Need new removable storage drive: DVD or Tape?
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Thread: Need new removable storage drive: DVD or Tape?

  1. #1
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    Need new removable storage drive: DVD or Tape?

    Here's my problem: I have a tuner card so I record a lot of TV shows on my PC so I use up the space pretty fast. I used to put the files larger than 1GB on two 15/30GB ADR tapes that I used for movies and backed up my PC to 2 other ADR tapes but now my 4 tapes as well as my hard drive are full, so I cant backup anymore and I'm out of space.

    I can either get a DVD writer but at only 4.7GB/disk it's pretty useless especially since I'm used to 15GB/disk. This would take me about 20 DVDs just to move my movie files, then I would be able to make a full backup of my other files to 2 or 3 tapes, which is still a lot of tapes for a full backup.

    Or I can get a tape drive with at least 30GB uncompressed and use 1-2 tapes for my video files and 1 tape to backup (it would have to be a drive supported by 1Safe or with drivers that allow drive letter access so I can watch movies right from the tape like I do now).

    I'm leaning towards a Sony AIT tape drive rather than a DVD writer since in less than a year there will be 9.4GB (dual layer) recordable DVDs and I dont feel like having my movies spread out on 20 DVDs that I have to juggle each time I want to find a movie. I can also sell my current tape drive and tapes for at least $150 US if I get a new tape drive.

    Which option would you think is best?

    I want to pay $500 US max. for a tape drive with at least 30GB uncompressed, I dont mind getting it used. Is AIT the most cost effective? I was very impressed that the 35/90GB tapes are only $39, thats cheaper than the 15/30GB tapes I use now! New AIT drives seem to be about $100-150 above my budget, is it worth saving for a few weeks and get a new $600-700 AIT drive? It seems pretty expensive to me since I'm a student but I desperately need a large removable storage drive.

    Thanks
    Last edited by ClickHere2Surf.com; January 27th, 2004 at 10:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User silencio's Avatar
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    Have you thought about compressing the files more with something like divx?
    Deliver me from Swedish furniture!

  3. #3
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    I've got hundreds of videos, it would take days to convert them all, and I have a 72" XGA screen so I dont want to sacrifice any quality, they already arent recorded at a very high bitrate. Plus I'm missing at least 40GB in space. I really need a removable storage drive.

  4. #4
    Registered User Gabriel's Avatar
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    Hello,
    IMHO
    Tape Vs. DVD-R

    Tape
    Pros: Good Gb/$ Ratio, Can Hold up High amount of Data
    Cons: Slow, Tape Drive Expensive

    DVD
    Pro: FAST, Reliable (Not Influenced By EM or Heat/Humidity), Drive is Cheaper
    Cons: Expensive Media, Small amount of DATA.


    I think You can do two things:
    1. Reduce your data size
    2. Try thinking about Larger HDD (HDD's offer best Data Per $ ratio).
    With 500$ you can buy something like 3-4 120GB Seagate (or any other) HDD.

    Just Make upi your mind:
    Backup/Archive = Tape
    Removable Media = DVD
    Mass Storage Device / Removable Media (Yes I have External USB case) = HDD


    Cheers,
    Gabriel
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  5. #5
    Tech-To-Tech Mod kato2274's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel
    Hello,

    2. Try thinking about Larger HDD (HDD's offer best Data Per $ ratio).
    With 500$ you can buy something like 3-4 120GB Seagate (or any other) HDD.
    this is a really good point. I just looked and 120GB drives are $78 at newegg. purchase 4 of these along with a raid controller card (probably about $25-$40) and set up a RAID 0+1 and you've got 240GB of additional storage that is faster to access than a single drive and redundant because it's mirrored. . . . and you haven't spent $400.

    I can't see playing anything off tape directly. . . you'd have to restore first then play. and I could see lot's of dvds being a bit of a pain, though if properly indexed and stored it really wouldn't be bad.

