Democrats: It's Gonna Be OK...

[craigmodius]

OK everybody breathe for a second....

How very sad for the Bush administration that it just barely managed to squeak it's way back into office by surfing the tide of gay hatred and fear of terrorists.

How pathetic that Dubya went from record approval ratings after 9/11 and now half of americans hate him and a good percentage of those that put him in office only did so because they think he is stronger on terrorism, and he barely squeaked by.

How pathetic that we went from total sympathy from the rest of the world after 9/11 to just about every other nation hating us in a short 4 years.


----

But you know what? It's OK because Bush can get jack diddly squat accomplished in the next four years. He wil be the text book definition of a lame duck president. He's going to be the leader of the most powerfull nation in the free world with an army he can't use due to his own fault.

The CIA could tell us tomorrow that "the sky is blue and Bin Laden is sitting in a cave in Pakistan at these exact coordinates right now". Then there will be a full senate hearing on whether the sky is indeed blue or not.

Due to his poor handling of the economy for his first term he now has no money to even try to do anything domestically in his last 4 lame duck years.

It's gonna be another 4 years of hilarity, tune in to the Daily Show on Comedy Central and laugh it off, and the pendulum will swing back hard soon. :thumbs:

[WebHead]

...tune in to the Daily Show on Comedy Central and laugh it off, and the pendulum will swing back hard soon. :thumbs:

This is the one positive thing that has come out of all this. We'll get a decent amount entertainment value out of his blunders.

Also, it's official: Dubyaspeak.com is on for four more years. Hooray! :D

[KINGofBLEH]

OK everybody breathe for a second....

How very sad for the Bush administration that it just barely managed to squeak it's way back into office by surfing the tide of gay hatred and fear of terrorists.

How pathetic that Dubya went from record approval ratings after 9/11 and now half of americans hate him and a good percentage of those that put him in office only did so because they think he is stronger on terrorism, and he barely squeaked by.

How pathetic that we went from total sympathy from the rest of the world after 9/11 to just about every other nation hating us in a short 4 years.


----

But you know what? It's OK because Bush can get jack diddly squat accomplished in the next four years. He wil be the text book definition of a lame duck president. He's going to be the leader of the most powerfull nation in the free world with an army he can't use due to his own fault.

The CIA could tell us tomorrow that "the sky is blue and Bin Laden is sitting in a cave in Pakistan at these exact coordinates right now". Then there will be a full senate hearing on whether the sky is indeed blue or not.

Due to his poor handling of the economy for his first term he now has no money to even try to do anything domestically in his last 4 lame duck years.

It's gonna be another 4 years of hilarity, tune in to the Daily Show on Comedy Central and laugh it off, and the pendulum will swing back hard soon. :thumbs:

Government 101:

President + Congress from same party does not equal a lame duck.

[craigmodius]

that's it let's hear the good things to look out for...

If you hit the lottery in the next 4 years and become super-rich. Bush is your man, tax breaks all the way baby, and you didn't even have to vote for him.

[craigmodius]

Government 101:

President + Congress from same party does not equal a lame duck.

true, but lame in respect to him being able to start more wars. imho

maybe not quite text book :)

[craigmodius]

Webby if you start that multi-national death corporation you've always wanted then you will be able to enjoy the remaining Bush years. Tax breaks all the way baby, all so you can send jobs overseas. :thumbs:

[craigmodius]

oooh ooooh I got another one.

****Pretzels Willl Be Outlawed****

good news if you are in the potato chip business :)

[Larommi]

that's it let's hear the good things to look out for...

If you hit the lottery in the next 4 years and become super-rich. Bush is your man, tax breaks all the way baby, and you didn't even have to vote for him.

I am going to hit the lottery tonight...I am in luck!!

Hey, so is Kerry. His taxes wont go up! Not like after all the tax loopholes and everthing else he pays his fair share anyhow.

[craigmodius]

I am going to hit the lottery tonight...I am in luck!!

Hey, so is Kerry. His taxes wont go up! Not like after all the tax loopholes and everthing else he pays his fair share anyhow.

good luck with the lottery, remember the little people when you're a fat cat.

(and I'm not talking about leprechauns)

---

got another one.

If YOU are in the wedding cake topper business you can finaly streamline your inventory.

no more need for all those bride-bride or groom-groom toppers.

[craigmodius]

YES! you can throw out all your BLUE markers now. Just need red ones for all those states.

this is gonna be great. Who needed those stoopid blue markers anyway. :)

[Major Kong]

Well all of us arm chair pundits have differing views...Here's one more:

To the DNC...get your freaking act together. Hellsbells even your own advisors and guru's are saying it. They now admit it all started in 2002 with the last congressional elections and the Dems ignored it. You need to step away from the far left liberal stance and return to a moderate posture. You need to reach out and embrace those that you have cast aside. DNC look what you've done since 1996. You've lost large swaths of the Mid-Atlantic, South and the Heartland. You have switched your intellectual base to the Northeast and the West Coast. While you have embraced Hollywood and the glitz and recongnition of star power you have ignored the very people who made the Democratic Party in the 1st place. Go back to your roots. No longer look down your nose at the soccer mom, the plumber, the storekeeper and the roofer. Tell Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, Rosie O'Donnell and any other elite thanks we appreciate it, but we need to talk these folks over here.

