take their lunch money (stomp on countrys harboring said terrorists). Do this enough and the original kid loses it and shoots up the school? (read in world) or some one else (read in N.Korea) that wants to prevent it from happening to them.

as to my news source: Last Night CNN (yes we get american TV on cable here in Canada!) as to your comments about last year, after reading news rather than watching it I see that this has been going on for some time, but the war protests part = anti-bush = terrorist is a different angle of the same thing.

[jitBob]

What im tryin to say is you goys are all goin on about his or that and these people are better at this than these guys. eg, african americans casue you can play basketball just about any ware for cheap vs hockey.

Im saying does it matter? (its all blaa blaa blaa people trying ot stir up other people) And if we just ignore/disregard all this stuff wouldn't the world be better for it? Maby im still back on page 2 of this thread but I think this might be part of the answer that Michael Moore was questioning us with in Bowling for columbine, what is wrong with america? Maby a lack of understanding for all these "groups" resulting in foregien policys and domestic "group" actions or thoughts that just spawn more of the same attitudes. Resulting in the problems that the US is faced with today.

eg. if i beat up a kid for his lunch money (read in oil) cause he has lots, wont his buddys get mad at me and try to take it back (said terrorists). Then wont i get mad at them and take their lunch money (stomp on countrys harboring said terrorists). Do this enough and the original kid loses it and shoots up the school? (read in world) or some one else (read in N.Korea) that wants to prevent it from happening to them.

as to my news source: Last Night CNN (yes we get american TV on cable here in Canada!) as to your comments about last year, after reading news rather than watching it I see that this has been going on for some time, but the war protests part = anti-bush = terrorist is a different angle of the same thing.


Still not following you.

[RejectionMan]

RE: archer

You have already done that. Armed gaurds at finacial instidutions, check points when entering Washington DC. and now armed personel at the ballot boxes. mean while theives are robing banks while all this other security is going on during the campain.

your way of life has changed, in fact its starting to look like the old USSR where you need your papers to move about the city.

I suppose that you are right in that giving into them now would mean ther victory and that they would never stop. But dosent some one have to take initative to try and bring closure to such a fight, or jsut let it boil on untill you end up like Yugoslavia the fine product of over 600 years of festering, and the triger point of both world wars.

Maby it would have been better to not have pissed in there "pool" (domestic policy) in the firstplace? something to take up with your political leaders

[Ya_know]

Ok, anyone that quotes Moore with a straight face has to have been riding the short bus to school. In case you don't know American slang, the retarded kids rode the short bus.


You want to know what's wrong with America, think about this first: We are the greatest country in the world. Where else can you find the immense diversity within the borders of a single country and still manage to not kill one or the other group, and actually prosper into the best? Look at the middle east, African, Viet Nam and Korea...The Slovakian countries, Germany back in the day...just to name a few, all of these countries have genocide in their recent history (recent as in within the last 60 years, some as current as this week) have you ever heard of such atrocities here in the states??? Never. We are one of the most civilized and freest societies of the entire globe!

So before you go paraphrasing one of the fattest rich slobs who capitalized, or better yet exploited, from our freedoms to make his millions, take a closer look at the world you live in and realize the US IS A BETTER PLACE than the rest of the world!!!

[jitBob]

RE: archer

You have already done that. Armed gaurds at finacial instidutions, check points when entering Washington DC. and now armed personel at the ballot boxes. mean while theives are robing banks while all this other security is going on during the campain.

your way of life has changed, in fact its starting to look like the old USSR where you need your papers to move about the city.

I suppose that you are right in that giving into them now would mean ther victory and that they would never stop. But dosent some one have to take initative to try and bring closure to such a fight, or jsut let it boil on untill you end up like Yugoslavia the fine product of over 600 years of festering, and the triger point of both world wars.

Maby it would have been better to not have pissed in there "pool" (domestic policy) in the firstplace? something to take up with your political leaders
Who pissed in who's pool on 9/11/2001?

[Ya_know]

Who pissed in who's pool on 9/11/2001?

That's an easy one... :devil:

[Cleetus]

And what makes the United States the greatest nation.......the right to bitch about what holds us back from being even better

[Archer]

RE: archer

You have already done that. Armed guards at financial institutions, check points when entering Washington DC. and now armed personnel at the ballot boxes. mean while thieves are robing banks while all this other security is going on during the campaign.

