Onboard Promise on OS drive?
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Thread: Onboard Promise on OS drive?

  1. #1
    Junior Member mycroftb's Avatar
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    Exclamation Onboard Promise on OS drive?

    I've been having this problem in various forms for over a year, and I'm frustrated that it hasn't been fixed yet. A quick googling of the web turned up nothing similar to it, and I find it hard to believe that no one else has run into this. Maybe there are techs having these problems, but just using workarounds and not actively persuing a real solution. But enough ranting, on to the problem.

    Components:
    Any motherboard with onboard Promise Fasttrack RAID controller
    Any NT-based operating system
    (it may also occur with add-in RAID controllers based on the Fasttrack chipset (no experience with them, not tested), but does not occur with the Ultra line of non-RAID add-in controllers)

    Problem:
    When installing Windows 2000/XP, when it gets to the point of copying files, Windows Setup reports that it cannot copy a certain file from the diskette.

    Workarounds:
    Method 1: (Easiest) Connect single drive to motherboard southbridge IDE, install Windows, install drivers for RAID controller (installed from the same diskette that Windows Setup claims it cannot read), then move the drive to the Promise controller, and continue normally
    Method 2: (Harder) Attach a spare drive to motherboard southbridge IDE, install Windows, install drivers for the RAID controller. Create RAID array, if needed. Use symantec ghost to duplicate the windows install on the spare drive over to the attached drive or RAID array. Continue to install drivers and other software normally.

    Details:
    When first booting from the CD, Windows Setup prompts to hit F6 to install a third party SCSI or RAID adapter (if this is not done, Windows will say later that it cannot see any hard drives attached). Windows loads a few files, then prompts for the driver diskette. The correct driver must be selected (usually it'll have an entry for NT4, 2000, and XP, it may also list RAID-array and non-RAID-array versions for each OS). It then loads the rest of the setup files, and proceeds with hard drive partitioning and formatting. At this point, logically, it has used the driver and it's working properly, otherwise it wouldn't see the drive at all, but screw logic. After the partition is finished formatting, it starts to copy Windows setup files, then immediately reports an error message, stating that it cannot copy a file (previously something like 'fasttrak.sys', but in my current problem system, it's 'fasttx2k.sys'). If this file is skipped, it will contine to report problems copying the .cat and .inf versions of the file too. If they're all skipped, it will eventually be unable to find the hard drive.

    I've had this problem on Asus and MSI motherboards, all with the Promise raid controller. From what I've found, the driver version is tied to the BIOS version, so they must be updated together. I've used the stock BIOS and bundled driver diskette. I've flashed the BIOS to all available versions, and used that version of the drivers. I've even used drivers from Promise's website (making sure to match the version of the RAID card's BIOS). And of course I've tried an older BIOS with newer driver and newer BIOS with older driver, not really expecting it to work, but just in case. None of it works the way it's supposed to, but I can get around it using the workarounds listed above.

    I've emailed Asus about it a few times, with no response. Promise just says since they didn't manufacture it, talk to the mobo manufacturer. I just emailed MSI about it today, since this is the first encounter we've had with loading the OS on a RAID-attached drive with one of their motherboards.

    A few of the guys around the shop have some onboard RAID controllers made by HighPoint (including me) and can install Windows on them the same way with no problems.

    So, basically, I *can* work around it and have a good stable solution, but I'm not liking that much, as it's not doing the customer any good. End-users should be able, using only the provided equipment and software, to reinstall their OS or install a different OS. And I'd think most people who have a computer built for them wouldn't want to much around with rearranging cables and having spare equipment on-hand. (Those that would screw around with recabling and have spare equipment would generally build the computer themselves)

    And that concludes my story. Any one have a similar problem, and been able to find a genuine fix for it?

    (while I was typing this, a co-worker found a thread somewhere that someone had the same problem, but fixed it by renaming the drivers from uppercase to lowercase filenames. Just tried that, and that didn't work either.)


    Update: I did receive a reply from MSI, the gist of which recommends I try a different pair of drives, a single drive by itself, or a new cable. I tried this (used a Seagate SATA drive with a SATA cable of a different brand) without success. I even attached a regular hard drive to the motherboard southbridge, with nothing attached to the Promise controller, and after loading the drivers as described above, I still get the "cannot copy file" error. Of course, this way, skipping all three files allows the installation to continue normally.
    Last edited by mycroftb; May 30th, 2003 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Atodini's Avatar
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    If MSI reply to your e-mail they'll probably tell you to read the instructions that came with your motherboard!!

    These clearly state that for 2000 / XP you must install follow the procedure installing the RAID driver first in a broadly similar manner to your Method #1.

    You load the RAID driver onto one disk connected to the normal IDE socket, then move the drive to the RAID, configure, then load the OS.

    It worked perfectly for me on my MSI KT333 board.