Do that and you recapture your power by 2008 and possibly 2006. If not be comfortable in many decades of whining and bitching (see the GOP from 1932-1952). You have a chance don't blow it. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[WebHead]

Webby if you start that multi-national death corporation you've always wanted then you will be able to enjoy the remaining Bush years. Tax breaks all the way baby, all so you can send jobs overseas. :thumbs:

Well I was thinking of starting something like that up. I mean, these days, it's either that or go work for Halliburton and take your chances I guess. :)

[WebHead]

Well all of us arm chair pundits have differing views...Here's one more:

To the DNC...get your freaking act together. Hellsbells even your own advisors and guru's are saying it. They now admit it all started in 2002 with the last congressional elections and the Dems ignored it. You need to step away from the far left liberal stance and return to a moderate posture. You need to reach out and embrace those that you have cast aside. DNC look what you've done since 1996. You've lost large swaths of the Mid-Atlantic, South and the Heartland. You have switched your intellectual base to the Northeast and the West Coast. While you have embraced Hollywood and the glitz and recongnition of star power you have ignored the very people who made the Democratic Party in the 1st place. Go back to your roots. No longer look down your nose at the soccer mom, the plumber, the storekeeper and the roofer. Tell Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, Rosie O'Donnell and any other elite thanks we appreciate it, but we need to talk these folks over here.

Do that and you recapture your power by 2008 and possibly 2006. If not be comfortable in many decades of whining and bitching (see the GOP from 1932-1952). You have a chance don't blow it. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Major,.. please. It's over. Four more years of Dubya. You can turn off CNN and FoxNews now. ;)

[Major Kong]

Major,.. please. It's over. Four more years of Dubya. You can turn off CNN and FoxNews now. ;)
Sorry Wrbby but I've been stuck at an old airport all day getting back up here to work with no access at all to any media (it's actually been a relief). I haven't seen anything since last night. Where I'm coming from is from my wife and my family. My in-laws family are staunch Democrats, but this election they voted for Bush because in the words of my FIL "I couldn't find anything I liked about Kerry or what the Democrats were offering". You could have knocked us down with a feather. Then my MIL told us the same thing (my in-laws are divorced). You can bitch, bemoan, act like chicken little, vent, whine and complain all you want wrbby but the fact reamins the Democrats lost this election more than the GOP won it and if they don't change their tactics they are screwed. Wrbby man your to good of a guy, sour grapes don't suit ya. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[silencio]

Well all of us arm chair pundits have differing views...Here's one more:

To the DNC...get your freaking act together. Hellsbells even your own advisors and guru's are saying it. They now admit it all started in 2002 with the last congressional elections and the Dems ignored it. You need to step away from the far left liberal stance and return to a moderate posture. You need to reach out and embrace those that you have cast aside. DNC look what you've done since 1996. You've lost large swaths of the Mid-Atlantic, South and the Heartland. You have switched your intellectual base to the Northeast and the West Coast. While you have embraced Hollywood and the glitz and recongnition of star power you have ignored the very people who made the Democratic Party in the 1st place. Go back to your roots. No longer look down your nose at the soccer mom, the plumber, the storekeeper and the roofer. Tell Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, Rosie O'Donnell and any other elite thanks we appreciate it, but we need to talk these folks over here.

Do that and you recapture your power by 2008 and possibly 2006. If not be comfortable in many decades of whining and bitching (see the GOP from 1932-1952). You have a chance don't blow it. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
I really enjoyed Zel Miller's speech. An awful lot of hardcore old school democrats see things the same way. Look at Loooziana!

[silencio]

true, but lame in respect to him being able to start more wars. imho

maybe not quite text book :)
Ironic. I would have pegged you as a text book masta.

[craigmodius]

Ironic. I would have pegged you as a text book masta.

masta?

and that would mean?

[WebHead]

Sorry Wrbby but I've been stuck at an old airport all day getting back up here to work with no access at all to any media (it's actually been a relief). I haven't seen anything since last night. Where I'm coming from is from my wife and my family. My in-laws family are staunch Democrats, but this election they voted for Bush because in the words of my FIL "I couldn't find anything I liked about Kerry or what the Democrats were offering". You could have knocked us down with a feather. Then my MIL told us the same thing (my in-laws are divorced). You can bitch, bemoan, act like chicken little, vent, whine and complain all you want wrbby but the fact reamins the Democrats lost this election more than the GOP won it and if they don't change their tactics they are screwed. Wrbby man your to good of a guy, sour grapes don't suit ya. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

LOL. Well what I meant by that is many of the words and phrases you were writing seemed to practically be copied/pasted from CNN talking heads. I haven't been watching the TV, but I've had it on all day (just as kinda background ambient noise) and listening, and they've been saying the same exact thing all day over and over again.

