F6'ing the WinXP Installation w/o floppy

[peshek77]

Greetings, all...

I need to install a mass storage controller before I am able to install Windows. The problem is, I don't have a floppy drive on my laptop.

Any ideas as to how can I go around this?


Thanks.


P.S. I have thought about buying an external floppy drive, but that is not an appropriate sollution for me. I will be using this floppy drive ONLY for this and it is not worth he money.

[Archangel42069]

USB Floppy drive.

[BOB IROC]

Like Archangle said use a USB Floppy or would have to use another computer to slipstream your controller drivers right to the Windows disk. I actually did that with My Windows disk for my Nvidia SATA controllers on my desktop.

[geoscomp]

That's an interesting question..what does the laptop have that requires a mass storage controller before windows does it's install routine? Can't imagine it has a scsi or add-on pci interface

[BOB IROC]

Some newer laptops have SATA controllers that are not natively supported by XP just like newer desktop motherboards. I know many of the Dell laptops that we use at work have sata drives, but Dell puts the driver support on their OEM windows disks.

[gemstone]

It does seem entirely 'backward' to need a floppy drive to load a third party driver, when there is in reality so few common ones it seems flippant of MS not to have added support on the install CD, personally I would love to build PC's without floppy drives but the as yet most advanced system still requires one to access the drives. (So does their next iteration-in Beta anyway).

So unless you can 'slipstream' the oem drivers to a CD or borrow a USB floppy from someone you will utimately have to buy one even if it is a redundant piece of kit once you get the OS installed. (don't forget that many anti virus and partition rescue disks still cannot be made into a bootable CD so there may be a time when your sanity will require a USB floppy).

[BOB IROC]

I have never seen a laptop with RAID also, but if a laptop has SATA controllers not recognized by XP install disc then it needs to get them from somewhere. But like I said, most OEMS add the necessary drivers to their OEM disks so you don't have to worry about it.

[peshek77]

Geez were running 2 sata drives on our desktop and never had to use any F6 or added drivers to load XP.


Well guys, I am glad I can show you something new :)) The Gateway CX2724 Convertible Notebook(bought it from BestBuy) uses a SATA RAID device, so my XP installation CD does not even recognize that there are drives attached to the machine. Of course the OEM cd that came with teh laptop has no problem reinstalling the system, but you know how it is, it erases everything on the system and loads a bunch of things I really, really, don't want. The slipstreaming idea seems very reasonable and appropriate. However, I can't say I know how to do it. Would you please give me some more information on that?


Thanks for the help.


P.S.: Sorry I was so slow to respond.

[BOB IROC]

There are all sorts of guides if you search for Slipstreaming Windows XP on a search engine. I used a program called nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/) to help put all the updates I needed onto my disk. I was able to put all the updates and even integrate Media Player 10 to the windows disk.

I downloaded the administrative updates including SP2 and what drivers I needed for my system right to the disk. So if I ever have to re-install Windows my machine has all the drivers I need to get started and I just may have to update them.

[BOB IROC]

Your laptop has one sata drive teh does not install window as raid configuration!!!!!! try repair install.

Whats a repair install going to do if windows cannot find a drive to install Windows on?

[Ferrit]

Bob Iroc is correct. If XP does not recognize the sata controller and it cant find a harddrive to install to then yes you need F6 period.
Slipstreaming is likely the way to do it to avoid having all that OEM garbage installed to the system.

[mduren]

is your laptop capable of legacy usb...if so then you might be able to use a thumb drive.

[Ferrit]

I have yet to see any XP install that allows sata drivers on a thumb drive

[peshek77]

Your laptop has one sata drive teh does not install window as raid configuration!!!!!! try repair install.

I am sorry to say that but you are missing the point. I can do a repair install with no problems, but I don't want to. I put my XP professional CD it, it loads everything before the screen where it asks you what you want to do (repair windows, do a new instal, and exit) and when I say do a new install, it tells me no hard drives detected.

I mean no disrespect, but I know what I am talking about and it seems to me that you are not completely clear on it. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. Sorry.

In any case, thanks for the help.

[peshek77]

There are all sorts of guides if you search for Slipstreaming Windows XP on a search engine. I used a program called nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/) to help put all the updates I needed onto my disk. I was able to put all the updates and even integrate Media Player 10 to the windows disk.

