Pledge Declared Unconstitutional

**silencio** · June 26th, 2002, 04:53 PM

WooHoo!!!

**korpse** · June 26th, 2002, 05:06 PM

I dunno...I think people are way too sensitive nowadays.
I do, however, agree with the separation of church and state. If it wasn' for that we would be no better than a country that follows islamic law...

**ilovetheusers** · June 26th, 2002, 09:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geeksRus:
i'll always pity atheists i guess...with nothing to believe in they have to go after any little thing they can find. i feel sorry for them.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I know that was directed at me so let me retort. Now, don’t take offence to any of this and I’m trying hard to keep this civil. If anything I say offends you, I apologize in advance.

I need not nor do I seek your pity. I immediately know by your words what religion you most likely are as I have heard this over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over…

I would have you know that quite honestly my life is better than just about most of the folks I know. I neither need nor want your or any other deity. I understand that you either want or need to believe in something be it God, Allah or Vishnu and I fully support that right just as much as I would ask you to respect my right not to believe.

**geeksRus** · June 26th, 2002, 10:35 PM

actually it wasn't directed at anyone in particular...and no offense taken. check back with me in a few years and lets see how you feel then. =8^-)

**ilovetheusers** · June 27th, 2002, 05:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geeksRus:
actually it wasn't directed at anyone in particular...and no offense taken. check back with me in a few years and lets see how you feel then. =8^-)<hr /></blockquote>Doubtful I will be any different. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

**Falanx** · June 27th, 2002, 05:16 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geeksRus:
i'll always pity atheists i guess...with nothing to believe in they have to go after any little thing they can find. i feel sorry for them.<hr /></blockquote>That's a bit harsh...

Not all atheists see life that way. I certainly don't. As far as I, and most other atheists I know - there's a fair number of them on engineering courses at UK universities... in fact, now I come to think of it, almost all scientists I know are at least agnostic - realise that their time on Earth is short, and that as long as they've made a useful contribution to society, and by extention, their species, then their time has not been ill-spent.
If I survive long enough to have kids, all I want to do is give them a head strat in the right direction, and watch them grow up. That's what we evolved for, remember?

**Cleetus** · June 27th, 2002, 07:02 AM

Actually a lot of historians are agnostic/athiestic as well. I was agnostic bordering on athiestic for a long time as well, memorizing the movie Inherit the Wind. I believe that I had some sort of intervention that can never fully be explained. I still question the bible and the church, but not my faith. Some don't need it, but I have found it has helped me.

As for the Pledge, from what I understand it was from a court in San Fran, and hopefully the decision will be overturned. Many of you know by now, I have taken an active stance in support of my country, right or wrong. Where as the pledge can be construed as a chant (the leader is good, the leader is great), I do also believe that it gives our children a sense of unity and a feeling that they belong to something greater. Fine take out the God part if it really so disruptive, but please, give our children something positive and reaffirming to see and feel regarding our or any country.

**kingtbone** · June 27th, 2002, 07:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by korpse:
I dunno...I think people are way too sensitive nowadays.
I do, however, agree with the separation of church and state. If it wasn' for that we would be no better than a country that follows islamic law...<hr /></blockquote>That's a good point. The most prominent example of a country that's rulers are it's religious rulers would be the Taliban I'd say.

**opiate** · June 27th, 2002, 08:17 AM

Hey, I want to be an atheist. How do I sign up? What are the requirements?

...only kidding...

The only problem I have with believing in God is that he is put so far up on a pedestal. Like he just appeared and created life and everything in existence. I find that VERY IMPOSSIBLE. There is nothing on earth that has ever equaled that kind of power. No one has witness anything of his power. It's almost like someone, somewhere, along time ago wrote a book and passed it down from year to year rewriting it over and over, exaggerating it more and more. Now people feel obligated to worship a fairy tail story because it's so old.

I think that if there is a God, he'd be just as normal as you and I. No super powers just a really, really deep thinker. If he's a the gate of Heaven make sure you've never did anything wrong including murder, rapping and stealing. Do you think the all mighty will send you burn in eternity for gambling or telling white lie's? No, I think not, it's not even human. Sin's a exaggerating way too much.

Unless God can prove his existence then I'm not a believer. I'm not getting evolved with corporate churches or watching advertisements about God on TV. I just don't buy it because the whole thing seems impossible. It seems like every believer is needy and needs something to look forward to so they turn to the fairy tail of the bible and only hope that it's real. I guaranty that everyone that is a believer has questioned the truth about God at least once in their life time.

I've tried everything to try and convince myself that there really is a God and I can't. I've searched several religions and churches. They all seem so lost and most of the time question the religion themselves.

I'm not saying this without knowledge of the bible because I was raised going to church every Sunday with my family. Luckily I've talked with my mother and she doesn't look down on me for my thoughts about it.

