the things that suck...

[skut]

right now im a hardware/general tech and i get to dip my fingers into decent networks now and then. everything i know today has come with a lot of hardwork and an undying interest to learn new things.
i was browsing through the want ads on a sunday recently looking the available computer jobs. some of this crap is unreal...
*5+ years HTML experience*

*..the ideal candidate will have a b.s. in computers, be msce(and or cne), 5 + years in UNIX, be proficient is vb and or c/C++. (or oracle, something like that)*
-i called one day about it just as a *joke*...starting pay was around 55K/a year.

personally id die to be able to meet most of those requirements. honestly though, where am i supposed to get these resources to get this "education?"

secondly, i might know UNIX inside and out (i wish i knew a smidgen of unix), but i cant even get a look if i dont meet the bare requirements.

which brings me to my point. its kind of hard to get some of these jobs with out experience. but then again where do you get the experience. cant pull it out your arse. and even if i knew unix (for whatever reason), it normally doesnt count if it wasnt professional experience.

any of you "older" techies hav any insights for the younger generation on gaining more experience in fields you have no experience in?

what about you younger guys, such as myself (im 22). any of you run into this? how do you cope with it and work around it?


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prompt $p$g [dos = elite]

[River19]

Profient=have heard of the technology before

5+ years of experience = have done it before

knows Oracle, SQL, C/C++, VB, and JAVA = Yeah right


Some companys want to hire just one guy to do ALL their computer stuff and they don't get it.

If I asked you this question how would you answer it?:

Would you want a surgeon to operate on your brain which has:

a) spent 5-7 years in medical school studying the ins and outs of the brain and done extensive research and has over 100 successful proceedures under his belt or

b) someone who has gone to medical school and studyed EVERYTHING about the human body, which only left him about a week to study the brain.

It is good to have high expectations for your employees, but some companies need to learn that quality experience and expertise are the way to go.

Me personally, I look at jobs the way I look at women and dating, the worst that can happen is they say "no".

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A ship in a harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for...

[pga]

I agree with River19.

I think the idiots in charge of recruiting do not understand that it is impossible to know it "all". I can confidentally say that the majority of us here know more about hardware, system building, and troubleshooting that Mr. Gates ever would. No one person can know "everything" there is to know about computers. It was different 20 years ago (at that time it was possible to know all). The idiots in charge of hiring techs today assume nothing has changed since they were 20 years old.

Point in case... in the computer field, everyone needs to specialize in a certain field in order to be proficient. The old "Jack of all Trades, Master of none" comes to mind.

But if you want the experience... heck you're only 22, job hop for a few years. Try to job hop to jobs that offer OJT and pay for classes and/or certification. i.e.: CompUSA (which sucks) does pay for A+, Ingram Micro (which sucks) pays for training/certification in things such as NT. Some ISP's may pay for Unix training/certification.

These jobs may be low paying, suck, etc... but in the end it's less expensive than paying for schooling, certifications, etc and you also get the experience you need at the same time.

If after all of this, a perspective employer is concerned about your "job hopping", you can look him boldly in the eye and say: "The reason I hopped jobs so often, was to gain experience in multiple fields while getting certified. The reason I did this was specifically to get a permanent long time position at a company such as yours".

[This message has been edited by pga (edited October 29, 2000).]

[ReBoot]

Here's the typical ad at our Canada Manpower office. $10-14/hour, but just look at the qualifications they ask for! http://jb2-ge.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/orders/e/10/4536537.html

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Who needs a life, I have Internet!
Jim & Sue's Free Files | Jim's Modems

[clandtech]

Besides if you do find such a tech "God", you had better triple that 55k.

[LORE]

I am only 22,(23 i nov) and I agree that it is hard to know where to start. I agree with all the above though. No one person can know it all, and any company looking for him will never find him. Job hopping is a good idea. The days of "company pride" are over. I work two jobs now, one as a network admin, and one as a little of every thing tech at a major retailer. They both offer paid for training and certs, thats why i am here. In the next year and a half i will be MCSE, CNE, to go along with my A+ and I am thinking about Sisco. Allthough, the highschool in my comunity is now teaching a 1 year class on cisco routers and at the end you can test for your cert. That is a trend i believe and that market will become flooded. The best thing to do is have a good hardware base, and pick what you like from there, look at 2 or 3 main areas you like and work tords that, thats what i am doing, and so far so good. Good Luck!

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We may be through with the past, but the past is not through with us.

[gren]

Recruiters aren't really expecting anyone to fufill all the crazy job requirements item for item, I don't think.

Recruiters aren't usually techincally savvy, so their idea of what a lot to ask is isn't what yours and I is.

In their mind, they might as well be saying: I want someone with 5+ years exp with Ford Mustangs. ASE certified, 5+ exp w/ Electronic Fuel Injection, etc. etc.

They generally unknowingly ask an IS manager what the position requires and the IS manager gives them a list. If they can find someone even CLOSE, they're happy. They aim high.

Personally, if I'm applying for a position for example, that requires 5+ years of Unix, expertise with Cisco NOS, Windows NT Server, VAX/VMS, VPN/RAS, etc, etc.

I tend to 'accentuate the positives.' If you have 0 experience with Unix, go set up a Linux server for practice. "Yes.. I have experience with Unix command line.. I've set up a few Linux servers and have familiarity with the Linux Kernel."

If you have 0 experience with Cisco, try taking an intro level Cisco course.

(Cisco exp is overrated, btw.. Most of the Administrators I've worked with aren't experts with Cisco Routers)

It's all relative, of course.. if I'm totally under qualified for a job, I don't even bother. If I think I can learn what I need to know on the job pretty quickly, and don't think I'll look too silly with my shortcomings, sure.. I'll throw my hat in and hope for the best.

[Draggar]

Originally posted by skut:
what about you younger guys, such as myself (im 22). any of you run into this? how do you cope with it and work around it?

I've found out, its not WHAT you know, its WHO you know. My first 'real' job (Retail Rep for HP) I got through my old rep back home, who was married to the district manager, and my last job, tech support, I got because someone my fiance works with is in teally good with one of the IT managers and the HR supervisor.

Also, if you can't fascinate them with facts, bedazzle them with bull****.



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Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?