I downloaded the administrative updates including SP2 and what drivers I needed for my system right to the disk. So if I ever have to re-install Windows my machine has all the drivers I need to get started and I just may have to update them.


Thanks, I will definately try that. Oh and by the way, the repair install will go through with no problems, but I don't want all the evaluation/demo/promotion garbade that gets installed with it. So my guess is the drivers for the controller are somewhere on the CD. Even if they are not I know it is some kind of an Intel product, so I am sure I will be able to find the drivers somewhere on the Intel website.

The following is an partial image of my Hardware Devices:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/peshek77/SATA.jpg

It is probably going to take me a cople of days to try the slipstream, because I have major exams tommorow and on Wednesday. As soon as I am able to try it I will post the results.

Thanks for all the help. I have yet to ask a computer question on this formu and not be able to figure it out. :)


P.S.: What is a thub drive? The little usb drive(H:1/2", L:1 1/2" you put on a keychaing?

[Ferrit]

Peshek77 you are correct. The only way I see it happening for you is to use a slipstreamed cd as Bob Iroc says.
Nlite is a very good one,not the only one but a good one.
Here are some other guides
http://forum.ezbsystems.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=530
http://www.igniq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=151

Yes a thumb drive is a usb drive keychain or other,but the XP install will not use it

[geoscomp]

and remember, that uses windows xp tablet edition as a native OS..if you use a standard xp disk instead of a tablet edition disk, then you may lose the tablet customization features.

[Stalemate]

...P.S.: What is a thub drive? The little usb drive(H:1/2", L:1 1/2" you put on a keychaing?


That is exactly what a thumbdrive is.

I use a couple to transfer files around for work and for personal use instead of having to burn to a CD or use (gasp) diskettes.

If you're using WinXP then they are automatically recognized. Some Win98 systems will require drivers to see them.

One of mine (SanDisk Cruzer Mini) has gone through the washing machine and the drier. Twice.

Still works.

[3fingersalute]

Bob Iroc is correct. If XP does not recognize the sata controller and it cant find a harddrive to install to then yes you need F6 period.
Slipstreaming is likely the way to do it to avoid having all that OEM garbage installed to the system.
Exactly - We purchase strictly Dell computers only here at work (state contract). Anyhow, I will not use the build that comes on the computer from Dell, nor will I reinstall Windows with the cd they provide, because its bloated with crap I don't need or want.

Every Dell I get in gets the partition wiped from the drive on first bootup; I never even bother booting to the OS they have loaded on the hard drive. I use our own corporate cd, slipstreamed, etc. and then make a ghost image when I'm all done so that if there are multiple computers, I can just push my good image out to the rest of them.

[3fingersalute]

is your laptop capable of legacy usb...if so then you might be able to use a thumb drive.
Windows 2000 and XP simply look to the A: drive for the additional drivers. You don't get to specify what drive letter you want, so a thumb drive, usb hard drive, cd-drive etc. is of no use for this instance.

[mduren]

silly me but if your bios supports bootable usb like mine...why can't you make a thumb drive or an external hard drive bootable with the winxp setup and your sata drivers on it?

[Ferrit]

silly me but if your bios supports bootable usb like mine...why can't you make a thumb drive or an external hard drive bootable with the winxp setup and your sata drivers on it?

Distinct possibilities

[peshek77]

Peshek77 you are correct. The only way I see it happening for you is to use a slipstreamed cd as Bob Iroc says.
Nlite is a very good one,not the only one but a good one.
Here are some other guides
http://forum.ezbsystems.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=530
http://www.igniq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=151

Yes a thumb drive is a usb drive keychain or other,but the XP install will not use it


I will definately give those a try. Thanks Ferrit. And also thank you Bob Iroc.

Here is a list of the posible boot places (if they are detected) I can use:

CDROM/DVD
Removable Disk
Main Hard Drive
USB Storage Stick
USB Hard Drive
Boot to LAN

I acually have a USB Hard Drive and it detected it at startup. However, I don't have an OS installed there. I am not quite certain, but I think my options just got expanded a little bit. Am I correct :_)?

In any case I will try to slipstream the SATA drivers to a CD and see what happanes. I know geoscomp mentioned something about loosing the "special" features of the Tablet PC Edition. That is a concern I have. I will use WinXP Professional. This should allow me to use the additional services correct?