Don't be so naive adding security measures does not dilute domestic security in the slightest it only enforces it.Besides which not all security organizations are under central control i.e. governmental so their distribution is not directly controlled by political policy or dictate unlike some would have us believe.

your way of life has changed, in fact its starting to look like the old USSR where you need your papers to move about the city.

Where are you coming from the cultures where/are so radically different and the political state of one could never be measured against the other.The armed guard you see at the airport is to ensure your freedom not enforce your slavery so don't try confusing the two.


I suppose that you are right in that giving into them now would mean their victory and that they would never stop. But doesn't some one have to take initiative to try and bring closure to such a fight
Thats what politicians are for love or hate them a political solution is usually the only answer where both sides concede some ground for the common good.This is where terrorists differ with them there is no common ground its one way or no way

Maby it would have been better to not have pissed in there "pool" (domestic policy) in the firstplace? something to take up with your political leaders
If you neighbor starts throwing trash on your lawn how long are you going to clear it up before you finally get round to dealing with the root of the problem?

[RejectionMan]

We are the greatest country in the world. .... take a closer look at the world you live in and realize the US IS A BETTER PLACE than the rest of the world!!!

there is the attitude that is making all non americans hate you.

Where else can you find the immense diversity within the borders of a single country and still manage to not kill one or the other group, and actually prosper into the best? Look at the middle east, African, Viet Nam and Korea...The Slovakian countries, Germany back in the day...just to name a few, all of these countries have genocide in their recent history (recent as in within the last 60 years, some as current as this week) have you ever heard of such atrocities here in the states???

all of these contrys sufferd through the same social problems that the US is faccing now and reacted the same way. Persicute other groups, label them and ultimately lets just get rid of them.. It hasent happend yet, but they way things are going the gulag is not to far in off. Your turn to join this select group of ****rys may be coming if domestic attitudes contiue as they are. Suspision breed paranoia paranoid breeds susspision and eventualy everyone is suspect.

Who pissed in who's pool on 9/11/2001?

um.. the US when they trained Osama to be a CIA guy and kill russians to keep them out of afganistan with out getting your hands dirty. good that it avoided the end of the cold war with nucular war, bad in that it killed many afgans and that US support ended after the russians desided it wasent worth it. a little extra aid may have gone along way to limit public support for osamas group after the russians left. besides these people have been fighting each other for hundreds of years over little more than sand, by getting involved all we have done is unite them against us. The brits learned this during the crusades (well maby not Tony Blair..).

[RejectionMan]

Re: Archer

Armed guards I can see, but machingun toting body armored personell. come on dont tell me it was like that before 9/11?

checking your ID when you enter a city? well maby for a drinking and driving crack down, but just to make sure that your a citizen, or are authoriized to use the road system?

Searches when you enter a building? that only happens at the secuity check point at the air port.

things weren't always like this in the US. Things havent changed in Canada, the only reason youl get searched here is if you go to the airport, enter a secure government facility, or do something stupid to make the cops think your packing something.

[jitBob]

...um.. the US when they trained Osama to be a CIA guy and kill russians to keep them out of afganistan with out getting your hands dirty. good that it avoided the end of the cold war with nucular war, bad in that it killed many afgans and that US support ended after the russians desided it wasent worth it. a little extra aid may have gone along way to limit public support for osamas group after the russians left. besides these people have been fighting each other for hundreds of years over little more than sand, by getting involved all we have done is unite them against us. The brits learned this during the crusades (well maby not Tony Blair..).
Wrong, oh meatpuppet! Did you forget the Achilles Lauro and a gentleman by the name of Leon Klinghoffer? American in a wheelchair killed by terrorists, ring a bell? The Olympics of 1972? Well, gee, seems as though this terrorist thing has been going on a little longer than the last 20 years.

[Ya_know]

And what makes the United States the greatest nation.......the right to bitch about what holds us back from being even better

That's more like it...spoken like a true Texan!

[Archer]

there is the attitude that is making all non americans hate you.
Balderdash having pride in ones country has nothing to do with world events and a broad sweeping statement like that is an absurd comment to make with no evidence to back it up.Thats like me saying most none Westerners hate the US/UK because they are either a:\ Jelous of our freedom/prosperity/money or b:\Have been sent home for trying to illegally enter the country.



all of these contrys sufferd through the same social problems that the US is faccing now and reacted the same way. Persicute other groups, label them and ultimately lets just get rid of them.. It hasent happend yet, but they way things are going the gulag is not to far in off.