    This is in the separate RAID booklet not the motherboard booklet.

    If you have'nt got this booklet you can download a PDF here: You want page 17.

    http://www.msi.com.tw/program/suppor...=ATA133%20RAID

    John
    Last edited by Atodini; May 30th, 2003 at 08:02 PM.
    Now where did I leave my Lump Hammer?

    "I thought I was wrong once" - "But I was wrong"

  3. #3
    Junior Member mycroftb's Avatar
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    At 09:02PM on 05-30-2003, Atodini wrote:
    If MSI reply to your e-mail they'll probably tell you to read the instructions that came with your motherboard!!

    These clearly state that for 2000 / XP you must install follow the procedure installing the RAID driver first in a broadly similar manner to your Method #1.
    I tried to, of course, read all pertinent documentation before asking for help. (And as a side note, I do not think any of these Taiwanese-English translated manuals clearly state anything )

    But yes, I have referred to the included documentation, and it does give the impression that what I call a "normal" installation of Windows is possible, and recommends it for new installations of Windows. My Method #1 is also stated as being required if the RAID card is being installed on an existing installation of Windows.

    The problem is, in my particular instance, the motherboard is the GNB Max MS-6565, with the Promise controller only having SATA connections, and the hard drives are a pair of WD Raptor SATA ones. As far as I know, there is no way to attach a SATA drive to a normal parallel IDE controller. (Not to be confused with devices that permit a parallel drive to be used on a serial controller, these are plentiful.) If such equipment existed, it is clearly not included with the motherboard, and would qualify as "spare equipment" that originally concerns me.

    I did receive a reply from MSI concerning my problem, in which they recommend I try a different hard drive and/or a different cable (which didn't work). See my updated post for more information.

    And taking a look through the PDF you linked to, it does look very similar (the controller name may be different, but the text looks the same, down to the punctuation errors) to the documentation included. I don't have the manual with me at the moment, but I'll go ahead and say it's the same text. I did read it thoroughly, but did you?

    On page 2, it says that there are two methods for installation, something similar to my Method #1, and this:

    Attach the drive you desire to the ATA133 RAID connectors. Then install the Windows NT4, 2000 or XP software together with the ATA133 RAID driver (in the floppy disk) into the drive by pressing <F6>. For detailed information, see "Installing Driver During New Windows NT4.0/2000/XP Installation" on page 17.

    That's what I like to describe as a "normal" installation. The 'detailed information' on page 17 is below.

    Windows NT4.0/2000/XP

    Installing Driver During New Windows NT4.0/2000/XP Installation
    1. CD-ROM Install: Boot from the CD-ROM. Press <F6> after the message "Press F6 if you need to install a third party SCSI or RAID driver" appears.
    2. When the "Windows NT4.0/2000/XP Setup" window is generated, press "S" to Specify an Additional Device
    3. Insert the MSI driver diskette into drive A: and press "Enter" key.
    4. Choose "NT4.0/Win2000/XP Promise MBFastTrak133 Lite Controller" from the list that appears on screen, then press the "Enter" key.
    5. The Windows NT4.0/2000/XP Setup screen will appear again saying "Setup will load support for the following mass storage devices:" The list will include "NT.40/Win2000/XP Promise MBFastTrak133 Lite controller"..
    6. From the Windows NT4.0/2000/XP Setup screen, press the Enter key. Setup will now load all device files then continue the Windows NT4.0/2000/XPinstallation.


    No doubt about it, this describes the method I'm trying to use to install Windows.

    Thanks anyway, John, for taking the time to try to correct the issue, and even doing a bit of research on MSI's website. Unfortunately, it still doesn't solve my problem.

    -David

  4. #4
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    Same problem

    Had to search for this topic.
    Same problem with IDE drives and Promise
    FastTrak on Gigabyte on a WinXP upgrade.
    Nothing I did works.
    Been researching for three days now.
    Have you found anything else on this?
    Hope so because thiis is a bigtime headache.
    RRR

  5. #5
    Banned Ya_know's Avatar
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    If nothing else works, one of these will, installed NT4 just the other day. Should work fine with 2k and XP

    Adaptec 1200a

  6. #6
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    Ya-Know, that was part of the research: what other cards WOULD work? But as the original post states, how can we get it to work with what was already working before and SHOULD work now but doesn't? The board in question has onboard RAID. I did everything the original poster did to know avail. I suppose the easiest way is to get a card that works with original XP (built in) drivers which are autodetected. Is that the case with this card? Remember that this is an XP upgrade, and now I have to get his mirror back. Right now it is working off of the IDE sans mirror.