[geoscomp]

Here (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/news/Top_Ten_Benefits.pdf) is a list of the added features of the tablet edition. There is no way to know if you will maintain these or lose them as far as I know. Nobody that I know has tried it yet. I think there are a few things, such as instant landscape/portrait display modes, etc. that aren't included in that list

[peshek77]

Here (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/news/Top_Ten_Benefits.pdf) is a list of the added features of the tablet edition. There is no way to know if you will maintain these or lose them as far as I know. Nobody that I know has tried it yet. I think there are a few things, such as instant landscape/portrait display modes, etc. that aren't included in that list


Right now I am creating an ISO(with nLite) from my OEM cd and it detected it as Windows XP Professional, not Tablet PC Edition. I was able to weed out the "PRELOAD" and a couple other directories that I think contain the "garbage". We will see. I will post results shortly... That is .. if I can get my windows working after I try this :_)!

[peshek77]

Well... The first try of slipstreaming was unsuccessful. I even used my OEM version of the CD, but I guess the folders that I decided not to include (PRELOAD, etc.) actually have the drivers I need, because when I booted it up, it didn't find hard drives on my PC. It found my external USB drive, but didn't find my internal drive :(.

I tried looking for the drivers from the Intel website and all I could find was an installer for the "Intel Matrix Storage Manager". I tried extracting it, but it just gave me the setup files, not the actual drivers. Nothing on the OEM cd looks like drivers, everything is in file types I can't open/extract.

I am pretty sure that the Tablet PC edition is Professional SP2, because of this (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/tabletpc/upgrade/download.mspx) article.

[peshek77]

I woke up a bit early this morning so I had time to play around with nLite again and make another image. It turns out the drivers for the SATA controller are ON the repair cd after all - (...i386/drv/scs). I slapped my forehead when I found them. It's not like they did a really good effor in hiding them. I don't know how I missed them the first time around.


I slippedstreamed those to the CD and what do you know, Windows was able to detect my internal hard drives. :) Now I haven't installed from the CD to complete the test, but that will happen very soon as well.

I feel cofident I am at the final stretch here, but I couldn't do it without your help. Special thanks to Bob Iroc and Ferrit.

Thanks again.

P.S.: I will post results one I make a test installation.

[Ferrit]

Thats great, good luck!!!

[3fingersalute]

silly me but if your bios supports bootable usb like mine...why can't you make a thumb drive or an external hard drive bootable with the winxp setup and your sata drivers on it?
so basically slipstreaming like we mentioned above?

[slgrieb]

This has been a truly interesting and informative thread! Got to learn about a couple of useful programs I was completely unfamiliar with, and that is always great. Still, I think I would have just coughed up $20 for a USB floppy drive. I have one for office use, and it has been handier than I ever expected.

[Ferrit]

This has been a truly interesting and informative thread! Got to learn about a couple of useful programs I was completely unfamiliar with, and that is always great. Still, I think I would have just coughed up $20 for a USB floppy drive. I have one for office use, and it has been handier than I ever expected.

You are correct it has been a good one. :)
Now the 64,000 dollar question is
When the hell is microsoft going to realize we dont really use floppies at all?
Did they just have a brain fart after handing out all them usb sticks?
:guns:

[slgrieb]

XP is supposed to be the last version of Windows to require a floppy for any reason. But, yeah, you still have to wonder why MS didn't remove this limitation after W2K (well, even then!). I guess when your OS is shipping something like 2 years late, a few details fall through the cracks, eh?

Still the original release version of XP was so much more polished than either W2K or 98, I still hope that Vista may have it's act together when it launches. Now if MS could only give us a compelling reason to run the dang thing!

[BOB IROC]

If you could repair install and wanted to upgrade to pro you only had to insert your pro disk with windows running and choose upgrade. :mult:


Because if you read the post he wanted a fresh install without all the extra crap that the OEM installs when using the restore disks.

Teh no sata configuration, thus your laptop has sata drive running in pata mode.

On what Basis are you saying his Hard Drive is running in pata mode? There is nothing that states that there. Just because his boot order doesn't have SATA in it doesn't mean it is automatically not in sata mode. All it says is "main harddrive".

[peshek77]

[
... As far as the other programs he did not want with the Laptop install disk window does include one handy tool unstall programs.

