Letter of Complaint to M$
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Thread: Letter of Complaint to M$

  1. #1
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    Post Letter of Complaint to M$

    ladies and gents, I just sent this email to Microsoft. I'll let you know if I get a reply.
    ******************

    Dear Micro$oft,

    I have just taken (and failed) my 70-216 Network Infrastructure exam. That's fair enough, I thought I knew the subject and obviously didn't, so I will go and do some more studying. I haven't got a problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is the fact that no result was given other than a rather peremptory "You did not pass."

    How the hell are we supposed to learn from failure if we don't know how far away from that elusive goal we were?

    In days gone by, at the end of the exam, the result would be broken down into sections, and a score for each section would be given. This was immensely helpful, as it let you know your area of weakness(es) and let you plan a new study regimen to compensate. Then, in your infinite wisdom, you decided to do away with that, and just give the result.

    Not content with that little bit of unhelpfullness, you have now decided not even to tell us what mark we got.

    What's next - not telling us if we've passed individual exams, and only a pass/fail on the entire MCSE????????

    Are Microsoft deliberatley trying to alienate all potential MCSEs?

    I'm seriously rethinking my position on wanting to continue with the MCSE - having spoken to several large city-based consulting firms, they just laugh when you tell them you are studying for an MCSE - they consider it to not be 'hardcore' enough in the words of one.

    Hang on, I've just had a thought - maybe this is a way to generate more revenue by forcing people to sit more exams - tell me if I'm wrong.

    Having talked to colleagues, we have all come to the conclusion that the exams are ridiculously intricate - they try and trip you up at every step, and the questions are couched in such overly-complicated prose that it takes the majority of the time allowed just to understand what's being asked. In a real life situation, you DON'T HAVE TO MEMORISE WHAT EVERY OPTION IS ON A MENU. You go to a menu, click on it, and go 'ah yes - that's the one' - you use visual aids to prompt responses. Likewise, when using command line programs - have microsoft never heard of the /? switch which gives you the syntax?

    It would be nicer to see a two-track setup to the MCSE - a purely theoretical setup which covers concepts and ideas, and a purely practical track which uses simulations that allow for people to occasionaly go to the wrong menu if it's a mistake, then correct yourself, go to the correct menu, choose your function, then execute it. That is what happens in REAL LIFE.

    All my colleagues - who are either full MCSE, part qualified MCSE or just have 15-odd years of experience have read this mail and agree with it. I'm sure others will as well.

    I await your enlightened response with bated breath.

    Sincerely,

    Robert Spencer (MCP)
    Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #2
    Registered User silencio's Avatar
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    Well, it's designed so that you have to know everything in case you get a question on it. It's designed to produce better engineers instead of paper flunkies. Considering the availability of test answers that used to be on the net I think it's a good idea. MS was turning out flunkies left and right who expected to start at $40K/year but only knew how to answer questions on a test. They no real skills. I've seen lots of them.

    I know you studied hard. But, go back and study some more. After you pass you'll appreciate it that much more.

    BTW, the latest MCPMag Communiiqe says MS is reconsidering the pass/fail policy. If they do, I see it happening until another major OS upgrade and they'll revert back to it.
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    Comments noted - and I do agree with you - I have about 5 years or so real experience behind me, and did a few of the NT4 exams as well. As I said, I don't have a problem with failing - I passed pro and server first time without using the braindumps - I used res kit, exam cram and transcenders as well as cramsession, it's their pass/fail policy which is annoying.

    I've had a standard reply as follows: - if I get any more, I'll post it on here.
    ******************************

    Hello Robert,


    Thank you for contacting us at Microsoft.com regarding your Exam Results concern.


    We have forwarded your e-mail to the appropriate Microsoft group for review and response. Your comments are very important to us.


    By taking the time to write, you are helping us provide the best possible products and services. Thanks again!


    Sincerely,

    Lani
    Microsoft.com Customer Support
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    Registered User silencio's Avatar
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    LOL! I got a reply back one time. The problem was that I didn'r remember writting the complaint. I had wrote it the night before when I was extremely drunk. The reply was quite nice but I think my complaint said something about them being being so and so's and next time I was going with Linux.
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    hehe - I've done a couple of those - mainly to recruitment agencies who spam me with insultingly low offers - threatening to report them to their isp, manager, and the grc.com anti-spamming campaign

    I wasn't going to be deliberatly offensive, ie. not swearing, as I sent the mail from work!!
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    reply received from microsoft:

    Hello Robert,

    This is in response to your e-mail regarding exam score reports.

