Prices Ethics

[HipHoper]

For the one's that are self-employed...
I wonder how you charge your clients for windows re-installation and backup/restore of their data.
I find this process to take AT LEAST 2.5 hour if done properly with all the office/utils/updates and such.
I'm asking this, Because sometimes it takes more than an hour just to copy the clients data (If he have multimedia files, Or you decide to clone his primary drive to be on the safe side).
I find it sometime not comfortable to charge the client for all the work I done, Since I charge by the hour.
I had this client which I've needed to install 2 new computers at his office 2 days ago.
I approximate the install/backup work of the 2 computers for a total of 7 hours, And because there was a problem with his office router while I was there, And because I was asked to update some software on other computers, I spent there a total of 12 hours..., Now 12 hours and 7 hours come to something like a 300$ difference in total cost....
What I did is, I've suggested the client to buy a bank of 10 hours when he gets a 15$ discount, And then He will pay less than actual cost.
But what do you do when things takes much longer than you've planned, And there wasn't any other faster way to get the job done ?

[xpuser357]

SOOO I take it you quote them a price on the finished job. On your job where other things that sort of relate, IE, router ,harddrive, and so on
should be extra!! Where you went to reload operating system and other software, and fix a (router problem, and updating) should be extra. By the hour. I guess you could make up a list like a flat rate, and think through
possible hang ups, that may occur oooppss were talking about computers:knife: but if you add per hour and do not quote them a price.
you may get ahead

[HipHoper]

The thing is that on the one side, If it's a client that trusts you, He will pay, But on the other side - BECAUSE this clients trusts you, You want to be considerate in cases where there was unpredictable problems, And this is something that you don't know everytime, How long it will take...

[xpuser357]

Did you quote them a price before you did the job?? And trust that you can do the job that is presented to you. or trust in that you will not rip him off??
I would charge per hour straight out. Just because you cannot see what will come next. Per hour covers extented times that would normally be quite easy
and quick.

[HipHoper]

I always charge per-hour, But the job took much longer than what I've predicted since the office adsl router not functioning, And since one of the installed computers had 2 ADSL VPN connection PLUS the office network, And there were problem configuring all of the to work.
So when things get nasty like that, I feel like there is no justice in charging the customer to pay fully for the un predicted work

[BOB IROC]

I have an hourly rate that I use for certain things. I basically start with $20 for the basic diagnostics which include a Hardware scan using PC Doctor or built in diagnostics from the OEM. I also run a few online virus scans. If they want a data back up the basic charge is $30 and for that I back up via my network and if they want it on Discs it is an extra $20. I only backup MyDocuments and Favorites for that and if they have any other data like Outlook contacts and settings or some financial program like quicken then it is $10 per program. I also make no 100% guarantee that I will get all their data and it will be functional after restoring it. Then a restore using the System restore CDs/Partition is $60 and I run all the online updates from Microsoft and install the basic plug-ins (Acrobat Reader, Flash, Quicktime, Shockwave, Java, etc...). I will put their data back and call it a day. If they want other programs installed/configured then it is $10 per program, but usually I will tell the customer that they will need to install their programs and peripherals when they get the computer back. Since I usually do work at home this is not a problem and I only do this for side job money.

Now if they want the work to be done onsite there is always an hourly rate of $45/hr and I have had customers pay lots of money for me to do the work at their house because they insisted I do it there. On that note I refuse to do work on anyone using dialup and if the computer is too old and running something like Windows 95/98 I usually tell them it is not worth it. I had a teacher at my school ask me about a month ago to look at her pentium 60 running windows 95. Couldn't understand why it was so slow. I politely refused and told her that she should really get a $399 computer or something. I mean she makes $80,000/yr I am sure she can afford to upgrade.

[HipHoper]

"anyone using dialup" LOL...

Thanks Bob for sharing this info.
It's great to hear that you have it all planned out. This prices are very cheap in my opinion, But maybe as an extra job it's fine for you. My "office" Is also at home, But I give 99% of the service at my client's offices.
Another thing is that my clients wants a SOLUTION. I think that it will only will get me in troubles if i will get too specific and charge him for every program.
Usually things work great, It's just these problematic cases from time to time that are a bit challenging.

[Guts3d]

I charge a flat rate per hour for all work, and any time over the hour is considered a full hour in my book. I also tell the customer up front that I won't accept checks as I had a few bounce, and chasing them down was more trouble than it was worth. I sometimes get these customers that want to talk a bit, so I have no trouble letting them do so while I am on the clock. Honestly, I have found that most people don't care what you charge as long as you fix their problem and give them advice about surge suppressors, backup strategies, etc.

[HipHoper]

Hey Guts,

"I sometimes get these customers that want to talk a bit, so I have no trouble letting them do so while I am on the clock"....