Again you make up billious fiction and try to mix it in with little factual evidence



um.. the US when they trained Osama to be a CIA guy and kill russians to keep them out of afganistan with out getting your hands dirty.

All goverments have at some time trained and used insurgents of other nations to effect change in other countries so the US is no different to any others i.e. Russia,China and the UK to name but three widely differing cultures.


besides these people have been fighting each other for hundreds of years over little more than sand, by getting involved all we have done is unite them against us. The brits learned this during the crusades (well maby not Tony Blair..).


Many cultures/countries have has battles/grudges that have lasted so long the origional reason for the fight has been lost in time take Ireland as an example.

[Archer]

Re: Archer

Armed guards I can see, but machingun toting body armored personell. come on dont tell me it was like that before 9/11?

I fail to see your argument,armed is armed weather its on show or hidden under a jacket,a pistol or a machine gun.And no it was not the threat level has reached the point where freedom needs more visually intimidating protection

checking your ID when you enter a city? well maby for a drinking
and driving crack down, but just to make sure that your a citizen, or are authoriized to use the road system?
Again you spout spurious "facts" with nothing to back it up.Where,when,what were the circumstances of the road block?
Your evidence is thinner than Moores.

Things havent changed in Canada, the only reason youl get searched here is if you go to the airport, enter a secure government facility, or do something stupid to make the cops think your packing something.
No you Canadians are riding on the back of US security measures and it would only take a similar event to that of the US for things to change in your beloved country too.

[RejectionMan]

Having pride in ones country is fine, but rubbing every ones face in it? eg. using the argument that your country is the greatest as a rebutl on the internet which has no nationality.

"billious fiction" oh so to therorize that the posibilty exists is no longer allowed.. will i now get sent to the gulag?

Yes all governments have dicked around with foreigen policys, and in every case hasent it come back at them? the fact that the us is currently being single out by me is becasue they are the last super power. Of the countrys you listed did their empire/society not collapse/implode? (russian can't afford to do anything, china has perty much gone quite after international out cry over human rights, and the UK all but disappeared (empire with 24 hours of sun light to a commonwealth of co-operative nations best exit a empire has made to date).

Ireland, good example, but haven't events with the IRA quieted done since the brits basicaly pulled out? or is it simply over shadowed by current events?

Leon Klinghoffer = 1985. Palistinian terrorist working to end US support of Irael
1972 Olympics = Arabs (palisines friends) off some Isralies due to religious conflicts, and the "occupation" of palistinian land by Israel

Israel was formed at the end of WWII to give the Jewish people a nation to call their own. Good idea, bad implementation. Just take the land away from a another nation with severly different religous views that happens to consider the same area holy land. Mix in that palistine was under british control (police action/peace keeping) and the the US basicly helped take it from the palisinians by assisting disent activitys that the british police force left. the people that lived there were not consulted, just told to leave. I'd be pissed to.

[Wayward Clam]

Hey techs...

Didn't the last guy who believed one race was better than the rest try to exterminate all you Jews?

Weren't you rescued by about 5 billion non-Jews?

As for "Is it okay to say good things about a race"...

Of course it is! You've heard of "White Power", right?

:rolleyes:


Ok, anyone that quotes Moore with a straight face has to have been riding the short bus to school.

Hmm, let's see, he takes facts and puts a very strong political spin on them, and annoys half of the people he is preaching to... where have I heard this style before? Oh yeah, from YOU! :D

P.S. regarding hockey, poor kids don't play with skates, ice, or even pucks. A hockey stick and a tennis ball (and only one kid has to have the ball) are all you need...

[RejectionMan]

Re: archer

circumstances of road block, dont know all i see is the news complaining about traffic in new yourk due to road blocks over a percived threat that is going to last untill november casue bush said so.

as to terrorists attacking Canada why would they other than to gain a staging point over the US? If they just threatend our government would just give in to them. we dont have the force to back up anything other than a peace keeping mission with UN support (all of our standing troops are currently in deployment in afganistan and other UN actions).

[jitBob]

Leon Klinghoffer = American citizen murdered by terrorists.

1972 Olympics = Murder by terrorists.

That is very cavalier of you to call cold blooded murder "offing"

You sir are a Canadian meatpuppet!

