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simple conflict.....right?
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Thread: simple conflict.....right?

  1. #1
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    Smile simple conflict.....right?

    Im building a new system from scratch (components below).
    I am experiencing a resource conflict of the Memory usage
    type (not I/O Mem). My AGP graphics card insists on sharing
    a memory window with my "Standard PCI to PCI Bridge". There
    are no acceptable Windows "alternative standard settings".
    I can manualy alter this resource for either device (AGP or
    PCI to PCI Bridge). However my PC wont boot afterwards. I
    have to restore the "use automatic settings" switch.
    Windows advises me that I would have to adjust my device
    jumpers or utility after attempting a manual fix. I dont
    understand that exactly. Is this why they call it
    "Plug n Pray"?

    The only thing I can think of is a Microsoft article advising
    of Windows 95B having limited support of PCI to PCI bridge
    (something regarding Aperature size).
    However...My MoBo is old to the point of barely being an ATX.
    Why would ANY technology on this board have Windows 95B
    issues? AT boards have PCI devices...so why is this "bridge"
    unique to my MoBo? Or is this REALLY an issue of AGP devices!

    Thanks!

    MoBo: Shuttle AI61V12A w/latest BIOS, 2X AGP slot, No ISAs,
    AMD 751/756 chipset
    CPU: AMD Athlon 750 Slot A (no clock tweaks)
    RAM: 128MB PNY PC133...Backward Compatible
    Video:LeadTek WinFast GeForce2MX AGP
    HDD: Maxtor 20 gig
    CDROM:40X standard ATAPI

    Thats it!....very simple system....Thats why im puzzled?

    PS...The NT forum looks kinda slow...would someone consider goin over there and viewing my post?

    [This message has been edited by natb1 (edited September 10, 2001).]

  2. #2
    darkblu
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    Post

    1> Uninstall the Video driver or change to the default VGA driver. Do not reinstall the driver, even if prompted after re-boot. Just leave it as a standard VGA driver.
    2> Reinstall your system drivers i.e. the chipset drivers (intel, VIA or whatever motherboard you have). Make sure that they are properly installed after re-boot (check the Device manager).
    3> Install the USB drivers (found on the Win95/98 CD under 'Other' > 'USB') Make sure that they are properly installed after re-boot (check the Device manager).
    4> Now, re-install your Graphics driver.

    Or just install the USB drivers and then re-install your graphics driver.

    ------------------
    Pöwer is nöthing withöut cöntröl...

  3. #3
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    Smile

    Thanks for the help!

    Ill try that and report back.
    Im not sure what drivers are the "chipset"

    Drivers on this install disk.
    Its got "miniport drivers"/"IRQ drivers"/"AGP drivers"

    Im gonna quess "miniport drivers"

    Maby I should install all of them...then goto the Windows USB drivers....then the GeForce Drivers?

    If this does work...Why does it work?

    Whats with the "order" of installing?


  4. #4
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    Unhappy

    Well...Thanks anyway darkblu....No progress.

    I actually reformatted c:
    Installed Win95b again.
    Then i installed the MOBO software/drivers.
    Then installed USB support from Windows CD.
    Then i noticed that the conflict was still
    there....even with Standard VGA drivers.
    Not willing to give up..I installed GeForce
    drivers...still no progress.

    Heres a couple more symptoms i failed to mention...just in case someone else wants to take a stab at it.

    Imediately after installing the GeForce software/drives, Windows prompts a reboot, as soom as I hit "OK"...It Blue Screens.
    This happens every time. I suspected it was related to the conflict.

    In System Properties, Two devices listed under "OTHER DEVICES" have big Yellow ? icons. properties indicate that they are "operating propely" with no conflicts. They are:
    PCI bridge and PCI Universal Serial Buss.
    (not to be confused with the afore mentioned PCI to PCI bridge)

    There are NO obvious warning signs ( x, i, ? )in Sytem Propeties regarding my conflict problem.
    I actully stumbled across this while doing my routine review.