But yeah,.. it's not sour grapes Major. I accept that Bush won this election. He won it by 3.5 million votes soundly. And that's a loud and clear message. Too loud to ignore. And when I look at the candidate and I look at the people who voted for him (based on the final exit poll numbers), I can start to see a greater picture of what is happening in this country. Why it's happening I have no clue. But it is and I don't think it's going away anytime soon. And it bothers me because I can see America taking a new shape that I don't think the founding fathers ever wanted. They knew this was/is a fragile country. If you look closely, this country has a large sticker on it that says "handle with care". But now there are cracks forming and I am anticipating that better days are now something we do not have the luxury of looking forward to. Should I sit around worrying about this all day? No. Is it going to help for me to complain about it? No. But I have a first amendment right to say what I want, and until that gets shut down,.. I will excersize that right. :thumbs:

[craigmodius]

OK we need more positive things about the next 4 years.

---

If YOU are a bounty hunter ala Boba Fette, there is still a reward out for Osama Bin Laden.

Now is the time to cash in. I think there's a 12 million reward last time I heard.

All you gotta do is get him, and boom, you're an instant millionaire overnight. Next all you gotta do is start a multi-national death corporation with that money and you've got the hat-trick.

Bush is now your man.

[WebHead]

OK we need more positive things about the next 4 years.

---

If YOU are a bounty hunter ala Boba Fette, there is still a reward out for Osama Bin Laden.

Now is the time to cash in. I think there's a 12 million reward last time I heard.

All you gotta do is get him, and boom, you're an instant millionaire overnight. Next all you gotta do is start a multi-national death corporation with that money and you've got the hat-trick.

Bush is now your man.

Ok,.. fair enough. I have an idea now for a new post...

[craigmodius]

they'll probably make a new set of those death cards with all the most wanted terrorists/iraqi leaders on them.

So if you've got the origional set it goes up in value...

And a new set means you can play 2 games of solitaire at the same time.

Or you and your female wife (as required by the constitution) can play card games together or solitaire side by side in your bunker/fallout shelter. :)

(was that one a stretch? )

[Linthade]

LOL. Well what I meant by that is many of the words and phrases you were writing seemed to practically be copied/pasted from CNN talking heads.

Wow. Thats exactly what I thought reading all this "Bush is going to ruin the world" drivel, straight out of the Democratic talking points.

*lin*

[craigmodius]

4 words...

Grand Theft Auto: Bagdad!

oh hells yeah! :thumbs2:

[craigmodius]

Wow. Thats exactly what I thought reading all this "Bush is going to ruin the world" drivel, straight out of the Democratic talking points.

*lin*

if you think I've been posting "Bush is going to ruin the world" drivel (at least in this thread). I apologize this is really not meant to be taken seriously.

just having some fun and not trying to make it at anyone else's expense.

[TripleRLtd]

OK everybody breathe for a second....

:thumbs:OK craig, breathe for a couple minutes. http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
You're fired up aren't you? Well, it's all right to take this all personal, but if you believe in democracy and the power of the vote, then you should accept the fact that the heartland of America did indeed speak out. And, that IS America, too. In fact, so important that the rest of the world right now, as well as their fellow Americans are trying to figure them out.
So, who would have thought that VALUES would have been the most important point of this election.
With teh clams approval http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/wink.gif, I will quote something important that the Major has already said:
You've lost large swaths of the Mid-Atlantic, South and the Heartland. You have switched your intellectual base to the Northeast and the West Coast. While you have embraced Hollywood and the glitz and recongnition of star power you have ignored the very people who made the Democratic Party in the 1st place. Because that says it all.

[TripleRLtd]

if you think I've been posting "Bush is going to ruin the world" drivel (at least in this thread). I apologize this is really not meant to be taken seriously.

just having some fun and not trying to make it at anyone else's expense.DAMN! Now you tell me that!!http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/tongue.gifhttp://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[craigmodius]

DAMN! Now you tell me that!!http://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/tongue.gifhttp://forums.windrivers.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Oh yeah, sorry for the confusion, I'm just having fun, making jokes :)

And trying to keep things funny and positive :thumbs:

[craigmodius]

Oh Yeah, almost forgot.

Confus-Ed's tin foil hat sales will go up! Dare I say thru the roof.

Invest in the confus-ed brand tinfoil hat corporation now.

buy low sell high.

plug plug plug

[Wayward Clam]

Mayor Kong

I thought it was President he was going for?

Ah well, good to see he has at least some political experience! :thumbs:

[Larommi]

Democrats

Dont let your party nominate Kennedy wannabe's. Get some fresh blood from somewhere else in the country. Get someone that relates to the common voter, one that the common voter can relate too.

Find a canidate that does more than tell us what they think we want to hear. Quit assuming that middle America is dumb. That is not why they voted Bush back, they voted Bush back because they saw through Kerry.

Get a real canidate and watch things change.

Dont get me wrong, this is not a slam. Kerry is a good guy, but not for the presidency. He got my attention, but did not hold it because he did not back what he said.

Quit whining about what happened legit for once, and look to changing it. But start in your own party.

[WebHead]

if you think I've been posting "Bush is going to ruin the world" drivel (at least in this thread). I apologize this is really not meant to be taken seriously.

just having some fun and not trying to make it at anyone else's expense.

