[RESOLVED] Do-it-yourself people

[Damned Angel]

One of our sales guys did the exact same thing on a machine he was building on the side for a friend. I just happened to be working the saturday that he brought it down to have a real tech take a look at it. he had put the mounting spacers on either side of the board and screwed the board down directly to the case in the middle forming a slight u with the board. I didn't think I would be able to salvage the board because when I was un screwing it to put proper spacers in the center of the board, you could hear the plastic crackling under the stress. Fortunatly for him the board worked perfectly fine once it was mounted and put together properly. We all had a great laugh that day, and reminded him that he is in sales, not service, for a reason.

[Danrak]

I've had people like that. They bought the motherboard screwed it into the case without any spacers, just flat onto the case and then couldn't get it to work. When they were told why it wasn't working they then argued with me how they did it correctly and I'm wrong and shouldn't be a tech. Those type of people I'm not real happy with.

[Nathan]

Hey guys all burning to do-it yourselfers. I have been a do-it guy for a little over 5 years and have never done any of the above thing metntioned.But I've been sodl PC's buy "qualified" personal that have IDE drive cables UPSIDE DOWN, floppy cables on wrong. SCSI ID's mis arranged and CD-ROM's with no power. Which is why i do it myself !!!

to agree with one gentleman WindowsME sucks I beta for MS and man it's buggy.

-Mr. Gates-

[RGK01]

If your buying PCs from wholesale places and think you are haveing it built by "qualified" techs, your wrong. They hire minimum wage off the streets to put them together. The wholesale places are selling to "qualified techs" who then redo the systems, just like a car dealership preps a new car. If your buying a custom built system from a local dealer, then your getting a qualified tech working on your system.

[shawnMt]

One thing remains true throughout this topic:

If you plan on buying it from us and taking it home to put it together and you blow it up - don't blame us.

Hell, I started as a do-it-yourselfer... most of us did. But the first (and only) video card I fried was my own (VESA) - I had just bought it from a local shop. I took it back, told the owner I blew it up, we got to talking, and he hired me...



[This message has been edited by shawnMt (edited March 31, 2000).]

[replier]

Oh yeah! I can relate to everyone's woes too. But it's also a matter of communication with these tech wannbes as well. The sales staff are responsible to make it clear to the customers about the warranties (what's covered and what's not, etc) return policies, etc. and they suggest we the techs do it for them for a small fee. We have had fewer arguements with customers this way. Yes, there are some occasional jerks but it's now where near as bad as it once was. Plus we reserve the right to sell our products to those people or not. We have regulars who are computer consultants and we are more than happy to sell to because they know what they are doing. If something is brought back, we will test it and determine if it is defective or self inflicted. If the person wants to get into a major arguement, then we show them the door. We have a sign that says rude behaviour will not be tolerated. Techs have the right not to take flak from a rude person. I'm glad I work here. But the main important thing is honest communication with the customer. Less hassle that way.

[Garfeild_Cat]

Hi all I see we are venting here!

The techi in me can't stay quiet any longer. I have seen the PROFESSIONAL A+, MSCE, UNIX techies make the same mistakes as the do it yourself "inDUHviduals". I have seen plain "inDUHviduals" ask "What is that thing for..." and pointing to the "cup holder" or "pencil box"-flopy drive.

Most of the problem is not having the correct data or being in too much of a rush.

I only do tech work on the side now (industrial repair is my main profession now ~ ~ better pay).

When I started I made my share (and then some) mistakes. However, I listened back then (and still do) and took responsiblity for my screw ups.

As I stated I only do a little tech help on the side now and I refer (almost) everyone to a reputable, qualified and, honest local store/tech.

So all of you remember those few that give you a hard time that there are many more that can really help your business grow.

------------------
DNRC- let the new world begin.

[ellingtond]

So, how many of you mom and pop tech shops sell white box parts? How many of your sales guys are at least A+. I hear a constant theme that customers don't get things explained correctly, but from what I have seen the guys up front are the least experienced in the store. In our area, everyone is understaffed as well. . .so you have 2 salesguys trying to handle an entire store, and a Do-it-yourselfer asking questions that he really doesn't understand the answers too and we wonder why the tech guys end up having to explain that the little red ribbon goes to the #1 pin.