    I like the hard drive idea.

    newegg also has samsung 160GB Hard Drives with 3 year warranty for $99.
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  6. #6
    Geezer confus-ed's Avatar
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    ...& you can of course make it all removable by buying hard disk caddys which are about $10-15 each ...

    p.s buy sata not pata , think 'future proof' (the cost of a sata controller card is about the same as an additional ide/pata one- from $30 upwards)

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    I can't see playing anything off tape directly. . . you'd have to restore first then play.
    I can do this with my current tape drive using 1Safe backup software, it allows drive letter access to tape drives so you can open and save files to tape from any software just like if it was a hard drive, this is what made me buy my last tape drive since it adds a tremendous amount of functionality.

    I know I could get bigger hard drives in raid 0 (I already have a raid 0 40gb*2 80gb total) but I want to have a backup copy of every file since before I got my tape drive I got a virus that deleted all my c: 3 times in 3 years, but now since I have my tape drive I can easily restore all my data whever I loose files due to any reason.

    DVD
    Pro: FAST, Reliable
    I dont agree with this, sure the access time is way faster, but the tape drive is more than twice the speed once it finds the file on the tape. I dont mind waiting 1-2 minutes for a 2 hour movie to start playing while the drive finds it on the tape. Also DVDs can get scratched easily and Im pretty sure the error rate is much much less on tape drives than DVDs.

    Does anyonw have a Sony AIT? About how long does it take to fully fast foward/rewind a tape (in other words, whats the longest I'd have to wait for it to find a file)? My current tape drive can take maybe 5 minutes if I want a file thats at the end of the tape, but the sony uses a shorter tape and 3 tiems faster FF/REW speed so it must be pretty fast.

    Thanks
    Last edited by ClickHere2Surf.com; January 28th, 2004 at 09:27 AM.

  8. #8
    Tech-To-Tech Mod kato2274's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClickHere2Surf.com
    I can do this with my current tape drive using 1Safe backup software, it allows drive letter access to tape drives so you can open and save files to tape from any software, this is what made me buy my mlast tape drive since it adds a tremendous amount of functionality.
    I know tape applications give drive letter access but I've been less than impressed with their performance as far as seek times read speed etc. maybe things are faster now then when I had experience with this stuff. but I highyl doubt it comes anywhere close to the speed of a hard drive or DVD-R.
    Quote Originally Posted by ClickHere2Surf.com
    I know I could get bigger hard drives in raid 0 (I already have a raid 0 40gb*2 80gb total) but I want to have a backup copy of every file since before I got my tape drive I got a virus that deleted all my c: 3 times in 3 years, but now since I have my tape drive I can easily restore all my data whever I loose files due to any reason.
    which is why if you read the post I reccomended raid 0+1 which is a stripe and a mirror of that stripe giving you both increased speed and also redundancy with mirrored backups. and as far as viruses / OS corruptions etc. your files would be on a seperate volume completely away from your OS.

    I'd probably even go so far as to build a meagerly powered linux box to run all this as NAS connected via 100mps cat5 . . . but that's just me

    Quote Originally Posted by ClickHere2Surf.com
    Does anyonw have a Sony AIT? About how long does it take to fully fast foward/rewind a tape (in other words, whats the longest I'd have to wait for it to find a file)? My current tape drive can take maybe 5 minutes if I want a file thats at the end of the tape, but the sony uses a shorter tape and 3 tiems faster FF/REW speed so it must be pretty fast.