    Microsoft has changed the format of the exam result report candidates receive after taking a MCP exam. As part of the company's effort to protect the integrity of Microsoft certifications for MCPs and their employers, Microsoft has eliminated numerical score information from exam result reports. Exam result reports based on new exams released since December 2001 now indicate only pass or fail status. Candidates do not receive feedback on each exam section, and candidates no longer receive an overall numerical score. The result report format for the majority of exams released before December 2001 will undergo a transition to the new format during 2002.

    Microsoft is aware that candidates appreciated receiving a numerical score as part of their report. However, there was increasing evidence that some candidates were misusing this information to represent their relative success on the exams. Microsoft certification exams are designed to identify candidates who are able to perform a specific job function; they are not designed to differentiate among candidates who demonstrate the appropriate skill level-a higher-scoring candidate is not necessarily better able to perform the associated job function than a lower-scoring candidate who also passed the exam. In addition, Microsoft replaces exam items regularly to minimize item exposure and protect exam security; therefore, comparing numerical scores from different versions of the same exam is inappropriate and not meaningful.

    To understand customer needs, MCP program staff met with a group of MCPs to hear their views on various potential result report formats. Providing numerical scores was not presented as an option. Among the possibilities considered were graphical displays that would provide some relative feedback about performance without providing a numerical score. The group overwhelmingly preferred a simple 'pass' or 'fail' on their result reports rather than a graphic display.

    Customers have told us that they would like to have feedback such as numerical scores to help them assess areas for improvement. Microsoft certification exams are designed to validate a candidate's ability to perform a specific job function or set of tasks in the real world. They are neither designed nor intended to provide feedback on areas for potential improvement or to distinguish among individuals capable of performing the relevant job function or set of tasks. To obtain diagnostic feedback, we recommend that candidates take advantage of MCP practice tests from approved providers. Learn more about taking these tests on the MCP Practice Tests page <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcpexams/prepare/practicetests.asp" target="_blank">http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcpexams/prepare/practicetests.asp</a>

    If there is anything else we can do for you, please let us know. Thank you for contacting Microsoft.

    Peter S
    [email protected]
    <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/traincert" target="_blank">http://www.microsoft.com/traincert</a>
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    Personally I much prefer to have the score shown. You know exactly where you went wrong and how close you came to passing / failing. I cannot believe for 1 minute that a group of MCP's would go along with a pass / fail remark. Not one single person I have spoken to would prefer that. I passed the network infrastructure by the skin of my teeth. I took it last year so got a score. I now know that I almost failed, showing that I need to know more on the subject. If I had just received a "pass", then I would possibly be overconfident in my own abilities, for all I know it could have been 100%!
    Microsoft are obviously doing this to stop people writing the cheat sheets; just like Troytec did. They have a monopoly and know it. There is nothing we can do exept stop taking the exams, but that's just not going to happen.
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    [quote]quoted from MS reply letter
    <strong>Microsoft certification exams are designed to identify candidates who are able to perform a specific job function; they are not designed to differentiate among candidates who demonstrate the appropriate skill level-a higher-scoring candidate is not necessarily better able to perform the associated job function than a lower-scoring candidate who also passed the exam. </strong><hr></blockquote>

    What a load of crap! Say Two people apply for a job. Both have MCP certification. (I'm not familiar with how the MCP is divided up, so I'll just used general hardware software and networking classifications just to demonstrate my point.) Guy one did real well on the software side and well enough on hardware and networking to pass. Guy 2 kicked butt on all 3 sections but inparticular on the networking section. The job is a job that will emphasize working with the network. As an employer wouldn't you want to know which one of the two did better on the sections of the certification test that apply specifically to the job opening???

    Microsoft is just trying to generate more revenue by having people re-take the test more and selling more study materials.

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    Just to be a devils advocate, I can see what they are saying to an extent. They feel that to hold their certification shows that you know all the facets of Microsoft Engineering. If you pass all the tests, irregardless of by one point or by a thousand, you showed yourself to be competent in the material.