LOL...I love the funny bits in the response to this post....

Maybe you should define yourself "Computer tech. And a shrink in time of need" :O)

Usually the clients that care about what you charge, Will let you know it through their body language, Or they'll say "Leave it as it is, I don't this to work right now, And your time is precious" (Translation - You're expensive :O)

[NooNoo]

I quote a fixed price for a straight format and reload of windows, then if they want more programs adding back in and their data, it's half as much again. The format/reload takes place on my bench at home. I explain that it will take 3-6 hours depending on the updates downloaded. For 90% of the time I am not working on the computer - it is doing things and I come back and check it from time to time.

If I deliver it back to them and they ask me to hook it up to whatever, it's a straight per hour basis.

For example, I got round to one guy who wanted it hooked up to his wireless router, no problem - then I found that he wanted a printer hooked up as well (no problem either), then he wanted his email set up, another profile and the list grew longer and longer.

Then he said - are you done yet? I need to go!!!!

I just billed him for more labour than the hardware was worth... and he paid without a problem.

After all, if you take your car to a mechanic, you expect a fixed price for a particular service and you pay extra for the bits and pieces you want done as well. If the mechanic finds something they phone and tell you how much it's going to cost on top of the fixed price. If the garage has always served you well in the past, you are quite likely to just authorise the work and pay up.

[HipHoper]

"Then he said - are you done yet? I need to go!!!!"
That is not nice - BUT - I guess we need to disconnect emotionally from our clients (I mean those one that pay :O)

This is an interesting point, That the garage calls you, But if you say in advance how long it's about to take, So as long as it's in the aproximated time, Usually you don't here a skweak from the client...

I know I do things as fast as I can, And my real profit is when I install windows from my "images" (now with the universal restore I wrote in my posts), And then I "finish" the computer in an hour or so and charge for 2-2 1/2 hours (Depend on client restore data amount). That is the cases that are most benefiting to me, because it takes me less time than it really should.

[BOB IROC]

...This prices are very cheap in my opinion, But maybe as an extra job it's fine for you....

I have been told that many times and have considered raising my prices. But usually I only have 1 or 2 computers at a time so I am not spending every minute in front of the computer.

Start Restore... walk away. Start "Microsoft Update" Walk Away, reboot start "Microsoft Update" again to get the updates for the updates.... It is very time consuming but I do enjoy doing it and if I can make a couple extra hundred bucks in a weekend for a couple computers, All is good. There are scenerios where I will end up charging more so that is why I start with a simple diagnostic fee and call them and present them with their options. Most of my work (at least lately) is the result of virus/spyware infections and that is why I listed my data back up/restore prices in my previous post. If a customer wants me to try and repair the infection(s) I charge quite a bit more.

[HipHoper]

"get the updates for the updates" LOL....
It reminds me Dharma And Greg with their 2 dogs, When Greg asks dharma what's their story she tells him that Anzio (The little one) Is the dog's dog.....

[Ferrit]

I have to say a basic reload of windows is 3 hours @30.00
I wont do that job at their place as its just too iffy and frankly 3
hours is whats chargeable. If you can save the data favorites/documents/music/wab and setting and reload with all software and updates and be done in 3 hours you are unbelievably good. Charge wise it is 3 hours but time wise it is usually at least 4 to 5 . Data copying and such is one on my specialties. It sets me apart from the usual suspects in computer stores. They cannot take the time. So I have created a niche market and believe me costs are not a question. I keep it reasonable.
Its their data and reliability that are the 2 greatest needed seconded by info on backup systems that are automatic like usb hard drives and ghost.

[HipHoper]

"Data copying and such is one on my specialties"....Special agent BOND....Ferrit BOND.... :O)

If the computer you are working on is of important client/data, Then it must be fully backed up via some imaging software (I love acronis), On an hard drive or DVD-R, And this process by itself might take 1/2 an hour up to 2 hours. And in order to be able to do that, You need HD space and proper connection to it (Via network or Usb/FW).

Just bought a 500gb drive today, Just to be able to keep client's images for a week after I bring them their computer in case something have been forgotten to be restored....Most of the images won't fit a DVD-R cause of their size, So HD space seems the best solution

[Ferrit]

"Data copying and such is one on my specialties"....Special agent BOND....Ferrit BOND.... :O)

Umm no not special agent, i just take the time to save the data. Its what distinguishes and employs me over and above typical computer people who arent allowed the time and frankly arent really good at it either.

If the computer you are working on is of important client/data,
UMM I think thats why I wont do it at the customers Any number of things can go wrong or the computer isnt booting correctly or its virused and needs ot be put in my scanning system

Then it must be fully backed up via some imaging software (I love acronis), On an hard drive or DVD-R, And this process by itself might take 1/2 an hour up to 2 hours. And in order to be able to do that, You need HD space and proper connection to it (Via network or Usb/FW).

