It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
NooNoo
February 9th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Before you can make a judgement about the Arch Bishops remarks you need to know what he was talking about (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia)
houseisland
February 9th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Before you can make a judgement about the Arch Bishops remarks you need to know what he was talking about (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia)
I have made no judgement, yet.
It is just an interesting and thought provoking story, one I will continue to follow.
In Canada, we have an official policy of multi-culturalism. And for the most part it works: In the summer, here in (greater) Vancouver, I have seen Korean, Sikh, Black, Chinese, white, etc. kids quite happily out playing street hockey together. My dentist is a Sikh. I have had a Chinese doctor. The Lieutenant-Governor-General of British Columbia (the statutory head of the provincial government) is an aboriginal. My daughter once said that if she didn't have non-white friends, she wouldn't have any friends. There are areas of the city now where Sikhs and Chinese people are the majority. There are problems, but all in all, it makes for an interesting place to live, and everyone gets along OK, mostly.
Big problems arise, however, when people spurn/spit on the fundamental building blocks of the encompassing liberal/secular society in which they have made their new homes -- the Rule of Law, the separtion of church (religion) and state, human rights (gender and racial equality, etc.), freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, etc., etc. These building blocks are the foundations of the economic prosperity that has drawn the spitters to their new homeland. The building blocks are also the foundations of the social tolerance that allows them to live peacefuly with legal protection in their new homeland. Yet the spitters seek to turn their new homeland into that which they fled: a land in which there is no Rule of Law, in which religion is the state, in which there are no human rights, and in which there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of association and no freedom of religion (unless it is theirs).
Now lest this starts to sound like some lunatic, white-supremacist tirade against immigration, I should say that I do not see the big problems being limited to immigrant, non-white, religious zealots. There are white zealots a plenty. In both Canada and the United States there is a rising tide of Christian fundamentalism, which seeks to transform goverment into fundamentalist Christian theocracy -- not much different than the Taleban, really -- just change the frame of reference. Witness the struggles in the Republican party at the moment -- secular conservatisms vs religious conservatism.
Anyway... it is all a bit worrisome... and enough inarticulate rambling....
:eek2:
____________________________________________
http://i1.tinypic.com/n5ngxw.jpg
It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
Jediab
February 11th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I have made no judgement, yet.
It is just an interesting and thought provoking story, one I will continue to follow.
In Canada, we have an official policy of multi-culturalism. And for the most part it works: In the summer, here in (greater) Vancouver, I have seen Korean, Sikh, Black, Chinese, white, etc. kids quite happily out playing street hockey together. My dentist is a Sikh. I have had a Chinese doctor. The Lieutenant-Governor-General of British Columbia (the statutory head of the provincial government) is an aboriginal. My daughter once said that if she didn't have non-white friends, she wouldn't have any friends. There are areas of the city now where Sikhs and Chinese people are the majority. There are problems, but all in all, it makes for an interesting place to live, and everyone gets along OK, mostly.
Big problems arise, however, when people spurn/spit on the fundamental building blocks of the encompassing liberal/secular society in which they have made their new homes -- the Rule of Law, the separtion of church (religion) and state, human rights (gender and racial equality, etc.), freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, etc., etc. These building blocks are the foundations of the economic prosperity that has drawn the spitters to their new homeland. The building blocks are also the foundations of the social tolerance that allows them to live peacefuly with legal protection in their new homeland. Yet the spitters seek to turn their new homeland into that which they fled: a land in which there is no Rule of Law, in which religion is the state, in which there are no human rights, and in which there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of association and no freedom of religion (unless it is theirs).
Now lest this starts to sound like some lunatic, white-supremacist tirade against immigration, I should say that I do not see the big problems being limited to immigrant, non-white, religious zealots. There are white zealots a plenty. In both Canada and the United States there is a rising tide of Christian fundamentalism, which seeks to transform goverment into fundamentalist Christian theocracy -- not much different than the Taleban, really -- just change the frame of reference. Witness the struggles in the Republican party at the moment -- secular conservatisms vs religious conservatism.
Anyway... it is all a bit worrisome... and enough inarticulate rambling....
:eek2:
____________________________________________
http://i1.tinypic.com/n5ngxw.jpg
It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
Christian fundamentalism does not seek to control government. That was just one idiot saying a bunch of stupid sh*t. I do not know any Christian's, and I know a LOT, who want to overtake the government.
The battle within the Republican party are the Liberals vs Conservatives. Most, including Bush are running to the left, leaving the conservative right behind. That is the conflict. The Republicans vs the RINOs.
houseisland
February 12th, 2008, 12:30 AM
I should probably leave well enough alone... but oh well...
My comments are not anti-Christian nor are they anti-Islamic or anti-Sikh. They are merely anti-fanatical.