[Ya_know]

...
Yes all governments have dicked around with foreigen policys, and in every case hasent it come back at them?
...
Ireland, good example, but haven't events with the IRA quieted done since the brits basicaly pulled out? or is it simply over shadowed by current events?
...
Israel was formed at the end of WWII to give the Jewish people a nation to call their own. Good idea, bad implementation. Just take the land away from a another nation with severly different religous views that happens to consider the same area holy land. Mix in that palistine was under british control (police action/peace keeping) and the the US basicly helped take it from the palisinians by assisting disent activitys that the british police force left. the people that lived there were not consulted, just told to leave. I'd be pissed to.

So what you are saying is that in order to have harmony in the world every country should mind their own phucking business...ok, how do we trade goods and services? We mind our own phucking business, that's the last time you see a Microsoft product shipped to your country, or we get...well...what ever Canada exports. Then you also say that where ever anyone has an interest, those countries should pull out unconditionally and all will be forgiven and forgotten. It’s impossible at any stage that we as humans are at currently…you propose things like you have a pea for a brain.


This land of harmony, why don't we just call it Fantasyland, and put a big mouse in charge... what you propose is an absolutely fruity notion...

[Cleetus]

Dude, you ave no idea how bad I want to go to Disney World

[Ya_know]

Dude, you ave no idea how bad I want to go to Disney World

There you go with switching to a French accent again. You sure you weren't born French?

[Cleetus]

There you go with switching to a French accent again. You sure you weren't born French?
Die gay boy :flame:

[Archer]

RM If your theorizing don't start presenting it as facts which you have done several times in this post as to having pride in ones country if someone wants to take offense to my pride then its a problem with their ethics not mine so shoot at the right side when you fire a salvo.

The IRA have gone back the the thugs and extortionists that they started out as so no nothing has changed but the lack of media coverage.

Its easy to try and make historical corrections after the fact or muddy the water with things that were unknown at the time had we all the facts all the time there would never be so many arguments around the world.
Sometimes judgment calls have to be made instantly with little evidence available so don't judge the people who make these actions until you've been in a similar situation yourself.

[hudsonsmith]

circumstances of road block, dont know all i see is the news complaining about traffic in new yourk due to road blocks over a percived threat that is going to last untill november casue bush said so.

There is no road block in New York. When the alert went up the other day, they started searching trucks before allowing them over the bridges. They have already lifted this. BTW, all anyone ever does in New York is complain about the traffic. You don't need a road block to screw it up.

[techs]

There you go with switching to a French accent again. You sure you weren't born French?

He can't be French. He actually wants to go to Disneyland.

Boy, I stirred things up didn't I?
Which was the intent.

[meatwad]

Anyone else starting to think that Rejection Man is the older, more articulate brother of Julie?

[Wayward Clam]

Boy, I stirred things up didn't I?
Which was the intent.

I think there were about 3 people left at Windrivers who hadn't figured that out yet.

[Ya_know]

He can't be French. He actually wants to go to Disneyland.

Boy, I stirred things up didn't I?
Which was the intent.

You're always good for a jolt! :thumbs:

[Archer]

Boy, I stirred things up didn't I?
.

And you point was? :rolleyes: :D

[Cleetus]

And you point was? :rolleyes: :D
You can't trust those Jews?

[RejectionMan]

Anyone else starting to think that Rejection Man is the older, more articulate brother of Julie?

????

Ya_Know did i say end trade? No i said end stupid foreigen policy that creates problems. FYI canda used to export Beef, wood, grains and fruit cake to the US.

Im not sure what we export to you any more as it has all been banned, boycoted/tariffed, or deemed a threat to national security (in that order)

Archer: good argument i can live with that (I Love Debate!)

JitBob, that sir is a Ya_Know argument replying with the same statment that I was rebutting. what the hell is a meatpuppet any way?

Ya_know: there is no point arguing with you, i have read you prior posts and its all blackor white for you, always the extrem of what any one says, followed by personal attacks.

I got 2 whole pages out of this debate, im satisfied with the results. when does this thread get the little flaming emblem (hot topic) beside it? or is that what the oragne envelope represents?

