Are we responsible for customer's backups? What if something is lost?

[AlienDyne]

A year ago, someone brought us a machine. She said he used this machine at her work and wanted it us to ugrade it. She is a attorney. The machine was an old 486.
A friend of hers, had suggested the parts and the brands.
We needed some time, because we couldn't find the motherboard. (I don't remember the brand). It was the last summer. After a week, we had the motherboard on our store, so we started the upgrade. Her HDD contained
lots of customer's cases, which shouldn't be erased.
Unfortunately, the HDD contained also lots of bad clusters! We tried to contact her using her phone at her work and her mobile one, unsuccessfully. As we were told to hurry and upgrade the machine as soon as possible, we decided to low level format her drive. It was not under warranty, cause it was too old.
We managed to gain some space and we finally marked the bad clusters, after an Fdisk and a Format. We installed Windows successully and we left her a message in her answering machine, saying that we were ready.
She took it after a couple of days and called us to confirm it. She speaked to me.
When I said that everything was lost and explained the whole situation she became furious: "This documents were my career", she said. "Some of them are 16 years old"!
I said that we couldn't do else, but she was mad. "Let me speak to your boss" she said.
"He's going to face the law! I'll press charges against you"!
The boss told her that we have no responsibility when a HDD is faulty and documents are lost, while a machine is in our store.
After a couple of days, the machine was ready having a new HDD. She let it pass. She couldn't do anything else.

What would you do under these circumstances?
What if it happens again in another HDD? Are we protected?

Thank you all for your time.




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When a good one meets some of the best...
I've died and gone to heaven!

[total1087]

Here is the jist of it:

The only way you are NOT responsible for data of any kind is when the customer signs an agreement that states so. If they don't sign a Terms & Conditions stating so, then it would have to be a verbal agreement. If nothing is said and the customer is unaware, he/she can file a lawsuit, and the shop is liable for the losing of data.

Heh, I've lost lots o' data, some just crap, and other extremely important data. But, as far as I see it, if the customer doesn't backup any of their data, if will be lost eventually because of component degradation, and they deserve it to be lost. Same goes for me. If I don't backup my data, I deserve to lose it. What good is your data if you don't take the time to back it up?

[lysergic]

While we are not responsible for the contents of their drive, low leveling the drive without their approval is just bad business. Before I will do something like that, I will get a hold of the customer and explain the situation, even if it has to sit on a shelf for two weeks and especially if it is a company's computer. Once I get a hold of them, I explain the situation in that there is already data loss and we can try and pull off as much data as possible if they would like (at an additional fee). But to just low level sounds like something Compaq would do.

Also we require that they sign a section of the work order stating we are not responsible for loss data for just such an occision.

[Damned Angel]

I agree...in this day and age with voice mail, and answering machines, you should have left her a message every couple of days and waited for her decision. Hey, what do you care if her machine is not finished because you cant get ahold of her. I have had systems sit under the bench for a month because the customer has gone on vacation and I have no way of getting ahold of them to find out if they want to pay for the work that needs to be done.
Im sure the customer would have been much less upset to learn before hand that there was a problem with her hard drive and be given an option to take her system back "as is" to backup whatever info she can before having the hard drive replaced.

[AlienDyne]

First of all, I never said it wasn't our fault. I admit that we acted very stupid when we tracked the bad clusters, although we tried to contact her.
So, as you understand, I personaly fully agree with you. That decision though, wasn't mine. I wasn't the Tech Dept Manager a year ago but I still admit our stupid action.
Anyway, that's not a big deal, cause it passed somehow.

The question is: Are we protected by the Law if we delete accidentaly or not customer's documents? I use to tell every customer about this situation, but never force him to sign any form. Is this enough?

Thank you for your replies and your advice.

[total1087]

Um, to answer your new question, no we are not protected by law IF they did not sign a waiver stating you/we aren't responsible if something DOES happen.

If something DOES happen, and they didn't sign that waiver, no law will be able to protect you even if it was an accident.

Is this what you were expecting?

[Krandia]

When Customers come into the shop with there machines ( Alot of the promblems is software or user promblems) I tell them that I will do what I can.. and only in impossable situations I will format. I also have a sign posted at the shop saying that we will do everything possable to get there computer running correctly but that its the customers responablity to backup there Data. I wont format a harddrive unless its the last option I have..But you got to do what you got to do.. I dont think the law can hold us liable for loss of data.. But you never know.

Oh Here is a Good quiestion...How many techs do back up there Data...Now Now Tell the truth!!! As for me I back up in dos one file at a time after it crashes.. think I learned my lesson... Nope!!!