I am not knocking do-it, I was one too, and still screw up when I am playing around. . .
I just still maintain that for the medium sized shop, there is no money in working with the general public, returns and warranty work kill ya. . . . locate your shop in the warehouse district away from walk in traffic and do most of your work on-site with businesses. . . preferrably the kind that would fire an employee if they stopped working and opened up their computer

I know I am overly simplistic. . .but do you want to educate the masses or do you want to make a living as a paid professional? How many saturday techs would pay you $250 because they can't connect to the internet?

If one of my clients can't get their e-mail, "I don't care what it costs, fix it!"

[High*Ping*Drifter]

We get a lot of cooked/damaged machines where I work...we make a good chunk of money from tech-wannabees.

One of my favorites was back around Christmas...kid talked his mommy into buying him a new 13.6GB Maxtor HD and he would do the install himself, save a lot of money that way. [LOL]

Comes back the next day, says he wants to return the HD, says it's DEFECTIVE, says he hooked it up just like the instructions said and it still didn't work, therefore it MUST be defective. I told him "No, you just didn't hook it up right." He gets all defensive and tells me that he's studying for the A+ exam...heh heh, okay kid. Managers give him a new HD, he leaves.

Two days later, tech boy is back, this time with his CPU. He admits that maybe he thought he knew more than he thought he did, and could we get his CPU working again?? Sure dude, for $60 an hour, we can troubleshoot your box. He doesn't like the sound of that, but he doesn't have much in the way of a choice, so he signs the paperwork and leaves.

Me & my boss Ray pop the flimsy tin-can case off and are AMAZED at the damage sphincter-boy has done...first, he apparently forced the connector cable onto his floppy drive, shearing off several pins. Okay, $35 for a new floppy, $35 for the floppy install. That's $70 right out of the starting gate.

Next, he played with the BIOS settings without knowing anything about them...none of the settings were correct, and he'd disabled all of the caching on his processor...add to that the fact that he'd changed some of the jumpers on his MB -- we had to look up the correct settings on the PC Chips (gag choke) website...we had to completely redo his HD's and CD-ROM, they were jumpered incorrectly, and do an op sys install, since he'd corrupted his HD.

Let's see, a HD install, that's $49.99, and an op sys install, that's $59.99 (corporate HQ sets those prices, BTW...), there's another $110, add the previous $70, call it $180, plus two hours of labor un-hoseing his box, for a grand total of $300, never mind the cost of the new HD in the first place!

Kicker of it all was that when he showed up to pick up the machine, his mom got SO pissed, she was literally beating his *** right there in the store! Security had to come and pull her off of him. His dad just stood there and smiled and smiled and smiled, and he thanked us profusely for fixing the computer, said junior would never touch it again, and we had his business for now on.


.High*Ping*Drifter.

"He say you brade runnah missah deckah..."

[lysergic]

$35 for a floppy and $35 to install it? and then another $230 to reinstall windows fresh? What a freaking rip off. Sure, the bone head screwed up, but what you people charged was just plain theft. No wonder you need security.

[High*Ping*Drifter]

Lysergic -- like I said, I work as a computer repair/upgrade tech at a major electronics retail chain in the Chicagoland region.

I do *NOT* set the prices...those ripoff prices are set by the greedheads at corporate HQ in another state altogether. I just do the tech work, and the damned paperwork -- in triplicate.

I often give people breaks on the work I do, assuming that I don't have an a$$h*le manager looking over my shoulder to make sure that I'm not "giving away services for free," something that has gotten me in hot water before.

If it's something that I can fix in ten minutes or less, I usually do it for free. For example, finding and loading an updated driver to correct a problem, or adjusting their dialup-networking settings, sometimes even a virus removal for free.

I hate where I'm working at right now, but it's paying the bills and putting food on the table while I look for a better job. I don't agree with their greedhead corporate policies, or their ripoff prices either. I hope to soon have a better-paying job where I don't have to charge insane prices.


.High*Ping*Drifter.

"Kill them all...kill all the brutes!"

[murphy1]

First, I just wanna respond to lysergic.
We are NOT in bussines to lose money. if someone is they are a fool, or stupid.

Second, i gotta say something here. I am journeyman automotive tech, as well as a certified a+ pc tech. I have been running my own shop after hours, and weekends for close to 8 years now. I have repaired and upgraded systems other "techs" told customers could't have anything done to them.