[ilovetheusers]

Natural selection talks about how the most successful members of a species are the ones most suited to succeed. And that their "traits" will be passed on. For example a bird with a longer beak may be better able to get bugs out of a tree. Therefore the members of that bird species with longer beaks will survive bad seasons. Eventually all members of that species will have a longer beak.
Is this true for intelligence? Are children of smart parents on average smarter?
Following this if a race of people were put in a situation where being intelligent gave them a reproductive advantage and if intelligence could be at least partially inherited could it be possible for a race to be on average smarter?
Once again I am merely opening this for discussion.



Here's how things work and how things happened.

In Africa, early humans evolved and moved north into Europe then to Asia, across ice to North America and then into South America. The differences in humans is cosmetic as those changes occur and diseminate among the population easily and easily. Humans are are about the same apart from apearance and culture barring individual differenves (smarter, faster, etc.).

[Wayward Clam]

Im not sure what we export to you any more as it has all been banned, boycoted/tariffed, or deemed a threat to national security (in that order)

Ya_know: there is no point arguing with you, i have read you prior posts and its all blackor white for you, always the extrem of what any one says, followed by personal attacks.

We still export water and electricity to them. They only ban the things that we make more money off of than they do.

And I see you're beginning to understand the phenomenon that is Ya_Know. :D

[Archer]

How can you call it a good debate when you give up half way through :p :D
You sound like a Trip post-a-like to me ;)

[meatwad]

Didn't we start NAFTA to eliminate trade tarrifs with Canada and Mexico? I mean, wasn't that the point?

[Wayward Clam]

Didn't we start NAFTA to eliminate trade tarrifs with Canada and Mexico? I mean, wasn't that the point?

Yup.

However, that doesn't seem to stop you from putting trade tariffs on stuff that Canadians want to sell Americans.

[meatwad]

Yup.

However, that doesn't seem to stop you from putting trade tariffs on stuff that Canadians want to sell Americans.

liiiiiiike...

[Wayward Clam]

liiiiiiike...

Softwood Lumber being the most famous:

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/HET/Softwood/

Alberta beef I think is the second most famous, but that one is more controversial. Essentially banned because of "mad cow" fears but the contention up here is that it was in fact an American cow that had been transported up HERE that was infected.

[Wayward Clam]

P.S. We're not even close to being on topic, are we? :D

[meatwad]

P.S. We're not even close to being on topic, are we? :D

What's your favorite kind of beans?

[RejectionMan]

:flame:
NAFTA
:flame:

Im not even going to start on this thread. BUT this is the type of foregien policys i was talking about. make a deal and them screw them over with it!

BSE 1 case from a cow that is of american berth, but born in canada. this was march of last year... since then the US has 2 reported cases and 10 suspect.. and yet canadain beef remains banded and you fools pay the rediculus proces the grocery store wants for it because Canada used to provide 50% of your supply.

So now your own producers are pillaging you becauce they successfuly lobyed your government to ban our product for a potential threat. I still havent figured out the ban on fruit cakes though.... especialy for national sercurity reasons?

Maby they saw that british movie about hte exploding fruit cakes and took it seriously?

[Wayward Clam]

BSE 1 case from a cow that is of american berth, but born in canada.

Dude, you're making me look bad. Please don't argue good causes and say things like this in "support" of them. :D

[RejectionMan]

Oh yeah, we make more mony off the banned, tarrifed products because our dollar is worthless resulting in cheap goods that US producers cannot produce at cost and compete.

They then cry subsidy (thinking that is why our product is cheaper) and lobby the government to ban it becasues subsidys arn't alowed under NAFTA. Tthis argumetn has been defeated 19 times in international court but becasue the US is not a member of the International courts litigative action can realy be taken un less Canada challenges an international agreement under US federal law (which wont work)

Result US government makes big $$$ tarrifign the crap out of stuff and so it costs the same as US products and the US consumer foots the bill.

see not only is your governemnt screwing other countrys but its own citizens! I done know what pisses me off more and im not even an american!

[gazzak]

Maby they saw that british movie about the exploding fruit cakes and took it seriously?

but it is serious :cool:

[RejectionMan]

wayward clan: we might as well get the facts straight or they will wine and complan about our fiction and not belive anything we say. What dose it matter anyway? Its not like they are willing to change, so just accept it and move on.

[Cleetus]

Could you imagine a Jewish Canadian?

[Major Kong]

I tell ya I leave for the day and come back to this! Man is this thread that is in severe need of an enema! :(