subject: THIS SAYS IT ALL!

**Lycia** · July 10th, 2002, 03:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Archer:
ermm...cough...I mean no offence and do not wish to rain on anyones parade but....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle <hr /></blockquote>Arent most people residing in the US Immigrants of one kind or another i.e.The Mayflower as an example?
The only Americans who could have ancestors from many,many generations are the tribes of the Indian nations.<hr /></blockquote>Amen. Although my ancestors hailed from the mexico region...

**Archer** · July 10th, 2002, 05:55 PM

Ermm ...we seem to be going off the track and round in circles here.
The origional argument was that people who are not born citizens of any country i.e. the US and residing within its boundaries should not have the same freedom of speech and similar rights of shall we say the "constitution" as everybody else.
Right?
Consider:
How many generations of ancestors do we need in your family tree born within a coutries boundaries before we are considered a true "citizen" with all the rights that are being trampling on?

When we move abroad and no longer reside in our home country are you saying we are no longer a citizen,with all the ensuing rights?

What is democracy and the freedom of speech worth if we cannot or will not let people use it?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Hindu group was offended by the changing of the guard, and had a huge protest about it, would the UK stop it?<hr /></blockquote>Probably not but we would not condemn the group for making,to them,what is a valid and important statement.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Now, if I was a POW, say in France (hypotheitical situation), and I didn't like the French food, they'd tell me to starve <hr /></blockquote>I d`ont know about in France either,but in the UK you would probably be force fed by court order.But then again this piece of argument is veering way off the ball.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Government buildings are no longer to decorate in many cities becuase it offended people. No manger (OK, thats religious). No Chaunakah (sp?) decorations. NO SANTA CLAUSE! No lights, no tree, etc... Why? Because some over sensitive person was offended because they do not celebrate Christmas. <hr /></blockquote>This is assumption and conjecture and really an invalid argument,given it could relate to a person or persons who may or may not also be American by birth.

If in a "free" western country you start denying citizens,be they temporary or not,the rights of the masses then you are on the slippery slope of denying rights to........lets say your neibour because you dislike the colour he paints his fence.Where does it stop?

To deny them is to deny yourself.

**kingtbone** · July 11th, 2002, 06:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by opiate:
I'm just damn glad I was born and raised in America instead of some mid eastern war torn hel hole country.<hr /></blockquote>You'd think that would make you happy to see immigrants be able to do the same for their kids.

**opiate** · July 11th, 2002, 07:32 AM

What is everyone arguing about? I just wanted to post this cool email that I got. I believe in it and will stand by it. I don't really care about anything else.

**kingtbone** · July 11th, 2002, 07:55 AM

I get bored if I'm not arguing something...

**Archer** · July 12th, 2002, 12:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> What is everyone arguing about? <hr /></blockquote>The point is the letter is based on incorrect statements,half truths,conjecture,invalid arguments and is ill concieved in this day and age.
It reeks of the kind of approach or "attitude" that has cause many of historys greatest milestones,it might be considered offencive in certain situations and also not very politically correct.
Having posted the letter one would assume you would like feedback on it or am I incorect ?

**MaddMaxx** · July 12th, 2002, 04:43 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Archer:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> What is everyone arguing about? <hr /></blockquote>The point is the letter is based on incorrect statements,half truths,conjecture,invalid arguments <hr /></blockquote>and dangling participles too?

**opiate** · July 12th, 2002, 07:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Archer:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> What is everyone arguing about? <hr /></blockquote>The point is the letter is based on incorrect statements,half truths,conjecture,invalid arguments and is ill concieved in this day and age.
It reeks of the kind of approach or "attitude" that has cause many of historys greatest milestones,it might be considered offencive in certain situations and also not very politically correct.
Having posted the letter one would assume you would like feedback on it or am I incorect ?<hr /></blockquote>Feedback is good but trying to tear it down word for word is stupid. I assume the person who wrote it, did it in good faith and not meaning to be criticized about it.

O well, the next time I get a heart felt email I won't post it.