I do hope you'll keep posting this stuff,.. I need the laughs. I am literally lmao over here!! Funny stuff. :D

[WebHead]

Democrats

Dont let your party nominate Kennedy wannabe's. Get some fresh blood from somewhere else in the country. Get someone that relates to the common voter, one that the common voter can relate too.

Find a canidate that does more than tell us what they think we want to hear. Quit assuming that middle America is dumb. That is not why they voted Bush back, they voted Bush back because they saw through Kerry.

Get a real canidate and watch things change.

Dont get me wrong, this is not a slam. Kerry is a good guy, but not for the presidency. He got my attention, but did not hold it because he did not back what he said.

Quit whining about what happened legit for once, and look to changing it. But start in your own party.

Who is this "common voter" you speak of?

[TripleRLtd]

Who is this "common voter" you speak of?The ones the Democrats keep forgetting about?

[WebHead]

The ones the Democrats keep forgetting about?

Ok,.. which ones are those?

[craigmodius]

I do hope you'll keep posting this stuff,.. I need the laughs. I am literally lmao over here!! Funny stuff. :D

well, I gotta go to sleep now.

dammit, now I gotta get rid of my BLUE comforter. Gotta get a RED one.

---

oops gotta think positive, well at least I can buy all the assault weapons that my bunker on the compound outside of town can hold.

gotta stock up on kool-aid and arsenic though :thumbs:

[WebHead]

well, I gotta go to sleep now.

dammit, now I gotta get rid of my BLUE comforter. Gotta get a RED one.

---

oops gotta think positive, well at least I can by all the assault weapons that my bunker on the compound outside of town can hold.

gotta stock up on kool-aid and arsenic though :thumbs:

Ha! I just painted my entire apartment red and installed red carpeting today. I'm throwing out anything I have thats blue tomorrow. I mean, if you can't beat em, join em right?

[craigmodius]

that's the spirit

invest in red paint now!

buy low sell high :)

[Larommi]

Who is this "common voter" you speak of?

Everyone. The people that you see on the streets. The working class guy. The lower class guy. The majority of the voters, not just the rich ones with political pull.

[WebHead]

Everyone. The people that you see on the streets. The working class guy. The lower class guy. The majority of the voters, not just the rich ones with political pull.

He did talk to these people though. And 50 million of them voted for him. My point is, I don't think it's a matter of a candidate reaching out to the "common voter" because I don't think there is such a thing as a "common voter". I think as a candidate, you do your best to tell people what you stand for and let them decide if that's what they can relate to. Then they will decide if they want you as their leader. Thats exactly what they did in this election. More people related to Bush this time. Sad but true.

[Larommi]

you do your best to tell people what you stand for and let them decide if that's what they can relate to.

So refering to your website during a debate is a good way to do this?

[imaeditedbysowulo]

Ha! I just painted my entire apartment red and installed red carpeting today. I'm throwing out anything I have thats blue tomorrow. I mean, if you can't beat em, join em right?


Yunno, that's really funny cuz I'm in the process of putting RED carpet in my bedroom. I'm not even joking, that's what makes is so funny. I'm almost done with the primer coats, but haven't decided or purchased the actual color paint yet. The carpet is kind of a maroonish shade of red, I wonder how the walls would look bright red? Would the value of my house go up any?

[WebHead]

So refering to your website during a debate is a good way to do this?

So are you saying that most common voters don't know what the internet is, let-alone use it?

But I do know what you mean. I posted John Kerry's policies here at WD and most people just skipped past that topic. They talked all day about hating Kerry, but when it came down to learning more about him, they'd rather go read the bias news articles from Fox News rather than read his actual policies for themselves.

[Larommi]

So are you saying that most common voters don't know what the internet is, let-alone use it?

But I do know what you mean. I posted John Kerry's policies here at WD and most people just skipped past that topic. They talked all day about hating Kerry, but when it came down to learning more about him, they'd rather go read the bias news articles from Fox News rather than read his actual policies for themselves.

No, but when you are in a debate and you are asked a question, you do not tell the person to go look it up online. You speak to them.

Bush looked like an idiot during the debates. Kerry looked like he was not sure he knew the answer he thought we wanted to hear. If you want to connect with someone, dont refer them somewhere else.

[Larommi]

So are you saying that most common voters don't know what the internet is, let-alone use it?

But I do know what you mean. I posted John Kerry's policies here at WD and most people just skipped past that topic. They talked all day about hating Kerry, but when it came down to learning more about him, they'd rather go read the bias news articles from Fox News rather than read his actual policies for themselves.

Listen, you posted so much hate, so many slanted reports, and so much fluff...when you posted something serious people were already turned off by your constant Bush slander attacks and were no longer interested. You were your own worse enemy when it came to trying to get people to listen to you, or read what you wanted them too.

[WebHead]

Listen, you posted so much hate, so many slanted reports, and so much fluff...when you posted something serious people were already turned off by your constant Bush slander attacks and were no longer interested. You were your own worse enemy when it came to trying to get people to listen to you, or read what you wanted them too.

