Could be my last words... we shall see...

**Wayward Clam** · June 21st, 2002, 04:30 PM

An open letter to Scott, the Mods, my friends, and the other users here at Windrivers.

Scott: I asked you very politely both publicly and privately for a comment on Curt Sowulo; I have not been one of the pathetic wannabe witch hunters here. And I know you read my PM because it said “Read by Recipient”. You declined to answer. That is definitely within your rights--it’s your site. You can be whatever kind of head honcho you want to be.

The Mods: Seems pretty obvious to me what kind of head honcho Scott wants to be. It’s your prerogative, of course, if you want to keep volunteering to help him make money. I have great respect for most of you, and hope nothing similar happens in your cases.

My friends: I don’t want to lose contact with you. So if I remain unbanned here, I will show up now and then to stay in touch. If not, feel free to email me; the address in my profile and if that goes you can ask most people who know me for it.

Everybody else: I will miss the old Windrivers. Oh, don’t get me wrong--I don’t plan to stop coming here completely. Unless they throw me out. It is Scott’s site, he can certainly do that if he feels like it. But that’s exactly the issue: it IS Scott’s site. It’s not your site, or my site, or the Mods’ site. And Scott’s site seems to be about helping Scott make money. Which is fine for Scott. Hey, if I had a site, I would want to make money off it too! But I don’t know Scott, and he doesn’t seem concerned with doing me or my friends any favours, so I don’t feel like helping him either. I won’t help people other than friends any more with tech questions. I am no longer concerned about trying to entertain anyone here (and generate hits in the process.) And I don’t see any reason why I should be civil to the various morons who like to argue around here anymore. I quite simply have no more reason to give a damn how this site does.

If anyone wants to flame me for this post, feel free. It’s been a while since I had the freedom to tell an idiot exactly what I thought of him.

**NeuromancerIV** · June 21st, 2002, 04:38 PM

Gods above below and in the middle, this is turning into a damn soap opera.

I will miss Curt, his tech experience is already missed, and I could always count on his posts to let me see things from another perspective wether i agreed or not.
But I'm not gonna lose sleep over him leaving. No, dear Clammy, I'm not gonna flame you, I know feelings are runing high on this topic, buts whats it going to change? 2 things, jack and **** , and if this verbal masturbation makes you feel better, so be it.
But feeling were also running high when a number of prominent members left too. They are still missed, but life goes on, you make choice to stay or go, the mods make a choice to stay or go. And like anything in life there will be good moments and bad moments, rude and polite people. Thats life. And thats all I have to say.

**Draggar** · June 21st, 2002, 04:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NeuromancerIV:
No, dear Clammy, I'm not gonna flame you, I know feelings are runing high on this topic, buts whats it going to change? 2 things, jack and **** , and if this verbal masturbation makes you feel better, so be it.<hr /></blockquote>True, one person leaving won't change much, but what if a lot of the high contributors leave?

Imagine if:
Sowulo (already gone)
Sub Zero
MacGuyver
NooNoo
Feritt
Tazdrummer
DonJ
Octavian
adept
Major Kong
DocPC
Ilovetheusers
Matridom

all left at once? There would be a huge gap in the support here, thus cutting out the main reaosn why this site is up.

What if someone went to the chatroom and noone was there, or the people who were there couldn't help, do you think they'd come back, let alone pay for the resources here? Most likley not.

Sure, I'm going back to its all about the money, but Internet.com hired Scott to make this site generate revenue. Why else would a large corperation put it up? Most of them don't care about the general populous enough to give free advice to non-paying customers.

Sure, if all the top contributos left, there would be gaps, they would be filled up, but it would take a while. Do you think many people here have the knowledge that NooNoo, Feritt, Macguyver, BurnFest, all have? I don't, and it would take a long time to get up that far.

This site relies on the contributors, peope like us who supply resolutions to tech issues. We help people out, and then they turn around, and have a better chance of becoming a subscriber to the site.

Sure, this site will go on without Sowulo. It will be fine without Clam (no offence). Scott most likley won't shed a tear about people leaving, but we're the ones who make this site what it is, Scott and Internet.com just supply the webspace, the UBB software, and the research to keep as much up to date as possible.