[This message has been edited by Krandia (edited August 11, 1999).]

[houseisland]

What about when you can't back the data up (at least not without going on an extensive fishing trip), even if you're willing, because there are data files in every imaginable place on the hard drive, root directory, system folders, program folders, etc - every place except a central data directory?

[rusabus]

At my shop, I do sales and tech work. I am kind of a jack of all computer shop trades, master of only the technical part. There have been many days that I have had to close the store. The only thing there I ever back up is Quick Books. Now that the backup takes two floppy disks, I rarely ever do it. I have been bitten in the butt before. (my Father's house plans -- He drafted them himself, and the floppy they were backed up on went bad. We saved most of it, though.) I have always felt that I would catch a major problem before I had serious data loss. I do make it a practice to save into multiple folders, and put more than one copy of a file on a diskette if it will fit. Full system backup? What's that?

[AlienDyne]

I've learned my lesson a long time ago, before starting a tech job. I've lost some of my documents back in 1993, because of a stupid virus. These documents were my study project about Assembly language and Microproccessors. I managed to rewrite my study within 2 days. Since then, I use to backup my documents every two or three days.

One question comes to mind: Is this so difficult for a customer to understand, that he has to do the same thing? Everyone askes me if it's safe to keep his documents in his HDD. I advice each and everyone, to backup his data. It's not safe! Is this so difficult to understand?

The worst thing is, when you ask them what they want to keep before the format. "I don't know". They say. "What do you suggest? Backup whatever you think is usable."
On that case I become mad, and most of the times I don't backup all of the stuff. They deserve it!

Another stupid demand is to backup a program and restore it after format. Can you imagine backing up MS-OFFICE or COREL? It makes you laugh.

As a conclusion, I fully agree with you. We are not protected, without making them sign a form. I've spent lots of hours backing up customer's data and lots of hours are yet to come...


Thank a lot for your interest.



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When a good one meets some of the best...
I've died and gone to heaven!

[oldman]

when we get a business computer in and will be doing anything that could loss the data we copy their drive to another one and then do the job. we then store it for a month and then reuse it, using a program to clone a drive is not hard or time consuming. if we do lose data it ultimatly is the customers problem if they do not have a current backup.

[Krandia]

I have notice a change in a customers Tune when I tell them Yeah I can back up your data. it takes time and I do charge $55.00 an Hour.. You be suprise how many of them say.. well it isnt all that important go ahead and Just Format!!!

I guess when the Buc talks they all Duc!!

[TangleWeb]

OldMan has a great Idea!!!!

Especially in cases requiring data risking procedures, such as upgrading the operating system, or most especially, formatting the hard drive, copying the entire drive to another drive kept on hand, jumpered as a slave, specifically for this purpose is a great idea! Keeping it for a month would be a problem for me though due to cash flow. I would have 6-10 drives on a shelf! I am going to do it on a case by case basis though. Another thing I have done is purchase an external Zip drive. I run "Host" on the clients machine, just to get basic functionality, then copy the obvious stuff, documents in the "My Docs" folder, root dir., etc. One of the most important issues for my residential clients is their E-mail and address book data from their E-mail client. I have yet to figure what files to save for Juno. I know what files to save for AOL & Netscape. I also need to look into what files to save to keep preferences and data in the MS browser and mail apps. It compounds the problem if you do a reformat and install a more current version of the browser or E-mail client and the copied files don't work in the new version!

Another thought for your own use, or for a client is the concept of a second removable hard drive. Prices on drives have fallen dramatically, a 6.4 GB can be had for less than $100 and a removable drive kit for an IDE drive is $45 from ComputerGate and others. Just copy the whole darn drive to the back-up drive regularly!

Also, I think it would be a good idea for those of us that use standardized service worksheets, signed by the customer to share some of the phraseology used in them to protect from civil liability with regards to data loss and other issues. I am not currently using a pre-printed service form and would like to develope one that clears up any potential misunderstandings between myself and the client.

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Dave

[oldman]

thank you tangleweb

your post is appreciated we do have as many as 10drives in "storage" mostly used from other upgrades, but now i have stared using a cd burner and we have also started to have customers sign a waiver now to let them know that it is their problem if the data is lost.

[ReBoot]

I have a form that customers must sign (mostly because they are notorious liars) that I am not responsible for lost data. That said, I just burn a mirror image of their HD onto CD (a bootable one), mark it with their name, system type, HD specs, etc, and throw it on a shelf. I know I can't always backup a whole HD onto CD, but I can get most of the important stuff. It's saved me many hours of frustration with stupid people.

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