    My Video Accelerator Card requires and AGP 2.0 slot/port. I cant confirm that this MoBo has that...just that its supposedly 2X AGP.

    Im wondering if its this cheezy Spacewalker MoBo? or mayby lack of AGP support.

    If anyone else has a suggestion...Ill take it!

    This is an awful first time AMD experience!



    [This message has been edited by natb1 (edited September 10, 2001).]

  5. #5
    pakprotector
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    Post

    The AI61 mobo is a piece of used kitty litter!!! I've RMA'ed two of these boards out of TigerDirect SystemMax PC's in the last three months. They are very particular boards (especially with video and network cards). My suggestion, if possible, would be to use this board for skeet and find an ASUS K7V or Abit K7T. They both use the VIA KT133 chipset and are very user friendly. I know this sounds flippant but I rate this particular Shuttle board right below ARGHHH! (my name for PCCHIPS).
    Sorry about this being an awful first time AMD experience. There are some awfully good Slot A boards out there.
    Now that is off my chest by any chance is your Slot A 750 a classic or T-Bird? The reason I ask is though it's an approved AMD board for the "Slot-A" T-Bird it does have some even more quirks to it. Also the KT133 chipset boards do not support the Slot A T-Bird without modifications. ASUS does have the K7V-T for T-Birds but it's darn near impossible to find.


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    Peritissimos semper praevidere possumus, rudi autem periculosi sunt (Professionals are predictable, it is the amateurs who are dangerous)

  6. #6
    yoda knight
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    Not sure if if you checked this, but I had a similar prob once ;|.
    Have you enabled the IRQ for PCI VGA in your BIOS ?

    ------------------
    "Never trust a man who doesn't drink beer !"

  7. #7
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    Cool

    THanks for the additional replies.

    Forgive my long posts.

    Even If I dont get this thing going....I value the knowlege i get on Windrivers. Hopefully Ill answer a post or Two.

    In light of recent events in the USA, I have done NO further tinkering with my PC. I am about to get back on it though.

    I have heard good and bad things about my MoBo...Yes...its a Tiger Direct thing.
    When you say that its a "crappy" MoBo..
    does it have bad solder joints?..or just unthoughtful chipsets. As a PC building newbie..I figured that AMD chipsets would be the "BEST" chipset for AMD CPUs?

    The Box Does Say..."Thunderbird"

    Does anyone have a comment on my theory regarding Windows 95 and AGP support...and the PCI to PCI issue posted on microsofts support sight (dont know how to make link)? Microsoft said you could go into System Resources and "disable" bridges, but I dont see how. They say that the possible drawback of doing this is that devices behind these bridges wont work. I know that some people have this PCB with AGP GeForce video...and it works very good. The only difference is the OS. I cant confirm any example of 95b and AGP working on this PCB.

    IM still working on the Windows NT side (physically switched HDDs). I am also trying to get Windows 98. My originall intention was to have a "profesional side...NT" for my engineering and design...and a "fun side...95b" for all the popular games. Despite what ppl say about 95...Ive always been able to make it work stably. I didnt want to give up.

    Yoda....Im not exactly sure what u mean?
    I have "Resources Controlled by...Auto (ESCD)
    However...Your coment has given me some more ideas!...I just noticed a setting called "Init Display First" It Has two possible settings...PCIslot/AGP. The default is PCI...and Ive never messed with that yet!
    Since the OS allocates resouces based on BIOS coordination...maby I could kick around some settings in BIOS to see if Windows would kick around the resources too? Mayby I could remove some devices that dont conflict, in hopes resources get redistributed? Then Ill put in a regular PCI video card to see what happens. If a regular PCI card works...I still wont learn anything though...HeHe.

    Let me tinker again.
    Ill report back for the edification of others...That is if I dont get the Admin boot!....hehe

    Thanks!


    [This message has been edited by natb1 (edited September 13, 2001).]