Scott had a great site. It hasn't changed much, just different names come and go. Imagine what it would be like if none of the good and consistent contributors wern't here anymore.

**MacGyver** · June 21st, 2002, 04:56 PM

I am here to help people, no other reason whatsoever, I stay out of the politics. Don't get swallowed up and lose sight of what is important.

**DiR[ëctory]** · June 21st, 2002, 05:01 PM

I don't want to lose any more of WD's members.

It is a shame to see people go...

**Draggar** · June 21st, 2002, 05:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MacGyver:
I am here to help people, no other reason whatsoever, I stay out of the politics. Don't get swallowed up and lose sight of what is important.<hr /></blockquote>Probably the best opinion to have.

I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, just wnted to make a point. (You do a great job here, MacGyver, keep up the good work!)

**NeuromancerIV** · June 21st, 2002, 05:16 PM

Draggar, I appreciate your position, but again, this is a free tech board, there are many others, albiet imho not as good, and with a higher signal/noise ratio. One can come and go as they please. But this site is not about the individual members, its about the community. And like any community, it is noisy, frenetic, and messy and sometimes painful.

True, we may make this sites forum content, but Scott made this site FOR US, lets not lose sight *heh* of that. Its simple arrogance to assume that if all the regulars went off, the place would die.

There would indeed be a vacuum, but I was a lurker long before I registered, and Windrivers has gone through dry periods before. Good folks come and go, we miss them and wish them well, but thats life, and inevitabily others will come to fill thier shoes, if not their place.

I do agree with Mac about the politics, I'm not gonna touch that area, but I AM going to try to step up my efforts to help out more in other forums, when I can. Its my hope that we all could try to do a bit more, make this place better. Windrivers is not just built on the shoulders of a few members, its the community as a whole that makes the board a place I hang out to escape the drudgery of a long day and the flame wars on other boards..
If I sound a bit melodramtic, understand the coke machine here has been out of MD Code Red for 2 DAYS!! AHH!!!

**techguy13** · June 21st, 2002, 05:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Draggar De'Vir:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MacGyver:
I am here to help people, no other reason whatsoever, I stay out of the politics. Don't get swallowed up and lose sight of what is important.<hr /></blockquote>Probably the best opinion to have.

I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, just wnted to make a point. (You do a great job here, MacGyver, keep up the good work!)<hr /></blockquote>I second that opinion. MacGyver is one of the most helpful members on WD

. Thanx again for the help you have given to everyone here Mac. I have learned many technical tips reading your responses to others and mine queries on WD.

**Stalemate** · June 21st, 2002, 05:45 PM

Opinions are just that - impressions based on perspective. Everybody has them.

So far I think I've managed to keep out of forum politics with some success while still making my own opinions known.

What is important to me is the personal relationships I've built up here. Some close, others less so, but all important.

I will miss members who have left and those who are leaving/will leave. Whether or not I get along with them is secondary. I consider WinDrivers to be like a family. You can't choose your siblings IRL either.

In the end, in doesn't matter who leaves or stays. WinDrivers will keep going and other knowledgable members will join while some leave. No one is irreplaceable, but everyone is unique.

As for me, I like to keep other priorities than just the 'net. So I'm off to have supper with my family now.

My .02$ CAN

**ilovetheusers** · June 21st, 2002, 06:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by a d e p t:
Opinions are just that - impressions based on perspective. Everybody has them.

So far I think I've managed to keep out of forum politics with some success while still making my own opinions known.

What is important to me is the personal relationships I've built up here. Some close, others less so, but all important.

I will miss members who have left and those who are leaving/will leave. Whether or not I get along with them is secondary. I consider WinDrivers to be like a family. You can't choose your siblings IRL either.

In the end, in doesn't matter who leaves or stays. WinDrivers will keep going and other knowledgable members will join while some leave. No one is irreplaceable, but everyone is unique.

As for me, I like to keep other priorities than just the 'net. So I'm off to have supper with my family now.

My .02$ CAN<hr /></blockquote>I'm of a similar opinion. Most of the folks who would leave are not major contributors to the tech areas. We do, however, add to the # of clicks this site gets, but I don't imagine that it's very much when compared to the rest of the site. I personally don't imagine that any of us leaving will make any large impact at all. Still, I will most likely be curtailing my posts to the tech areas and will only post a little bit in the lounge.