DVDr's are nearly useless nowadays

Just bought a 500gb drive today, Just to be able to keep client's images for a week after I bring them their computer in case something have been forgotten to be restored....Most of the images won't fit a DVD-R cause of their size, So HD space seems the best solution

External drives are the way to go

[Niclo Iste]

My general ethics are different than my offices policies. I judge on a few things and this may be why my clients always come back to me and more frequently. I guage their personality, if they are the type that proves that they wouldn't be happy even if you offered to gold plate their whole computer for free they get charged every hour and if over by even 1 minute that's another hour. If they are more of a customer who needs help and in dire straits or they are a good natured person I'll cut them a discount or donate hardware I have of my own to reduce the costs a bit. This generally comes down to me shaving an hour off of laber which is the best I can offer because time logs would really dispute that if I gave them more off the price. I can live without a lunch break if it makes a client happy. My goal is to one make the customer happy, two fix their problem, three give them ease of mind. I guess you can say I stick to this because if I can make them happy even if the problem isn't able to be fixed they'll still be understanding and pay the bill. If I can achieve both 1 and 2 the third is easy because all it comes down to is doing a quick teaching and helping them understand what happened and if possible how to prevent it. The process has given me many opportunities to be referred to other potential clients by these people and has served me well at my old job. Building the reputation again at my new job is only a matter of time but will show its results in due time.

[HipHoper]

"I can live without a lunch break if it makes a client happy"....Expensive taste in food I guess :O)

[Niclo Iste]

"I can live without a lunch break if it makes a client happy"....Expensive taste in food I guess :O)
Hehe well sometimes my lunch tastes are expensive. I'm a fan of Sushi and we have a Sushi bar across the street from our office.

[xpuser357]

Ugh and double ugh Raw fish? Mine has to be cooked.
just my 2 cents:wave:

[Guts3d]

Raw fish aside, I agree with Niclo on the cutting of breaks for certain customers, donating a part or two, etc. I have customers that wouldn't bat an eyelash for a bill that was nearly $800, and others that would scrutinize every little charge. I grant freebies and discounts accordingly, and charge through the nose for others. (Don't tell anyone, but I am trying to buy my way into Valhalla with kind deeds to people of limited funds...)

[Niclo Iste]

LOL so does that mean that none of you would appreciate a relaxing evening eating Nagiri style salmon sushi with a fine glass of Remy Martin? Mmmm that's just mouth watering to think of. Calamari sushi on the side with it would be good to. Tell ya what though that's a great way to end a good day or even a day where you close a really good deal with a client. High priced liquor and raw fish is the way to go. Plus the fish isn't all too filling so you can get a really nice buzz going from the glasses of cognac you down.

[HipHoper]

I'm more like eating pizza in front of my computer screen....

[HipHoper]

Now one of the lawyers in the office I spent 10 hours this week calls me if I can check her home computer "not specially, but when I'll be around the office", So I told her that I will see her in a month or two....These cheap lawyers....Million dollars contracts yes, Paying for service...What ? You need to pay for this ?
I told one of the secretaries, that i'm sure she have some good side to her, And they'll probably find it in archeological digging....

[HipHoper]

Another secretary that heard that story told me that this lawyer took everything they've put in the office refregiator. The first time, They asked her if she took all the cheese an hour after they've bought it, She said "yes, I didn't notice", And after that they've put STICKERS WITH NAMES on the food they've bought, And it happend again.....This time she also said that she haven't noticed....So next time they put a big sticker on the food "(Her name) DONT TOUCH !!!"

[Niclo Iste]

Another secretary that heard that story told me that this lawyer took everything they've put in the office refregiator. The first time, They asked her if she took all the cheese an hour after they've bought it, She said "yes, I didn't notice", And after that they've put STICKERS WITH NAMES on the food they've bought, And it happend again.....This time she also said that she haven't noticed....So next time they put a big sticker on the food "(Her name) DONT TOUCH !!!"
I had the same issue in one office. I started putting a note saying "I spit on this." My lunch never went missing again.

[HipHoper]

LOL....Maybe they just don't like sushi with raw spit :O)

[Guts3d]

I don't like either!

Back on the subject, though, I just had a newly reffered customer call with a Dell that won't stay on. I figured it is either a bad power supply, blocked or defective fan, or something heat related. I then told him it will run about X dollars, but it could be as little as X - $25 or as much as X + $100, depending on parts . He was happy with that, and I feel confident that he will be pleased as punch to find out it was only a bit dusty with a power wire stopping the chip fan, causing thermal shutdown.