  8. #8
    Darren Wilson
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    Post

    Ok, I was waiting for you to state that you were definatly using Windows 95.

    The Memory conflict is not a conflict at all and just Win95 identifying the AGP slot as a PCI slot. Obviously with Win95 being released PRIOR to AGP, support was not included into the Kernel files for AGP functions. This 'conflict' does not cause any major problems in operation although some software may decide that you are running a PCI card instead of an AGP card. It is nothing to worry about and is perfectly normal. Installing the latest chipset drivers and USB patch from MS does help a little but nothing to write home about.

    If you wish to rid yourself of the conflict then an upgrade to Win98/2k/ME/XP is in order. NT4 also does not support full AGP functions, but does not show this 'conflict'.

    But bottom line is that this affects everyone who uses AGP cards under win95 and nothing can be done about it, regardless of what you do with resource settings etc.

    ------------------
    FINALLY, Rocco HAS COME BACK to Win-Driverssssss......
    Let the Boobies hit the floor

    [This message has been edited by Darren Wilson (edited September 13, 2001).]

  9. #9
    Registered User orange's Avatar
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    I'd agree with Darren on this one, go for Win98se and i think your problems will disappear of their own accord. As well as Win95 being pre-AGP it was also pre-USB, although 95b attempted to redress the situation with a godawful patch that in my opinion, is extremely unstable. You should also alter the setting in the BIOS to Init AGP display first as you are running an AGP card, and AGP memory aperture size should really be set to 64MB, even for a 16 or a 32MB card. Lastly, my own experience with a Shuttle board was not great (flaky memory slots) and i also RMA'd it....if you get hassle with Win98SE then perhaps you should think of doing the same. Good Luck!


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    orange
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    orange

    Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning -+- Rich Cook

  10. #10
    pakprotector
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    natb1 the problems I've seen with the 2 boards I RMA'ed are centered on it's workmanship. Both boards were just faulty. I will give TigerDirect credit though both boards were swapped out within 4 days without a hitch. They were replaced with the same board and both machines are running fine (1 is a Slot A 1 Gig Classic Athlon the other a Classic 750, neither are T-Birds). The AMD 751/756 chipsets were the original Athlon chipsets. In my opinion for the Slot A "Classic" the Via KT133 chipset was much better. But since your Slot A is a T-Bird you definately made the right choice in choosing an AMD chipset board. Definately take DW and orange's advice and get your hands on Win98 or 98SE.


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    Peritissimos semper praevidere possumus, rudi autem periculosi sunt (Professionals are predictable, it is the amateurs who are dangerous)

  11. #11
    Darren Wilson
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    Post

    Believe me, that it doesn't matter what board, video card or tweaks you make, any board using an AGP card under any version of Windows 95 will show this 'conflict'.

    ------------------
    FINALLY, Rocco HAS COME BACK to Win-Driverssssss......
    Let the Boobies hit the floor

  12. #12
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    Post

    OK...thanks for the additional responses.

    Even though Im the ignorant party here, your comments seem logical to me. Im not sure that there "shouldnt be any problems". The only application ive installed is weirding out on me. Its the WinFox (comes w/video card)utility called "Memery Resource Status" (no surprise there). When i run it, I get "Performed illegal function" and it shuts down the app. I have no plans on using a USB divice. Im gonna start installing my games and see what happens. I may just have to get 98.

    Ive pretty much beat this topic to death.....I will report my findings just for the smELL of it. Win95 seems to be my problem.

    BTW...The mobos you RMAd'...were they dead?
    I had to "modify" the SQUARE shoulders off my cpu mounting clips to fit ROUND holes!
    If the corners were to "DIG INTO" the PCB...there is a good chance of shorting out the inner COPPER layers. This depend on clearance rules used when designing the PCB.


    Thanks For the input all!

  13. #13
    pakprotector
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    natb1: yes both board were completely dead. Both boards were less than 2 months old.

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    Who were the beta testers for Preparations A through G?

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