I myself am leaving right now to see a girl. All part of my going outside plan.

**Matridom** · June 21st, 2002, 06:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Draggar De'Vir:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NeuromancerIV:
No, dear Clammy, I'm not gonna flame you, I know feelings are runing high on this topic, buts whats it going to change? 2 things, jack and **** , and if this verbal masturbation makes you feel better, so be it.<hr /></blockquote>True, one person leaving won't change much, but what if a lot of the high contributors leave?

Imagine if:
Sowulo (already gone)
Sub Zero
MacGuyver
NooNoo
Feritt
Tazdrummer
DonJ
Octavian
adept
Major Kong
DocPC
Ilovetheusers
Matridom

all left at once? There would be a huge gap in the support here, thus cutting out the main reaosn why this site is up.

What if someone went to the chatroom and noone was there, or the people who were there couldn't help, do you think they'd come back, let alone pay for the resources here? Most likley not.

Sure, I'm going back to its all about the money, but Internet.com hired Scott to make this site generate revenue. Why else would a large corperation put it up? Most of them don't care about the general populous enough to give free advice to non-paying customers.

Sure, if all the top contributos left, there would be gaps, they would be filled up, but it would take a while. Do you think many people here have the knowledge that NooNoo, Feritt, Macguyver, BurnFest, all have? I don't, and it would take a long time to get up that far.

This site relies on the contributors, peope like us who supply resolutions to tech issues. We help people out, and then they turn around, and have a better chance of becoming a subscriber to the site.

Sure, this site will go on without Sowulo. It will be fine without Clam (no offence). Scott most likley won't shed a tear about people leaving, but we're the ones who make this site what it is, Scott and Internet.com just supply the webspace, the UBB software, and the research to keep as much up to date as possible.

Scott had a great site. It hasn't changed much, just different names come and go. Imagine what it would be like if none of the good and consistent contributors wern't here anymore.<hr /></blockquote>I just have a few comments on this. Now i'm by no means partial, I've goten dragged in to the politics before.

There was a list compiled a week or two ago of people who had 500+ votes (steam room access) and that either no longer post or post infrequently. That list had 42 names on it. Now some of those people are no longer with us, some only post infrequently at best, and other have returned in there true glory. Some of those people left due to politics, some have lost interest and other have been forced to leave for a period of time due to a personal life. These forums have not been overly affected by it, the problems still get solved, people still post and live their lives.

To a certain degree we all help generate a revenue, but i think the overall impact to the site, the forums play a smaller role, and the loss of people may have an effect on the revenue, but not a large one. If we look at the comtributers that we've lost, we only think of the few people ith high post counts. what we forget is that there are a LOT of people who come in for short visits, visit infrequently and people comming who bring much experience, those people do not have the post count to prove it, but who cares? they can still help.

We think of a history has a string of rulers, we forget that the people make the history, all the users here make the history of this forum The mods and Scott are more like our figure heads and generals, they lead us....

Ok i've gone off on a tangeant, what i'm saying is, that the forums will live on, no matter who leaves. period

Now as stated many many times, this is Scotts site, he does with it has he pleases. I have no quarels with that.

What we need to do is move on.

**Wayward Clam** · June 21st, 2002, 07:16 PM

You move on. I am happy where I am.

**Matt_29** · June 21st, 2002, 07:18 PM

ohh come on clam you cant leave that avatar was hard work .. no serious .. keep in touch man .. i know what i say wont matter but you know where to find me and drop me a hello once in a while some of us will miss you

**ChipCreep** · June 21st, 2002, 09:38 PM

Well, I sure enjoy this forum, and plan to continue to posting whatever inanities you can tolerate.

Some good sounding points have been made that give me a glimpse of history and connection to this site some of the longtime members have developed. Community of most any kind is nice, isn't it?

Get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow morning, after application of the hangover remedy of your choice, maybe it will look better.

**Cygnus** · June 21st, 2002, 10:10 PM

I am here to help people, no other reason whatsoever, I stay out of the politics. Don't get swallowed up and lose sight of what is important.

I agree with this more than anything else I have seen posted here. I have been away for a while and dont really know whats goin on here but this statement holds true regarless.

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