    Thanks
    even at 3X faster than five minutes that's still 1.66 minutes. far longer than I'd be willing to wait. my network drive of mp3s takes about 10-15 seconds to open up (sometimes not always) through explorer over the network and I think that's too long.
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  9. #9
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    but I highyl doubt it comes anywhere close to the speed of a hard drive or DVD-R.
    The fastest DVD-RWs are currently only 2x for DVD-RW, or about 2.5MB/Sec, the sony tape drive im looking at is 4mbps to 10.4mbps. Sure it might take 40 seconds to find the file vs a fraction of a second with the DVD, but I would use it for movie files in the 1-6GB range, so waiting a few seconds for it to start playing a movie is acceptable.

    which is why if you read the post I reccomended raid 0+1 which is a stripe and a mirror of that stripe giving you both increased speed and also redundancy with mirrored backups. and as far as viruses / OS corruptions etc. your files would be on a seperate volume completely away from your OS.
    A RAID 1 wont protect from viruses, it will just duplicate the damage on the backup, all it would protect from is a hard drive crash, and tape drives are a seperate volume away from the system.

    even at 3X faster than five minutes that's still 1.66 minutes. far longer than I'd be willing to wait. my network drive of mp3s takes about 10-15 seconds to open up (sometimes not always) through explorer over the network and I think that's too long.
    Of course if this was for 2-5 minute mp3s it would be totally unacceptable to wait a up to minute betweeneach track, but this would be for 2 hour movies, I can wait 2 minutes for it to find the movie, it lets me time to make the popcorn , after that the movie would play just like from any other fast drive.

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    Anyway, access time isnt a problem, I'd like to know if anyone has used sony AITs and would you recommend them? Are there any other drives that are 30GB uncompressed but around $500, dont tell me to search on google I looked for hours yesterday and cant seem to find any drives below $600-700. I dont mind getting it used, are there sites besides ebay that would sell used ones?

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Oh, another thing, these Sony AITs seem to have a compression CPU onboard to handlethe compression, I think the drive I have does it by software, and since most of my files are already compressed (mpeg) it actually makes them 30%-40% bigger. Would the sony be actually able to compress mpeg files with its better comrpession algorithms (I know it wouldnt be by much since its already hgihly compressed)?

  12. #12
    Registered User Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClickHere2Surf.com
    ....I'd like to know if anyone has used sony AITs and would you recommend them?...
    We did Used Sony AIT Drives in My company as a Backup Device. YES it was FAST (Using SCSI), YES It is a reliable media.
    - BUT -
    As far as that goes They are far more expensive (Both Media and Drive) and Pain in the A$$ to fix. Eventually we kicked the AIT and brought DLT Drives instead.
    Try Thinking on HDD as A Removable Media Device.
    Keep all your files on the HDD which is not Connected to any computer and Stored in a safe place (Not hot and no EM). This Still seems to me as the best sollution for you.

    I sure hope I helped you and not confus-ed { } you more,
    Gabriel
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  13. #13
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    They are far more expensive (Both Media and Drive)
    I found the media to be very cheap at $39/35GB native, my current tapes are the same price for 15GB.

    Pain in the A$$ to fix
    What do you mean by fix? If they are reliable why would they need fixing?

    Wouldnt a HD be complelety killed if it was accidentaly dropped? I have dropped my ADR tapes a few times and never had a problem. I'd preferr dropping a $39 tape that will survive the drop then dropping a $100 harddrive that will turn into a paper weight.

    Also, arent tape drives much more reliable? I dont know if I mentioned it but it will obviously be used as a daily backup too, not only to store movies.

  14. #14
    Tech-To-Tech Mod kato2274's Avatar
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    get the tape drive. your mind is obviously made up . . . . I'm sure it'll be great.

    have fun.

    PS even reliable stuff breaks sometimes . . . so if you buy it save some extra money and buy it new with a warranty.

    I can think of better ways to spend $600-$700 . . . . but . . . it's not my money. . . .
    Nonsense prevails, modesty fails
    Grace and virtue turn into stupidity - E. Costello

  15. #15
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    I would get it used for $300-400, I wouldnt pay $600-700 on a 35GB tape drive.

    Id still like to know if there are cheaper (comparing MSRPs) drives with 30GB native capacity. Also, are there other backup programs than 1Safe that assign a drive letter to tape drives?

    Thanks

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