    In some ways I agree, does it make one person a better tech if they got 20 more points than me when I got my A+? Hell no!!! Same when I take these tests, chances are you will have different questions and were pushed harder on different topics. Plus, some people don't do well on tests, while others can ace any test.
    People complained about all the paper certs, and from what I have heard, MS has changed the tests and made them harder. If you don't pass, restudy, come back more confident and make it smell what you are cookin. Yeah, the price sucks to have to retake, but if you want to make the cert mean something again you have to make some consessions. To do that, you can't get pissed when you don't pass and they don't help you pass the next one by telling you one little section you sucked on. To pass the test you must know it all, if you have failed one section then you did not show that you were worthy of holding a certification at that time.

    I don't intend on being disrespectful at all when I say this, but as someone who earned a paper certification, I think I do have some say. I got my CNE, after failing the first test, I learned how to take their tests. I only failed one other, knowing that I failed by 5 points, I turned around retook it 20 minutes later and passed. Of course, now that I have several years in the field, earned my A+ through knowledge and experience, I am almost ashamed to list the CNE.

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    I think that there are several valid points to both side of the arguament - and that M$ should maybe adopt a middle ground - if you pass, then they should just give a pass, but if you fail, then they should gave you at least a range in which your score came - ie "you were within 5% of a pass"

    Anyway, I'm sure they will take the path that makes them the most money.

    And I would really, really like to meet this 'group' of MCPs (M$ employees by any chance?) in a locked room with a baseball bat...
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cleetus:
    <strong>I don't intend on being disrespectful at all when I say this, but as someone who earned a paper certification, I think I do have some say. I got my CNE, after failing the first test, I learned how to take their tests. I only failed one other, knowing that I failed by 5 points, I turned around retook it 20 minutes later and passed. Of course, now that I have several years in the field, earned my A+ through knowledge and experience, I am almost ashamed to list the CNE.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel the same way about my MCSE 4.0. I'm almost ashamed of listing it on my resume because I work for a Novell ran company and all of my knowledge went up in smoke because I rarely use these aquired skills.
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    I got this month's issue of MCPMAG the day after reading this thread and found this article on page 14.
    "Microsoft Considers Change on Pass/Fail Policy "
    Check it out here:
    <a href="http://mcpmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=477" target="_blank">http://mcpmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=477</a>

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    It would be frustrating to not know how close you came to actually passing. I think the more important thing here is to pass the stupid thing so you can get it out of the way. The key to passing the exams consistently for me was to get a good handle on how the different networking components work together. Once you get a good handle on basic networking and are really clear on the purpose of each service the questions can't confuse you. Okay brain dump sites are still important, but when you get to the test you are on your own and this is the only thing that gets me through it.

    BTW I have had MCPs ask what my score on particular tests were, but never had any potential employer ask me that question.

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    I think that it is a two edged sword myself. On one side, yes I do like the fact that I could see my score and know how well MS says I know my stuff.

    On the other side, I think if it helps exam integrity, then go for it. I on going on my fifth year administering NT 4 workstations, servers, and domains. I feel I am damn good at it, and am MCP in NT 4. However you get people that say that you are a paper cert cause they are used to seeing it. I can get 99% of the things NT 4 exams covered to work (they always have that little scenerio that you would only have rights to do if you managed 90,000 computers and were the CEO of MS). I hate being called a paper cert and have challenged it many times. If I get certified in 2000/XP and the exams are harder and made to hold integrity again, then so be it. I'll just build a test lab and make it work.
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Trailmix:
    <strong>It would be frustrating to not know how close you came to actually passing. I think the more important thing here is to pass the stupid thing so you can get it out of the way. The key to passing the exams consistently for me was to get a good handle on how the different networking components work together. Once you get a good handle on basic networking and are really clear on the purpose of each service the questions can't confuse you. Okay brain dump sites are still important, but when you get to the test you are on your own and this is the only thing that gets me through it.

    BTW I have had MCPs ask what my score on particular tests were, but never had any potential employer ask me that question.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree about braindumps. I've seen people put too much faith into them and end up failing. I have never and will never use a brain dump. I personally only take a transcender 1 or 2 times just to test my knowledge on a particular subject rather than memorize the questions/answers. So far I have taken 5 MS exams. I have 1 core(net infrastructure) and an elective. Haven't failed one yet.

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