You read all my stuff. And I know everyone else does too because I get many a reply on what I say. When I posted John Kerrys policies I merely copied and pasted them and titled it "John Kerrys policies". Now how can you go wrong with that? So now we are picking and choosing which of WebHeads posts to read? We'll take the short ones that we can easily whip up a rationalized argument against just for the sake of arguing, rather than reading the lengthy ones where we actually have to think and do some work to reply? The ones that matter? I mean how many people here spew hate about Kerry but don't have a clue what he's all about? Yup,... many people here, and a majority of people in the country that's who.

I believe strongly that many people these days live busy, fast paces life and don't want to take time to understand the truth. People read their CNN, and Fox News, skim through their text books at school, watch Discover and History channel, listen to all the talking heads on every cable channel and buy into all that crap and all of a sudden everyone is an expert on everything. People these days are stubborn, nobody wants to be wrong and thus you end up with November 2nd. A faith and value based, religiously influenced, conservative president who wants to conquer the world who doesn't see the value of quality of life. And most people follow his lead. It's quite sad.

Then you have John Kerry who tells people to visit his website (something 99% of us already do anyway) and this is what you have the problem with? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Larommi]

You read all my stuff. And I know everyone else does too because I get many a reply on what I say. When I posted John Kerrys policies I merely copied and pasted them and titled it "John Kerrys policies". Now how can you go wrong with that? So now we are picking and choosing which of WebHeads posts to read? We'll take the short ones that we can easily whip up a rationalized argument against just for the sake of arguing, rather than reading the lengthy ones where we actually have to think and do some work to reply? The ones that matter? I mean how many people here spew hate about Kerry but don't have a clue what he's all about? Yup,... many people here, and a majority of people in the country that's who.

I believe strongly that many people these days live busy, fast paces life and don't want to take time to understand the truth. People read their CNN, and Fox News, skim through their text books at school, watch Discover and History channel, listen to all the talking heads on every cable channel and buy into all that crap and all of a sudden everyone is an expert on everything. People these days are stubborn, nobody wants to be wrong and thus you end up with November 2nd. A faith and value based, religiously influenced, conservative president who wants to conquer the world who doesn't see the value of quality of life. And most people follow his lead. It's quite sad.

Then you have John Kerry who tells people to visit his website (something 99% of us already do anyway) and this is what you have the problem with? It just doesn't make sense to me.

no? How is that getting down to a more personal level?
Kerry had to sell himself. Let me ask you, if you are buying a house, and dealing with a real estate agent, would you like to have someone there to show you around, or you gonna just go to a website and buy it?

[Larommi]

Hey wait, 99% of who reads Kerry's website?

And I dont read everything you write, you forget I had you on ignore for quite some time for exactly the reasons I outlined.

[WebHead]

no? How is that getting down to a more personal level?
Kerry had to sell himself. Let me ask you, if you are buying a house, and dealing with a real estate agent, would you like to have someone there to show you around, or you gonna just go to a website and buy it?

Ah,... you're right. Point taken. Bottom line: Bush had a better sales pitch than Kerry and/or Kerry didn't have a good sales pitch and/or Kerry had a lousy sales pitch. Hmmm,.. interesting thought. Never heard it put that way before.

Ok,.. well you got me there. And being a sales rep formerly, I should know this. :p

[WebHead]

Hey wait, 99% of who reads Kerry's website?

And I dont read everything you write, you forget I had you on ignore for quite some time for exactly the reasons I outlined.

No I mean,.. 99% of people look at websites (not specifically Kerrry's). And yes 99% is a made up number, but it's just to make a point.

[Larommi]

No I mean,.. 99% of people look at websites (not specifically Kerrry's). And yes 99% is a made up number, but it's just to make a point.
k

[WebHead]

k

Hey,.. btw Lar,.. you really hit the nail on the head with that thought about who had the better sales pitch. That is good creative thinking, I've never heard it worded that way by anyone and it's really making me realize how Bush has managed to win 2 terms of the presidents office. In fact,.. it's almost enough to give me a sense of closure on this whole thing. Yeah,.. this is good. Thanks for the insight.

[Jediab]

Oh Yeah, almost forgot.

Confus-Ed's tin foil hat sales will go up! Dare I say thru the roof.

Invest in the confus-ed brand tinfoil hat corporation now.

buy low sell high.

plug plug plug


I heard this stock rose 25 points in one day alone!

[Linthade]

Then you have John Kerry who tells people to visit his website (something 99% of us already do anyway) and this is what you have the problem with? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I have to defend Webby here. Its not such a bad thing to refer people to your website for more details. Dick Cheney did something similar in the VP debate to refer to Factcheck.org.

With limited time to speak, referring to a written source for more information at the end of your time is a good thing.

*lin*

[ilovetheusers]

OK everybody breathe for a second....

How very sad for the Bush administration that it just barely managed to squeak it's way back into office by surfing the tide of gay hatred and fear of terrorists.

How pathetic that Dubya went from record approval ratings after 9/11 and now half of americans hate him and a good percentage of those that put him in office only did so because they think he is stronger on terrorism, and he barely squeaked by.

How pathetic that we went from total sympathy from the rest of the world after 9/11 to just about every other nation hating us in a short 4 years.


----

But you know what? It's OK because Bush can get jack diddly squat accomplished in the next four years. He wil be the text book definition of a lame duck president. He's going to be the leader of the most powerfull nation in the free world with an army he can't use due to his own fault.

