Converting MP3

[kato2274]

Originally posted by CeeBee
If you create a *standard* audio CD on a CD-R (not CD-RW) it *WILL* work on any CD player.

theorectically. . . . yes, but realistically . . . . not always. I've got a couple of players, one of them is a DVD player that will not accept any hommade discs whether they be cds dvds whatever. . . . just won't play them. And I've gotten rid of a couple of cd players because they had trouble playing burnt media but played stamped media just fine.

also some players will work with burnt media but are extremely picky about the media. had one cd player that would not work with a brand of media I had gotten a great deal on despite the fact that those cds worked everywhere else without incident.

[Raffaz]

Ive just tried a disc on mine and it works fine. According to what ive been told some players wont play copied disks because of the quality of the laser. If its a good quality laser it has a thinner beam so it can read in the grooves better. A crap one has thicker beams which cant read right into the groove so it doesnt pick up all the information in there. CDRs have dye placed on after the disc is pressed, the more dye in the groove the harder it is for the laser to pick it up.

Mick

[Kineda]

Also there are a select few car cd players that are capable of reading wma files now, just think you can get about 400-500 songs on 1 cd, you could leave the same cd in for a few months and not hear the same song twice. the players range from affordable to really expensive like i saw 1 that was able to play mp3 and wma for like 200 that was i think an aiwa, but kenwood has one too that is like $700 that is really bad a$$, but like everything else it will take a while before the public really catches on to new good things. like for example if you walk in to any electronics store there aer really only a handfull of mp3 capable head units, and this is several years after mp3 has become a standard. hopefully this will pickup, and better things will come after.

[kpataska]

I have never had a problem burning MP3's to RedBook Audio. The problem is the media. I only use Taiyo Yuden 74M CD-R's. Non-audio, regular data grade. Silver (unlabled) Cyan. I test them all successfully on my old Discman D-3. You can't get much older than that! They all play without issue. It can't play 80M CD's, but I typically stick with 74's because everything plays them.

Hope this helps!

Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by CeeBee
If you create a *standard* audio CD on a CD-R (not CD-RW) it *WILL* work on any CD player.

Nope, my parents explorer, will NOT play them, cd-r's that is

[CeeBee]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer
Nope, my parents explorer, will NOT play them, cd-r's that is

Quality blank CD's written as no multi-session/disc-at-once and CD closed? THAT is weird. By default most burning programs will try to write multi-session/not close the CD and that can cause problems (even some older CD-ROM drives had issues with multi-session CD's)
If you are using Nero close the wizard when attempting to burn and set the parameters manualy, that should do the trick.
The best test that you can do is copy a stamped CD to a CD-R and see if it works (it should).

[3D Prophet III]

Originally posted by Raffaz
If its a good quality laser it has a thinner beam so it can read in the grooves better. A crap one has thicker beams which cant read right into the groove so it doesnt pick up all the information in there. CDRs have dye placed on after the disc is pressed, the more dye in the groove the harder it is for the laser to pick it up.

Mick

There aren't any groves on a cd, there are lands and pits. The burner etches pits onto the dye that's coated on the media. What you say about the quality of the laser is true to an extent, but it isn't because the beam is too wide, it's because the beam isn't bright enough to shine through the dye to hit the reflective surface that's behind the dye and reflect back to the pickup that reads what the laser is lighting up. CD-RW recorders have an extra laser that super heat the dye on CD-RW media which smooths these pits out, which erases whats on the media. no pits, no data. CD-RWs have a differnt type of dye on them then CD-Rs and it's coated thicker on them which makes it virtually impossible for normal car/home audio CD players to read because the coat is so dark & thick, the pickup is unable to detect what the laser is lighting up.

[Raffaz]

Originally posted by 3D Prophet III
There aren't any groves on a cd, there are lands and pits. The burner etches pits onto the dye that's coated on the media. What you say about the quality of the laser is true to an extent, but it isn't because the beam is too wide, it's because the beam isn't bright enough to shine through the dye to hit the reflective surface that's behind the dye and reflect back to the pickup that reads what the laser is lighting up. CD-RW recorders have an extra laser that super heat the dye on CD-RW media which smooths these pits out, which erases whats on the media. no pits, no data. CD-RWs have a differnt type of dye on them then CD-Rs and it's coated thicker on them which makes it virtually impossible for normal car/home audio CD players to read because the coat is so dark & thick, the pickup is unable to detect what the laser is lighting up.