Yes, but I am not about to spend a week to track all the registry keys directories and all the other crap that the programs have produced and the uninstakk routine "forgot" to delete :).

By the way, as you can see from the list of boot locations I posted, there is NO floppy drive option :). Of course that is not a surprise, since I don't have a floppy on my notebook. I still cant find the regular drivers on the intel website. I do not know why. Good thing they were on the repair CD.

One more thing... What is peta mode? And for the last time my laptop does need SATA controller drivers installed to find the hard drive. Why? Because when the drivers were not slipstreamed to the CD, it found NO hard drives to install to. And when ther drivers were slipstreamed to the CD, it DID find the drive. I don't know how to better explain this.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and the infromation. I am a member of only one forum and this thread just perferctly represents why I have chosen this one.

Stay smart, people!

[geoscomp]

One other thought..you said earlier that you had a sata RAID config. The specs for that computer show a single sata drive. Often, with a raid config, if you disable raid in the bios, the xp install will see a sata drive. I know this does you no good for a repair install, but I am trying to figure out a single drive raid. (oh..btw..sp2 does include much of the tablet edition stuff, but tablet edition is still a superset of xp pro even with the sp2 installed.)

[peshek77]

About the year 2000 I had a PC that had a ATA RAID Controller and I had only one hard drive. I still had to use a floppy disk to install the drivers. I admit I am not too familiar with RAID technology, but I had seen this before, so I wasn't too surprised.

geoscomp:

I have already destroyed the ISO without the slipstreamed drivers, but I will burn it again, disable bios and see what happanes. I really don't think I need it anyway since I have only one hard drive. Am I correct? Is there any reason to have RAID if you have only one hard drive? And regarding the Tablet PC Edition being a "greater" proffesional, I used my OEM recovery CD, so I am hoping that the extended services will be ther, unless they were in the "PRELOAD" directory. We will see.

[BOB IROC]

It is probably just a SATA controller that is RAID capable. I know my NVidia controller on my motherboard can be set up with RAID using the controller set up or after Windows installed. But, yes you do need at least 2 hard drives in order to make a RAID.

[slgrieb]

Peshek, you don't have to have a BIOS that supports booting from a floppy in order to load a drive controller. If your computer's BIOS can detect an USB diskette drive, Windows Setup should be able to load a driver for your controller. Boot options don't matter.

[peshek77]

Peshek, you don't have to have a BIOS that supports booting from a floppy in order to load a drive controller. If your computer's BIOS can detect an USB diskette drive, Windows Setup should be able to load a driver for your controller. Boot options don't matter.


Hehe. I know. I just mentioned that because of what Ferrit asked earlier.

[street1]

Have you ever looked at nLite?

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4324.html

[peshek77]

Have you ever looked at nLite?

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4324.html


Wow...I haven't posted here for quite some time now :_)

street1: Thanks for the tip about nLite. I used it and it worked pretty good, but apparently WinXP SP2 is not sufficient to run my laptop/tablet convertible. In the end, I stayed with the crappy OEM version and I uninstalled what I didn't want. Even took the time to remove strain registry keys and directories so I am in pretty good shape now :_). It took me a while, but it is done.

I did a DriveXML back up yesterday, so even if something goes bad, I have a pretty easy job of restoring things back to normal.

Thanks to all for the help!

[slgrieb]

Hello Peshek! Very interesting to read how this all turned out! Drive controllers can be stranger than they should be. One of my spare computers has a Promise FastTrack Tx2 RAID controller (even though the machine has only a single drive connected to it at present) and the controller wouldn't let me access the drive until I configured it as a 1+0 Span RAID array!

[peshek77]

Hehe. I hear you slgrieb. I recently noticed that the Recovery CD installs a program called "Intel Matrix Storage Manager" - a RAID controller. Don't mind the fact that I have only one hard disk and is absolutely useless to me, except if i wanted to slow down my machine a little bit :). AND there was a process in the start up tree that was supposed to let me know if an error occured with the RAID operation. WoW! How helpful would that be for me?!? :grin:


I haven't had the time to try it, but I am pretty sure that I can safely remove that garbage and still run my machine as normal. What do you think? And if you in fact believe so too, what should I back up if something goes bad hehe. You never know.

Thanks.