Christian fundamentalism does not seek to control government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXwjVXqw05Q
The American constitution is a great secular document. It is in many ways a fruition of 18th century elightenment humanism (Jefferson, Frankline, Paine, et al), which in turn is a seeking of a rational alternative to the preceeding years of religious civil wars in Europe.
di**** ei Caesaris tunc ait illis reddite ergo quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo.
Mat 22:21 (Interesting that the filters here censor the Jerome's Vulgate text?)
That was just one idiot saying a bunch of stupid sh*t.
Thanks. If you are talking about me, I'm flattered.
The battle within the Republican party are the Liberals vs Conservatives. Most, including Bush are running to the left, leaving the conservative right behind. That is the conflict. The Republicans vs the RINOs.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no liberals in the Republican party -- a Liberal Republican is somewhat of an oxymoron. But I suppose it depends on how you define liberal. If you define it in terms of fiscal/social ideology then there are no liberals in their ranks. If you define it terms of moral/religious stance, then maybe there are, but then we are getting back to where we started. If the division is as you say "Liberals vs Conservatives" it is interesting to see where the evangelicals are firmly lined up.
Nice talking to ya.
:wave:
____________________________________________
http://i1.tinypic.com/n5ngxw.jpg
It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
NooNoo
February 12th, 2008, 04:41 AM
Back on topic...
It transpires that the media got the wrong end of the stick because the Archbishop is an Academic whereas the general public (and most journalists) are not. If the Archbishop had done the lecture first and then the interview, none of this would have happened. When you check the context it is a whole different ball game.
Apparently journalists found the lecture and the interview used opaque language. Hey stupid, just learn to use the english language and you will see that it was quite transparent. A difficult subject was addressed out of context and without the aid of a spindoctor.
Shame on you Archbishop for assuming the general populace understands long words and has an attention span equal to yours!
CCT
February 12th, 2008, 05:06 AM
Perhaps the lesson to be learned here is that the 'media' are the last people to be trusted with providing information truthfully and/or accurately.
One might go so far as to say that they create news these days rather than report it!
The jaded public needs more and more titillation to focus their attention (and thus sell advertising), so we are provided with 'tabloid' snippets designed to do just that.
The common denominator has become, well, common. Sadly, the 'common man' is a Darwinian throwback.
:)
Jediab
February 12th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I should probably leave well enough alone... but oh well...
My comments are not anti-Christian nor are they anti-Islamic or anti-Sikh. They are merely anti-fanatical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXwjVXqw05Q
The American constitution is a great secular document. It is in many ways a fruition of 18th century elightenment humanism (Jefferson, Frankline, Paine, et al), which in turn is a seeking of a rational alternative to the preceeding years of religious civil wars in Europe.
di**** ei Caesaris tunc ait illis reddite ergo quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo.
Mat 22:21 (Interesting that the filters here censor the Jerome's Vulgate text?)
Thanks. If you are talking about me, I'm flattered.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no liberals in the Republican party -- a Liberal Republican is somewhat of an oxymoron. But I suppose it depends on how you define liberal. If you define it in terms of fiscal/social ideology then there are no liberals in their ranks. If you define it terms of moral/religious stance, then maybe there are, but then we are getting back to where we started. If the division is as you say "Liberals vs Conservatives" it is interesting to see where the evangelicals are firmly lined up.
Nice talking to ya.
:wave:
____________________________________________
http://i1.tinypic.com/n5ngxw.jpg
It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
The idiot I spoke of was not you, it was the idiot in the youtube video you provided. And I will say this again, Christians do not want to overtake government in the way that you are talking about. And the evangelicals will vote who they want to vote for. Just like anyone else.
And the Liberal Republicans, aka RINOs, that I talk of are the ones who have been a part of out of control spending, amnesty for illegals, global warming, and such. Things that a Conservative Repulican would not have done or been for.
geoscomp
February 12th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Liberal Republicans are for global warming?
Jediab
February 12th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Liberal Republicans are for global warming?
Yep some of them are. Pawlenty is one of them.
But I am sorry House for hijacking your thread. To help get back on it....
Your description of Canada is a lot like the US with the many different kinds of people living together. We live in harmony most of the time too.
What is the official multi-culturalism policy? Sounds like a law or some sort.
houseisland
February 19th, 2008, 09:19 PM
But I am sorry House for hijacking your thread.
No problem. That's what threads are for.
:devil:
To help get back on it....
Actually NooNoo was the one working to get back on topic, coming to the defence of the beleaguered Archbishop. Not surprising that the press takes the somewhat out-of-context sound bite approach to news. Controversy sells. Interesting story for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the press handling of it.
Your description of Canada is a lot like the US with the many different kinds of people living together. We live in harmony most of the time too.
What is the official multi-culturalism policy? Sounds like a law or some sort.
Sorry for ignoring you. I haven't had the time or the mental energy to compose a good reply. Later.
:wave:
____________________________________________
http://i1.tinypic.com/n5ngxw.jpg
It is my pure and virtuous heart that
gives me the strength of ten!
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