There are actually grooves in a cd they are about 3nm wide and are pressed into the disk. At work we check this by using a CAT machine to make sure they are up to spec.. Thats how if you buy expensive player it sounds better coz it can pull out more info. Also there is info on disc before you write it which is pressed by the stamper it contains info about the size of the disc, and format of the disc. The dye (rengolux) is what we use, its light sensitive which does what you say, but another point your missing out is the fact that a 4x cdr has a thicker dye coating than a 48x cdr. The higher the speed the less dye on the disk, because the laser is moving over faster it has less time to burn data so you need thinner coat(you get verify fails if dye is to thick). Now if what your saying about the cd/rw being correct then that will also mean that a 4x disc wouldnt play either coz of the thicker coating. A cd/rw doesnt play in standard players coz of the format of the disc. Whick is determined by the stamper. Just like if you try to use a blank cdr disc in a home audio system it wont recognise it coz of the format but you could write it on pc then use it in same hi-fi. Heres a bit info on how it works.

Like gramophone records, the information on optical discs is recorded on a spiral track. The laser starts 'reading' the disc from the inside and ends at the outside. When played back, a laser beam shines on the ridges and lands. When the beam strikes a land, the beam is reflected onto a photoelectric cell. When it strikes a ridge, the photocell will receive only a weak reflection. Thus the photoelectrical cell receives series of light pulses corresponding to the ridges and lands in the disc. A D/A-converter (digital to analogue converter: DAC) converts the series of pulses back to binary coding, and then to decimal values. Now the original analogue signal can be rebuilt.

Sorry if this makes no sense but ive just woke up

Mick

[3D Prophet III]

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Arti...uality&index=0

[Raffaz]

http://www.omnidisc.com.sg/technical/howdocdswork.htm

I was talking to the process engineer at work and there are grooves. If you want i will get the phillips spec sheets and scan them for you to proove it. I make these discs everyday, so i think i should know.

Mick

[confus-ed]

Errr the track is effectively the 'grove' ... which is present after burning ... not before !

You effectively record a small hole for no data & a bigger hole for data ...

As any track is recorded on a blank, whether there's data present or not the track needs mapping so that CDFS knows where to position the laser (& thus be able to follow the track on)

This incidentally is why pressed cd's work everywhere & 'home done' CDRs don't ... the accuracy of the laser tracking isn't good enough for some old players to follow (different 'cd Book' in play ... each standard book has different tracking tolerance & different error correction schemes associated with it)...

So to go bacck to what kicked this off ... if you have the right standard CD recorder you should be able to produce CDRs which work on any equipment ... however most home burners are orange book ... wheras for 'general' cd play you want red book (the original standard) which is what pressed cd's adhere to !!

[Raffaz]

Right so if thats the case how can i take a reading on the prometheus machine at work and measure the groove depth of a pressed polycarb disk that doesnt have dye, silver coating, or lacquer on it?

[confus-ed]

At the risk of provocoking you further - just what is this to which you refer ... "pressed polycarb disk that doesnt have dye, silver coating, or lacquer on it" ... it ain't much of a cd is it without all that ? that's a coaster !!!

Groves or flipping not - the reason why CDRs don't always work in standard players is their 'book' standard .

[Raffaz]

Originally posted by confus-ed
Errr the track is effectively the 'grove' ... which is present after burning ... not before !

Rubbish, All cds have a groove its called a pre-groove, this is present before and after burning Its pressed into the disk by the stamper at the moulding stage. The purpose of this is to guide the burner as its burning. Info is written in the pre-groove as pits/marks.The track pitch of the pre-groove is the same as the track pitch of a pre mastered disc. The pre-groove also has a slight wobble, the laser detects how many wobbles per disk revolution and adjusts speed accordingly using this.

The whole point to this forum is to answer problems and to help educate people. Now the reason why im going on so m uch about this is because people are trying to tell me that a cd doesnt contain a groove so i am simply correcting you about it. I know im right because i make and test them for a living. But if anyone here wants more proof then ive got spec sheets here from STEAG(one of the largest CD replication companies), i will be happy to e-mail them on if anyone wants to check them out. [email protected] if you want them.

Oh and the reason why some cd players cant read certain discs is because they have slightly lower reflectivity.

Mick

[confus-ed]

Good gravy Raffaz .... Calm down ! ....

You are talking about the Absolute Time In Pre-Groove (ATIP) this is present on the outer of the disk ... (I may prove to be wrong again but this is only on one edge of the disk & is used as part of the calibration process) ... happy now ? See - Unrecorded disk tests

I will take issue with this bit though ...

Oh and the reason why some cd players cant read certain discs is because they have slightly lower reflectivity

As I said earlier pressed audio cd's adhere to red book cd standards .... most home burners adhere to Orange book cd standards & THIS is why 'audio only' cd equipment can't read 'burnt' CDRs because they are created to different tolerances & standards by their very nature ...
...you might be agreeing with me ...