The CIA could tell us tomorrow that "the sky is blue and Bin Laden is sitting in a cave in Pakistan at these exact coordinates right now". Then there will be a full senate hearing on whether the sky is indeed blue or not.

Due to his poor handling of the economy for his first term he now has no money to even try to do anything domestically in his last 4 lame duck years.

It's gonna be another 4 years of hilarity, tune in to the Daily Show on Comedy Central and laugh it off, and the pendulum will swing back hard soon. :thumbs:



The people I spoke to were not out specificaly for those reasons. They were out to defeat Kerry. The Democrats lost this on their own by spouting BS on a daily basis and underestimating the public's ability to seek the truth in many situations.

Though I agree that a large majority of people are very homophobic I really don't feel that was what played the biggest role here. The people I spoke to in line were there to defeat Kerry because they knew he would raise taxes and were afraid to have him as commander in chief.

[Major Kong]

Gotta to agree with ILTU. The folks I know who voted for Bush (I actually only know 2 Kerry voters up here) voted for him for the reasons that ILTU stated + some just didn't feel a connection or I guess a warm fuzzy with Kerry.

[ilovetheusers]

Hey,.. btw Lar,.. you really hit the nail on the head with that thought about who had the better sales pitch. That is good creative thinking, I've never heard it worded that way by anyone and it's really making me realize how Bush has managed to win 2 terms of the presidents office. In fact,.. it's almost enough to give me a sense of closure on this whole thing. Yeah,.. this is good. Thanks for the insight.


No, the nail is kerry stating that he would show you how he could do things without raising taxes then diverting to a different subject and then stating, go to my website and then stating "Thants how we've show that we can do this".

If you go to his web site you can see what he's for but not how he wants to do anything!

FYI, the people are NOT against having heath care for all, they just don't want to pay half of their salary to get it.
The people are not all terrified of terrorists, they just don't want Kerry to be the guy who protects us.
Etc.


Webbie, you have no one to blame for this loss but people like yourself that kept pounding away with lie after lie after lie that people could simply turn on a radio to hear disproved. You and the others in the Democrat party severely underestimate the will and brainpower of a lot of folks. They are simply rejecting ANYTHING you say, even if it's true because of the inundation of lies being told by Democrats. There is your answer.

I see this race as an affirmation that there are enough of us paying attention to facts and checking up on things and rejecting those who spout BS to get elected. The 3.5 million person margin says that George Soros can't buy an election and the American PEOPLE run this country.

[Cleetus]

Most people are already paying half of their salary to tax and health care, esp those with a family. The health care also rises at a much sharper percentage then either tax or the pay.

[imaeditedbysowulo]

My company's healthcare just got a lot worse in the last couple months. One of my coworker's is on medication for Crohn's disease, he just found out that he now has to pay 700 dollars every three months when it used to be 30 dollars per refill. That's a lot of money when you only take home 1000 dollars every two weeks and you are already just barely getting by.

He's probably just a dumb lazy person that doesn't want to work and live off the system tho. Screw him.

[ilovetheusers]

Most people are already paying half of their salary to tax and health care, esp those with a family. The health care also rises at a much sharper percentage then either tax or the pay.

No they are not.


GF:
$25,000 / year
$400/ month for her and child for $4800
ME:
$38,000 / year
$100 / month for me for $1200

Total is $63,000 and $6000 so that's less than 10% $63,000 - ($63,000 x 25% income tax) = 47,2500 - 6000 = $41,250 to pay for food and rent and car, etc.

If the government gets it then you pay about 45% in income taxes like canada does.
$63,000 - ($63,000 x 45% income tax) = 34,650

See, in the end, I loose $$$$$ so much so that I can't feed the girls or keep my car or have a roof. And don't tell me that the tax rate won't be that high because it would be because we will not let the quiality slip of the finest health care system in the world.

[Linthade]

I see this race as an affirmation that there are enough of us paying attention to facts and checking up on things and rejecting those who spout BS to get elected. The 3.5 million person margin says that George Soros can't buy an election and the American PEOPLE run this country.

Very well said.

It is notable how the common perception of the Republican party is 'big money' but the Democratic 527's had massive amounts of money this time and really accomplished next to nothing with it.

It is also interesting to hear all the posts complaining about the election being won based on values & faith.

So...the election was won based on the very things that our Founding Fathers used.

Imagine that.

*lin*

[ilovetheusers]

My company's healthcare just got a lot worse in the last couple months. One of my coworker's is on medication for Crohn's disease, he just found out that he now has to pay 700 dollars every three months when it used to be 30 dollars per refill. That's a lot of money when you only take home 1000 dollars every two weeks and you are already just barely getting by.

He's probably just a dumb lazy person that doesn't want to work and live off the system tho. Screw him.

That's $233.33 a month for meds which is just too high. Has he looked for drugs that are covered under you plan? I have a similar issue with something that my doctor wants me on but it's $90. a month after perscription plan and it turns out that the insurance Co. would pay for an alternative.

[imaeditedbysowulo]

That's $233.33 a month for meds which is just too high. Has he looked for drugs that are covered under you plan? I have a similar issue with something that my doctor wants me on but it's $90. a month after perscription plan and it turns out that the insurance Co. would pay for an alternative.