[BOB IROC]

I don't like either!

Back on the subject, though, I just had a newly reffered customer call with a Dell that won't stay on. I figured it is either a bad power supply, blocked or defective fan, or something heat related. I then told him it will run about X dollars, but it could be as little as X - $25 or as much as X + $100, depending on parts . He was happy with that, and I feel confident that he will be pleased as punch to find out it was only a bit dusty with a power wire stopping the chip fan, causing thermal shutdown.

I just had a similar situation with Dell that a customer took to Geek Squad and they told her that the motherboard was fried and or the processor and it would cost $600+ to fix the computer. Well she said forget it and came to me and asked how much I would charge to get her data off the drive since Geek Squad wanted $200 just to do that. I told her that I could do it for less than half that depending on how much data she had.

Well when I got the computer I experienced the thermal shutdown problem and when I inspected the computer I saw no fan problems. So I threw my test PSU on it and it ran fine. Called her and told her that all she needs is a power supply that should run about $30 and the computer would be fine. So for $100 she got her computer back and all I had to do is install the PSU and run the updates for her computer. Good as new. She then proceeded to call Best Buy and ask for her money back on the diagnostics.

[HipHoper]

These are the cases that differentiate us from the competition.

The thing is that some (A lot) of people are'nt honest, Becuase they are more flimsy results oriented (I want to get as much money I can get, Because I don't have control over the situation, And the client may never return - It's like a self filling prophecy) And not focused about deeper meaning of their personality and lives, that in the long run will shone their value even in the shape of money.

I am an avid fan of "The law of attraction", And if you look at your life, You will see that you attract people to your expereince that have common beliefs as you...."Tell me who are your friends, And I'll tell you who you are"

[Guts3d]

Last week I had a newly referred customer tell me that she was shown a power supply tester hooked up to her computer by a Geek Squad member and "one of the little lights wasn't working" and they told her she needed a new power supply. She brought it to me since they wanted $240 for parts and labor. I listened to ther beep code, shut it down, and re-inserted the ram that was ajar. Total cost, $25. I told her the light that wasn't showing was for legacy ISA slots, and they should have known that.

[HipHoper]

Unbelieveable S#!t.....
By the way at these work prices, I would have sent my clients to you and still make a profit. The only minor problem is the distance.....:O)

[Guts3d]

No way, I am referring some comps to a buddy right now because of the volume. I only charged $25 as it was a quick fix.

[Niclo Iste]

The Dork Patrol A.K.A. The Geek Squad stories reminded me of one that I had a few years back. I had a friend ask me to look at her computer and update her network when all was said and done it cost her about $75. She told me she was so surprised I didn't charge her more. I proceeded to ask why to which she replied "Well a month ago I took my computer in to get 256Mb of RAM at Geek Squad and they had to have the computer for 3 days and charged me for the memory and 3 hours labor". Total bill for her that they gave her was $380. The memory only cost her $60! I about fell over and she asked what was wrong I told her that I'd have installed it only for the cost of the memory and a can of mountain dew. Who the hell charges 3 hours labor for a 3 minute task of open the case pop in the ram and close the case.

[Guts3d]

To be fair, they had 3 days to get it right, it might have taken many tries to get it inserted correctly.

[arch0nmyc0n]

I had the same issue in one office. I started putting a note saying "I spit on this." My lunch never went missing again.

I had the same problem when I worked in a call center. So I put a bunch of exlax in it one day and found out who it was in no time.

Anyways, pricing... I follow mostly what Noo was saying. I price out various common tasks at fixed rates. Everything else is hourly and depends who I'm working for. If it's lilttle old grandma who gets me hot chocolate and cookies while I work on her computer then it's usually $45 an hour. If it's person who it takes 5 minutes to walk to the computer in the house then I'm charging much more. Also depends on hazard.. I remember working on a police station network where they needed some new cables run. The only way I could get them run was to put them under the floor as they wanted the jacks in the middle of the room. I looked underneith the building in the crawlspace... OMG it was NASTY... absolutely digusting... there was a broken sewer pipe spewing various human waste products through a crack... nasty nasty nasty... so I told the guy... $85 an hour up top $300 an hour underneith and I needed safety clothing provided to me....I never expected to hear back from them but they called me back and agreed because nobody else would do it. so 3 hours underneith later I walk away with $900... it took a very long shower to feel clean after that... even computers with excessive amounts of dust and dirt in them I charge them a "biohazard" fee. I also give discounts too. I do work for large bottles of booze, or even boxes of cookies (depending on the kind of cookie). There was a cancer patient I did work for and it ended up taking like 4 hours. All I charged her was a hug. If anyone asks how much I usually say $65 depending on conditions.