(House) Re wiring query ?

**confus-ed** · July 8th, 2003, 06:56 AM

Okey dokey ... so the last time my mum's house was re-wired was 25 or so years ago ... mmm ... so she asks me to fit a light & a plug to an outbuilding ... so I say sure, another ? ... but this is 'outside' so I want it on it's own supply from the distribution box - on its own trip switch - took one look at the 'old' distribution box in the cellar & thought 'I need an electrician !' .... so before I resort to that ....

I can swap a distro box ... (no problemo there) - but I'm not sure about the rest of the cabling ...

Now the house has 'modern' plastic shielded cable ... but not all of it is 'earth included' (the flat kind that carries all three cables) some of it is single strand ... I poked about a bit at the 'easier' points to find on the circuits & various bits are modern & various bits single ... all the switches /plugs are modern (I've changed most of them over the last few years)

So .... do I need to re-wire ? (or can I get away with just a new distro. box ?) ... its a messy job & in that house a lot of upheaval ... If I get get away with just chasing out the single strand stuff that's good too (though absolutely necessary?)...

I want to know how long wire is supposed to last ... will last ... & how old that single strand stuff might be ...

If this wasn't my cantankerous old mother ... I'd just re-wire the lot !

...also bear in mind I'll get stuck with doing this ...

**NooNoo** · July 8th, 2003, 07:13 AM

Can you clarify what you mean by single strand?

Wiring is considered old at around 25 years depending on the state it's in... my mother in laws sockets were emitting green goo after just 15 years....

As for your outside connection - you need an armoured cable...

**freddy** · July 8th, 2003, 07:15 AM

if its the older stuff , then its well out of date , plastic has been in use for 30 odd year , change the consumer unit by all means , but u may have fun with trips , i have done a lot on hotels ,,can,t empty them ,,,,so have to do your best.

as i said be carefull with trips ,,the will pop every time any damp etc

if nessessary fit the consumer unit slightly higher (so u can gather cables) ,,,,,

PS joe norweb/manweb don,t like u pullin main fuse (but don,t mind PROVIDING u have not put new tails in there meter

they will connect new tails FOC ,,,providing job looks neet ,,,,OVER DO the earth cables

good luck freddy

**confus-ed** · July 8th, 2003, 07:26 AM

What I mean by single strand ... is just that, one wire for neutral, one for live & seperate earth ....

The outside is in a seperate but still attached garage ... I don't need to go underground or 'outside' really ... do I still need armoured ? (though its only a bit extra?)

There's two distro boxes ... a new one in the shinny new kitchen ... which does all the downstairs circuits ... which she won't let me connect to

... the 'old' one is in the cellar & does the rest of the house - this I have to connect to apparently ! ... this has the lights on these 'iffy' cables ... I don't have a spare fuse on this old box or I'd connect there ...

A qualified bloke did the kitchen last year & said all the rest didn't need doing ??? However he put the new box in the kitchen ?

Oh edit ...

Hiya freddy !

... long time no see ...

**freddy** · July 8th, 2003, 07:36 AM

ok , buy yourself a single/double consumer unit , screw it to the wooden block on the wall , run the cables (1 lights 2 power) thru to the out building ,,,

remove the main fuse in the celler , and buy 2 insulated blocks , screw those to wall ,, remove the tails from the old consumer unit ,conect to the insulated blocks , and run new tails to the old and the new consumer units 20 quid tops ,,,,redo all the earths to both the boxes

freddy

**freddy** · July 8th, 2003, 07:39 AM

hi confused ,,im allways lurkin ,,,,hard work typing on this non uk ,,,lappy ,,,,

so just read most posts and reply if ppl are stuck.

cheers alan

**NooNoo** · July 8th, 2003, 07:43 AM

OK that is twin and earth. T&E comes in 2.5 mm2 for 30amp/15amp circuits (sockets and the like) 1.5 mm2 for lighting circuits and the 45amp circuits require 6mm2 or above.

The cable going through the walls to the outbuilding should be sleeved where it is going through the walls and if it's going to be surface mounted you should put it in capping... metal being best. Conduit - the type used in factories

**freddy** · July 8th, 2003, 07:47 AM

also note that a lot of cable comes from italy in 1mm dia ,,and spec now for cookers/showers is now 8mm ,, not six. in ENGLAND and WALES but not in scotland where 6mm is still accepted.

**NooNoo** · July 8th, 2003, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by freddy
also note that a lot of cable comes from italy in 1mm dia ,,and spec now for cookers/showers is now 8mm ,, not six. in ENGLAND and WALES but not in scotland where 6mm is still accepted.

Was thinking about the cooker - thats still 6mm isnt it? Showers? yep, monster kilowatt draws those things are...

**confus-ed** · July 8th, 2003, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by NooNoo
OK that is twin and earth. T&E comes in 2.5 mm2 for 30amp/15amp circuits (sockets and the like) 1.5 mm2 for lighting circuits and the 45amp circuits require 6mm2 or above.

Am I being confus-ed ? The picture above is what I'm happy with ... this older 'stuff' is completley seperate (one wire each neutral or live, seperate earth) or its incredibably thin & there's lots of circuits ... I assumed

, with its diameter that it must only carry one wire ?( I need to go look again ...)

My mum swears blind the electrician said this was ok ? (I really don't believe her/him!) ... this is what I think is 25 years old .. I changed the socket circuits about 5 years ago when I did the central heating & just ran them back to the distro box & a 30 amp fuse (that's like above) .... there's only bits of this dotted about ? (all the bits that live in walls & would need chasing out & make mess !)

**Archer** · July 8th, 2003, 11:06 AM

It does sound like the older stuff needs replacing with modern twin and earth cabling [as pic] as apart from two way switches[i.e. top and bottom of stairs controlling one light] it is seldom used within residential housing and is double insulated i.e. red/black inner insulation with outer grey/white insulation.
As the insulation on these older rubberised cables can become unsafe or brittle over time as well as being under size for modern appliances this may cause you problems if installing a new fuse board.

Another problem with older wiring is inadequate or non existant earthing on electrical appliances plus the earthing regulations have changed over the years requiring bigger and better earthing to not only electrical appliances but also to radiators,baths,water pipes etc.

As to rewire you can use plastic surface trunking fitted in the corners of rooms or by door frames to install the drops for switches and sockets should the need apply to save chasing out the wall and redecorating it just needs painting in a sympathetic colour to the wall finish.
The extension does really need a circuit all to itself which can be installed in plastic conduit for safety and as its an outhouse you might consider installing a socket with a breaker on it.

BTW you may find the older wiring is one cable per outlet hence the amount of wiring.

**nunob** · July 8th, 2003, 01:55 PM

Just useless trivia for you. The picture of the cable that Noo Noo posted in America is called 12-2 12 being the wire gauge and two being the number of primary wires and the ground is always assumed. example 12-3 would have three wires plus a ground. Oh and the old wire is cloth covered and the new wire is plastic, we have been using the "new" wire for about thirty years according to my step dad who owns and operates his own electrical biz he remembers the big push to plastic wire in the early 70's. Anyhow just thought a comparrison was in order. Best of luck in your venture.

**weazel** · July 8th, 2003, 09:46 PM

Confus-ed, you said it's an attached garage, right? Even if it's not a damp location, I'd consider installing a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) breaker supplying it or a GFCI outlet inside it. I'm not sure if you folks have an equavalent or not....
Hope all goes well with the work!