It's definitely too much and it's a prescription that he needs to live comfortably without constant pain. He's not the type to only take 'brand name' stuff, he's the type that would take anything he could afford as long as it works. He just found out earlier this week, so far I haven't heard of him finding an alternative and he wsa still pretty fired up this morning, so my guess is nothing good has happened yet.

All signs are that our small company is about to get bought out by a much larger company, so maybe they'll have a better health care program than what we currently have. I'm just lucky to not have any health issues that require me to take medication 24/7. Must really suck to have that hanging over your head and never know when you will be required to pay more without any notice.

[Cleetus]

No they are not.


GF:
$25,000 / year
$400/ month for her and child for $4800
ME:
$38,000 / year
$100 / month for me for $1200

Total is $63,000 and $6000 so that's less than 10% $63,000 - ($63,000 x 25% income tax) = 47,2500 - 6000 = $41,250 to pay for food and rent and car, etc.

If the government gets it then you pay about 45% in income taxes like canada does.
$63,000 - ($63,000 x 45% income tax) = 34,650

See, in the end, I loose $$$$$ so much so that I can't feed the girls or keep my car or have a roof. And don't tell me that the tax rate won't be that high because it would be because we will not let the quiality slip of the finest health care system in the world.
You have actual hard proof of these prices and rates and percentages?

How about prescription drug prices or deductables or fees that the insurance company will decide not to pay? How about the self employed who will pay more then you and have higher deductables and crappier service?

[Stalemate]

No they are not.


GF:
$25,000 / year
$400/ month for her and child for $4800
ME:
$38,000 / year
$100 / month for me for $1200

Total is $63,000 and $6000 so that's less than 10% $63,000 - ($63,000 x 25% income tax) = 47,2500 - 6000 = $41,250 to pay for food and rent and car, etc.

If the government gets it then you pay about 45% in income taxes like canada does.
$63,000 - ($63,000 x 45% income tax) = 34,650

See, in the end, I loose $$$$$ so much so that I can't feed the girls or keep my car or have a roof. And don't tell me that the tax rate won't be that high because it would be because we will not let the quiality slip of the finest health care system in the world.

Completely, and sadly, agree with this, as I'm living it.

I think the 45% figure may be bit low though.

This year, I recall seeing that (again) Quebec workers were going to spend from January to July(?) for the government (federal and provincial), then until December for themselves.


Ask me if the medical system (service, wait times, emergency room waiting period, etc.) has improved.

Go on.

Ask.

[imaeditedbysowulo]

Completely, and sadly, agree with this, as I'm living it.

I think the 45% figure may be bit low though.

This year, I recall seeing that (again) Quebec workers were going to spend from January to July(?) for the government (federal and provincial), then until December for themselves.


Ask me if the medical system (service, wait times, emergency room waiting period, etc.) has improved.

Go on.

Ask.

Has it improved?

[ilovetheusers]

It's definitely too much and it's a prescription that he needs to live comfortably without constant pain. He's not the type to only take 'brand name' stuff, he's the type that would take anything he could afford as long as it works. He just found out earlier this week, so far I haven't heard of him finding an alternative and he wsa still pretty fired up this morning, so my guess is nothing good has happened yet.

All signs are that our small company is about to get bought out by a much larger company, so maybe they'll have a better health care program than what we currently have. I'm just lucky to not have any health issues that require me to take medication 24/7. Must really suck to have that hanging over your head and never know when you will be required to pay more without any notice.


Good luck to him. My buds with chrons usually took percocett and opium for the pain which cost very little.

[Linthade]

All signs are that our small company is about to get bought out by a much larger company, so maybe they'll have a better health care program than what we currently have.

This is one of the few things either candidate delineated during the debates. Bush wants to make it possible for groups of small businesses to be able to band together to purchase health insurance at lower costs like the large businesses do.

This doesn't solve the problem, but its something.

*lin*

[ilovetheusers]

You have actual hard proof of these prices and rates and percentages?

How about prescription drug prices or deductables or fees that the insurance company will decide not to pay? How about the self employed who will pay more then you and have higher deductables and crappier service?

Yes, see Adepts post, he actually lives there.

OK, lets add in the GF's meds of $20 a month. Also, doctors visits, probably 20 a year (guess) with copay of say $15.

12x$20 = $240
20x$15 = $300

I'm still $6000 short each year on your plan.

And yes, the self employed often do take the hit for higher rates, a heck of a lot more. But the self employed often times make a lot more money than others and can foot the bill a little better than I could.

[ilovetheusers]

Completely, and sadly, agree with this, as I'm living it.

I think the 45% figure may be bit low though.

This year, I recall seeing that (again) Quebec workers were going to spend from January to July(?) for the government (federal and provincial), then until December for themselves.


Ask me if the medical system (service, wait times, emergency room waiting period, etc.) has improved.

Go on.

Ask.


I was guessing. If you don't mind what is your tax rate?

[imaeditedbysowulo]

Good luck to him. My buds with chrons usually took percocett and opium for the pain which cost very little.