I went and got my a+, not because i needed it to get a job, and i passed with 98 and 99 percent. whoo hoo, big deal. the only reason i went and got it, was so that all the friggin' "i am a pc tech and you are not" guys would start to take me seriously. Just because a guy walks into a store, and wants to buy parts himself, does not mean he is an idiot.(although admittedly most are).

The worst thing that chaps my ***, is when i purchase...say a new cd-rom. I take it back to the shop, and install it, only to find it won't recognize any cd's, and i havn't even accessed the drive yet(these were not burnt cd's by the way). There is obviously something abnormal. so i take the defective part back, and the "tech" throws it into a machine and it does the same thing ...can you guess the response?????

yep, well, looks like you fried it alright, you are gonna have to buy another and let us install it.


or

Well thats normal with this model, you need too use the dos drivers for it to work right in a win95 machine....


Pardon me?? a brand new atapi 50x cd-rom? that hasn't even been accessed by the o.s. yet??? This is the part where i pull out my 400 dollar(canadian) useless A+ certificate and say...where's yours? I do know how to install
a simple cd-rom, and i do know the difference between faulty hardware, and good hardware.
Makes for alot of backtracking and appolagies
which wouldn't have been nessecary if they wouldn't have jumped to a conclusion in the first place.

I am on the front lines, every day, same as every other tech out there. but because i got where i am by being a "do-it-yourselfer"
I have gained respect for, and deal feverently and earnestly in the customers favor. This has proven a great customer satisfaction tool, and i now enjoy a wide customer base.

Don't missunderstand me, i know good techs are not like that. And before you start flaming, ..yes i have diy customers too, and yes they have screwed stuff up. And yes it makes me wonder why i bother somedays.

One last thing if i may...Is anyone else running into customers who have been told that they MUST have a pentium II or higher with 64 megs of ram etc etc etc, just to get on the net? I would really like to get ahold of the person(s) that is doing this, as it's a lie and misleads a customer. I deal with alot of low income families, and i build low end "net machines" for thier kids,
at a cost they can afford. most can't believe a 200 or 300 dollar computer can do what i tell them it can, because of the b.s. somebody keeps spreading.

Well i fell MUCH BETTER NOW. (grin)

Flame on boys.

[lysergic]

Murphy1, let me clear up my position. I to am a A+ certified tech, and I agree, big freakin deal. My comment was on the fact we are talking about a fresh reinstall of windows. 2 hours max. This is not brain surgury. It is loading a dos driver on to a hard drive, perhaps copying the cabs over, typing setup, following directions, and working on another machine while it installs. And this is worth aprox $125/hr(including the $35 floppy install in this since it had to be done anyway to reinstall)? I believe in getting a fair price from my customers, but I do not believe in gouging the uninformed.

[Danrak]

murphy1, I'm glad to see you know what you are doing. At the store I work at we have a lot of local people like you who run a computer business on the side. Some of the people like you know what they are doing, but we do have one or two people that don't. We also get a lot of people that have never worked on a computer before thinking they can do it. We also will test the hardware if a customer brings it back, if it don't work we will check for anything that may have made the warrenty void, burn marks, straches, etc.., if nothing is found we will warrenty.
The point a lot of people are making is people with NO experience are trying to do it themselves. Thats like me going to an auto parts store buying parts to rebuild my car engine and hoping that they guy behind the counter can tell me how to do it step by step. My personal belief is if you nothing about a subject and don't want to take the time to learn it then don't attempt to try and blame the person that tried to help me.

Danrak

[tecman]

I sympathize with all memebers here. Home users are the worst customers. You cannot justify billing the amount of hours that you put into their machine. This stuff takes time and is NEVER the same machine to machine. When you put 4 hours into a machine, what do you do? Charge them $200, when they were expecting $100.
When i do work for a home user, i give them a range. From the longest I think it could take, to that plus 2 hours. If that is agreeable to them, great. I will come in under budget over half the time. If it seems like too much, that is great too. I know i just saved myself alot of grief when i tried to collect my bill.
The bottom line: If it is gonna be a $200 bill at the end, then you recommend that they buy a new $600 computer, all nice and configured. If they still want the work done, and know that it might not be straight forward, great, I will give them what they ask for, and bill them for my time. If they carp at all at the estimate, i know i just saved myself $150 dollars in time I would never get back, and i thank them for their time.