  7. #7
    Banned Ya_know's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TripleRLtd
    Ya-Know, that was part of the research: what other cards WOULD work? But as the original post states, how can we get it to work with what was already working before and SHOULD work now but doesn't? The board in question has onboard RAID. I did everything the original poster did to know avail. I suppose the easiest way is to get a card that works with original XP (built in) drivers which are autodetected. Is that the case with this card? Remember that this is an XP upgrade, and now I have to get his mirror back. Right now it is working off of the IDE sans mirror.
    My best advice to you is to start your own thread, and perhaps reference this thread, but go over the short version of what you did, and what you want to achieve. I didn't read a lick of what went on above, the post are just to long, and a few months old...I bet a lot of people are over looking this thread for the same reasons...

    As far as the Adaptec card...with NT it required hitting F6 to load additional drivers. I don't know if the XP setup has these drivers available, but it wouldn't take much to test that out...just booting off of the XP CD and let it go, see if it sees the array.

  8. #8
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    Oh well

    I guess if new posts, whether continuations of old ones or not, don't get read, then perhaps this is not the right forum. And, if posts are too long to read, ditto.
    You know, I have been accessing this forum since 1999 and was actually registered with the original Driver Guy, but my reg was "lost" in the takeover. I may seem to be a "newbie" to you, but I am one of the originals.
    I KNOW how to post and how this alll works.
    Ya_Know, have you ever had a problem which you really have to explain? In detail?
    Any tech has had them.
    To tell the truth, I have never posted a problem I have been having, because I have always figured them out myself, without having to format and start fresh.
    That seems to be the going solution in the tech world, but not my world.
    ANYONE can do that!!!
    Anyone.
    I don't mean to be harsh, but this site used to be the best, which is why I searched here, and why I re-registered to post again.
    Geez, all you had to do was read the original post.
    Richard
    Millenniium Computers
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  9. #9
    Registered User DocPC's Avatar
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    Re: Oh well

    Originally posted by TripleRLtd
    I guess if new posts, whether continuations of old ones or not, don't get read, then perhaps this is not the right forum. And, if posts are too long to read, ditto.
    You know, I have been accessing this forum since 1999 and was actually registered with the original Driver Guy, but my reg was "lost" in the takeover. I may seem to be a "newbie" to you, but I am one of the originals.
    I KNOW how to post and how this alll works.
    Ya_Know, have you ever had a problem which you really have to explain? In detail?
    Any tech has had them.
    To tell the truth, I have never posted a problem I have been having, because I have always figured them out myself, without having to format and start fresh.
    That seems to be the going solution in the tech world, but not my world.
    ANYONE can do that!!!
    Anyone.
    I don't mean to be harsh, but this site used to be the best, which is why I searched here, and why I re-registered to post again.
    Geez, all you had to do was read the original post.
    Richard
    Millenniium Computers
    Pine Island
    Florida
    Welcome back d00d.......

    Don't mind him........He's a good guy.

    A bit anal, but just fine.


    That is all.
    Follow this link to chat for a quicker answer!

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  10. #10
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    Sooooo...

    So Doc.
    Any suggestions?

  11. #11
    Registered User DocPC's Avatar
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    Re: Sooooo...

    Originally posted by TripleRLtd
    So Doc.
    Any suggestions?

    Sorry...no. I never had this issue.

    Always works for me.
    Follow this link to chat for a quicker answer!

    NooNoo, grover, Matridom, cc_penguin, Octavian, crazyman, Major Kong, and Mayet onboard.....And now starring Ya_know!

  12. #12
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    Thanks...

    ...for everything.
    Where is NOONOO when you need her?
    Where is CONFUSSED when you need him?
    Sleeping I guess.
    WAKE UP DAMN YOU!!!!

  13. #13
    Registered User DocPC's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks...

    Originally posted by TripleRLtd
    ...for everything.
    Where is NOONOO when you need her?
    Where is CONFUSSED when you need him?
    Sleeping I guess.
    WAKE UP DAMN YOU!!!!
    They will be along soon.....UK ya know....
    Follow this link to chat for a quicker answer!

    NooNoo, grover, Matridom, cc_penguin, Octavian, crazyman, Major Kong, and Mayet onboard.....And now starring Ya_know!

  14. #14
    Banned TripleRLtd's Avatar
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    I know ya-know

    They will be yelling:
    Wake up damn you in their morning while I am still sleeping.

  15. #15
    Driver Terrier NooNoo's Avatar
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    Re: I know ya-know

    Originally posted by TripleRLtd
    They will be yelling:
    Wake up damn you in their morning while I am still sleeping.
    Huh? yaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnn whats all the fuss about?

    Edit: I have only played with promise ide controllers and boy those caused me some grief...turned out the 2k drivers were much more stable.

    But two things strike me about these posts, 1, no one has mentioned configuring the raid bios and 2, the first posts says that "windows couldnt copy a certain file" Which file? is it the same one every time?
    Never, ever approach a computer saying or even thinking "I will just do this quickly."

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