Hmmm, that doesn't sound like it would help their condition much, just mask the pain that their condition produces. I'm not sure what he's on, I'll ask him this afternoon and get an update but I think it's a type of medication that helps him digest food? I'm not too familiar with chrons so I don't know the whole situation.

Hopefully that cap they are putting on malpractice cases will help keep the cost down. Something definitely needs to be done quick. What the heck do people that don't have healthcare do? Chances are if you have a job that doesn't provide health care benefits you are making a very small amount of money, so how on earth do these people make ends meet?

I earn a pretty decent wage and can barely get by, I just don't understand how a family of four that with both spouses working make the same as me can possibly get by. Oh well, back to work so I don't lose my job.

[Cleetus]

Yes, see Adepts post, he actually lives there.

OK, lets add in the GF's meds of $20 a month. Also, doctors visits, probably 20 a year (guess) with copay of say $15.

12x$20 = $240
20x$15 = $300

I'm still $6000 short each year on your plan.

And yes, the self employed often do take the hit for higher rates, a heck of a lot more. But the self employed often times make a lot more money than others and can foot the bill a little better than I could.
Self employed also are hit with a higher tax rate.

Dude, voodoo is self employed, no insurance, female(got the femal doctor to visit), asthma, allergic to almost everything on earth, and body is destroyed from 30 years of tennis and still trying to teach it.

I have seen the other side of the fence, I do have some expereince on what I am babbling on about.

[Stalemate]

Has it improved?
#?&*&&!!! no. :p


Patients waiting for surgery pay to get it done in the States instead to avoid the risk of actually dying.

Hospitals are filled to overflowing capacity - people sleeping in hallways.

Emergency wards littered with people with colds and headaches because it's free and they have nothing better to do. I waited 12 hours once to be seen by a physician when my gall bladder was close to rupturing (pre operation).



I will say that the prescription med system is quite good though, as with my wife's condition and other ailments in the family we could easily be paying the equivalent of a mortgage payment on meds if it wasn't in place.

[Stalemate]

Self employed also are hit with a higher tax rate.

Dude, voodoo is self employed, no insurance, female(got the femal doctor to visit), asthma, allergic to almost everything on earth, and body is destroyed from 30 years of tennis and still trying to teach it.


Yeah, we got that here too. :(

Sucks for anyone trying to make it on their own, to show a little initiative and *****ion.

You have to work twice as hard to get half as much.

[imaeditedbysowulo]

#?&*&&!!! no. :p


Patients waiting for surgery pay to get it done in the States instead to avoid the risk of actually dying.

Hospitals are filled to overflowing capacity - people sleeping in hallways.

Emergency wards littered with people with colds and headaches because it's free and they have nothing better to do. I waited 12 hours once to be seen by a physician when my gall bladder was close to rupturing (pre operation).

Wow that's really bad. I thought we had it rough waiting an hour past a pre-scheduled appointment or waiting two hours at the emergency room with an actual emergency. That bites.

[ilovetheusers]

Self employed also are hit with a higher tax rate.

Dude, voodoo is self employed, no insurance, female(got the femal doctor to visit), asthma, allergic to almost everything on earth, and body is destroyed from 30 years of tennis and still trying to teach it.

I have seen the other side of the fence, I do have some expereince on what I am babbling on about.


Really, where and when? Who is voodoo and no offense to anyone, but we all have hard breaks now and again. I'm not against helping people, I'm telling you that looking at the national health care systems in countries that have national health care that it's not as good as what we have and what we have is not just for the few.

I know what we have sucks, I'm just saying that nationalized health care is worse.

[Cleetus]

Really, where and when? Who is voodoo and no offense to anyone, but we all have hard breaks now and again. I'm not against helping people, I'm telling you that looking at the national health care systems in countries that have national health care that it's not as good as what we have and what we have is not just for the few.

I know what we have sucks, I'm just saying that nationalized health care is worse.
Voodoo, is the ex-with benefits ;)

She has been tryin to get health care for years now. All the other pro's who actually have health care get it through working spouses.

[ilovetheusers]

Voodoo, is the ex-with benefits ;)

She has been tryin to get health care for years now. All the other pro's who actually have health care get it through working spouses.

Well, good luck to her.

I'm in a simlar boat with the girls, it sucks. I want us all on my insurance so it's just a tiny bit cheaper but we are not married and the kid is not mine.

[Cleetus]

Well, good luck to her.

I'm in a simlar boat with the girls, it sucks. I want us all on my insurance so it's just a tiny bit cheaper but we are not married and the kid is not mine.
Yep, and with the laws against gay marriage nor gay rights, it will be hard for couples like yourself to share eachothers benefits as well.

[ilovetheusers]

Yep, and with the laws against gay marriage nor gay rights, it will be hard for couples like yourself to share eachothers benefits as well.

Yeah I guess so but in my case I could just get married to my GF and end the whole issue. Dunno about the kid though, that might include adoption but maybe not...

[Jediab]

Yeah I guess so but in my case I could just get married to my GF and end the whole issue. Dunno about the kid though, that might include adoption but maybe not...

I dont think you need to adopt. The least you might have to do is become a legal guardian. I might be wrong. Its different in every state I think.