I cold go on and on about this subject. I'm sorry to be long winded.

**silencio** · June 27th, 2002, 10:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ilovetheusers:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geeksRus:
actually it wasn't directed at anyone in particular...and no offense taken. check back with me in a few years and lets see how you feel then. =8^-)<hr /></blockquote>Doubtful I will be any different. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>...I don't know. The closer to death you get the more fear you have. The more fear you have the more willing you are to believe anything. I've been there. Personally, I think beating the fear without the delusion is a big part of what lifes about.

**RIOT** · June 27th, 2002, 11:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by iateyourcat:
...I don't know. The closer to death you get the more fear you have. The more fear you have the more willing you are to believe anything. I've been there. Personally, I think beating the fear without the delusion is a big part of what lifes about.<hr /></blockquote>Am I delusional because when I am overcome with fear I ask the God I believe in to help me through it? Even if I'm wrong and God doesn't exist, the comfort from praying about problem, and nothing else, might be what helps me through it. Is that still delusion, because I ask for help?

I believe geeksRus meant that after you died, you might want to change your mind.

**kingtbone** · June 27th, 2002, 11:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by CW_WD_RIOT:
Even if I'm wrong and God doesn't exist, the comfort from praying about problem, and nothing else, might be what helps me through it. Is that still delusion, because I ask for help?<hr /></blockquote>I think that's a solid example of delusion actually.

**ilovetheusers** · June 27th, 2002, 12:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by iateyourcat:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ilovetheusers:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geeksRus:
actually it wasn't directed at anyone in particular...and no offense taken. check back with me in a few years and lets see how you feel then. =8^-)<hr /></blockquote>Doubtful I will be any different. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>...I don't know. The closer to death you get the more fear you have. The more fear you have the more willing you are to believe anything. I've been there. Personally, I think beating the fear without the delusion is a big part of what lifes about.<hr /></blockquote>No, you are wrong. I have seen death many a time and I have almost been killed a few times by accident (car crashes and stupidly playing with electric, etc). Again I will say, I do not need nor do I want a deity.

I have respect for others beliefs and I support your choice to be whatever religion you choose. Why is it that people with religious values rarely seem able to respect my values? You know, there are billions of people who do not believe in god, Allah or deities of any kind and they lead lives just like we do. Granted they do believe in some sort of afterlife but it is still one without a deity.

Is life without a deity that frightening to some that they feel the need to constantly tell others that they will find a deity some day? Do people really fear death that much or is it something else? I am not afraid of death at all and I have already accepted that it is the inevitable fate of all creatures large and small. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t seek death and I’m not head over heels about dying, I just don’t fear oblivion.

There is a saying that is apt:

“God protect me from your servants.”
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Perhaps I'm overreacting.

**Stanley_Kubrick** · June 27th, 2002, 01:00 PM

I gave up believing in God when I looked at the situation skeptically. I had more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus; at least he left stuff in the living room for me. All God ever did for me was kill my puppy and let me get beat up in middle school.

So yeah, "under God" gets on my nerves a little bit when I hear it. It feels to me like here comes God again, here comes Christianity, trying to muck up my patriotism. I just want to love my country without having to worship someone else's god.

People say stuff like "you must feel so empty" and what not, but the truth in my life is that shedding the bonds of Christianity has liberated my mind. I now approach life through instinct and feelings, rather than programming. If I have questions, I turn to Science or look inside myself. "Trusting God" just left me with an empty feeling. I can truly say I am happier without the beliefs I was stuffed with in my youth. Plus Christianity can really cramp your style if you like booze, drugs and sex.

I am a good person. I don't eat animals. I share love, respect all life, and I do it all on my own.

**opiate** · June 27th, 2002, 01:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Stanley_Kubrick:
I gave up believing in God when I looked at the situation skeptically. I had more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus; at least he left stuff in the living room for me. All God ever did for me was kill my puppy and let me get beat up in middle school.

So yeah, "under God" gets on my nerves a little bit when I hear it. It feels to me like here comes God again, here comes Christianity, trying to muck up my patriotism. I just want to love my country without having to worship someone else's god.

People say stuff like "you must feel so empty" and what not, but the truth in my life is that shedding the bonds of Christianity has liberated my mind. I now approach life through instinct and feelings, rather than programming. If I have questions, I turn to Science or look inside myself. "Trusting God" just left me with an empty feeling. I can truly say I am happier without the beliefs I was stuffed with in my youth. Plus Christianity can really cramp your style if you like booze, drugs and sex.

I am a good person. I don't eat animals. I share love, respect all life, and I do it all on my own.<hr /></blockquote>Right on man! That's pretty much how I feel. "Trusting God" just left me with an empty feeling. good line...

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