**Cleetus** · July 12th, 2002, 07:42 AM

What?!?!? Is Opiate backing down, Is he saying he won't post offensive things any more?

Hey, I agree with the tone of the letter, but not the way it was carried out. I commend the gentleman for his strong feelings, yet I think his reasoning was flawed. I have been reading a lot since the ruling over the "under God", and found that the feelings in the fifties were that the phrase should NOT have been put into the Pledge. And further that the majority of Americans during that time period and even earlier in the WWII, felt that the Pledge should NOT be a forced thing for our children to say.

The difference between now and then was the personal feeling of pride in one's state and one's nation, all over the world. With the expansion of the world due to all of our technological advances, I personally feel that we have lost the pride, the deep rooted personal pride. I feel lucky to live in what I consider the last state in the US to really have a true pride in itself. TEXAS.

Me done ranting. Opiate, find us more stuff for fun arguing.

**ChipCreep** · July 12th, 2002, 08:03 AM

Look at US immigration in history. Between 1880 and 1920 our country saw its largest expansion due to immigration, mostly European. These people were looking for the American Dream. They worked their ever-loving butts off to claw out a place in our culture; and while preserving aspects of their heritage and culture of which they were rightfully proud, they desperately worked to adapt to our country and become absorbed into its culture, too. They wanted their children to have an even bigger piece of American prosperity, and I think they succeeded.

I'm not afraid of immigration in and of itself. All the time I read and hear of stories of new immigrants still slavishly working their fingers to the bone and so extremely happy to be able to do it in freedom instead of oppression. I live near an Air Force Base and the community has a large population of Southeast Asian immigrants. They are the hardest working, patriotic people you could ever see.

Immigration and more population is not a burden and detriment, except perhaps in the very short run; history shows that in the long run we will be a stronger country, especially economically.

**ilovetheusers** · July 12th, 2002, 08:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by opiate:
What is everyone arguing about? I just wanted to post this cool email that I got. I believe in it and will stand by it. I don't really care about anything else.<hr /></blockquote>Bull****. You live to stir up an argument, which is not a bad thing.

Oh, and BTW - there is a Cherokee that fully agrees with this and wants all us Europeans and other non Americans out by next Wed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Still, I understand your viewpoint of people adopting the roles of earlier people who moved here adopting the ways of the older culture. But, we must also remember that the newer cultures always influenced and changed the older culture as well. I hear this sort of reactionary stuff on talk radio every day and I understand the underlying motive but in reality nothing will change. People in 50 years will get up, eat breakfast, take our kids to school and go to work and pump out lots of little kids just like they do today. They may not have the same color skin, worship the same god(s) or eat the same foods but in time they will look just like everyone else here. Tolerance bud, tolerance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

**opiate** · July 12th, 2002, 10:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cleetus:
Me done ranting. Opiate, find us more stuff for fun arguing.

<hr /></blockquote>O you can bet your a$$ I will!

**opiate** · July 12th, 2002, 10:18 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ilovetheusers:
Bull****. You live to stir up an argument, which is not a bad thing. <hr /></blockquote>$hit, I'm sorry to disapoint everyone by backing down. I guess I need to live up to my name....so, f#ck everyone...you're all a bunch of stupid asses.

How was that? J/K

**Cleetus** · July 12th, 2002, 10:22 AM

Whew, thanks Opiate, now I can breathe much much better. Now I have to go pee.

**n8dawg** · July 12th, 2002, 01:04 PM

what pissed me off about this post is the man own ignorance
<blockquote>quote:<hr />This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to
dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
[/b]he contradics himself..topic is a flutter of mixed emotions steeming from this argument that lead into the american flag argument very ruffly were i couldnt grasp the connection of the two...

[quote]This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment
gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom,<hr /></blockquote>sounds to me like he is doing enough complaining for everyone...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home<hr /></blockquote>and wtf is this an opion responded bye the most ignorat statment i have herd in a long time...so i am not american if i dont belive in god? find a new home??? this guy is agruing how great america is but then stabbing himself with why america is so great!!!!i wish i could write back to this phuck head.

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