Mistreatment of Iraqi Prisoners

[ilovetheusers]

This is the 1st I've heard of this - been out of it the last few days.Still shocked to not see a post about it here.

I'm shocked and apalled at this behavior and it's just a damn bad thing and those responsable should be put in prison themselves IMHO. What's your take on it and what do you think should happen to the people that did this?




Iraqi Recounts Hours of Abuse by U.S. Troops
By IAN FISHER

Published: May 5, 2004


AGHDAD, Iraq, May 4 — The shame is so deep that Hayder Sabbar Abd says he feels that he cannot move back to his old neighborhood. He would prefer not even to stay in Iraq. But now the entire world has seen the pictures, which Mr. Abd looked at yet again on Tuesday, pointing out the key figures, starting with three American soldiers wearing big smiles for the camera.

"That is Joiner," he said, pointing to one male soldier in glasses, a black hat and blue rubber gloves. His arms were crossed over a stack of naked and hooded Iraqi prisoners.

"That is Miss Maya," he said, pointing to a young woman's fresh face poking up over the same pile.

He gazed down at another picture. In it, a second female soldier flashed a "thumbs up" and pointed with her other hand at the genitals of a man wearing nothing but a black hood, his fingers laced on top of his head. He did not know her name. But the small scars on the torso left little doubt about the identity of the naked prisoner.

"That is me," he said, and he tapped his own hooded, slightly hunched image.

Mr. Abd, 34, is at the center of an explosive scandal over American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, but he remained calm in a detailed, two-hour account of his time at the fearsome Abu Ghraib prison. He claimed that he was never interrogated, and never charged with a crime. Officials at the prison said Tuesday that they could not comment on his case.

In November, when the abuse took place, few Shiite Muslims like Mr. Abd were carrying out attacks against United States forces. Nearly all the attacks were attributed to forces loyal to Saddam Hussein, mostly Sunni Muslims, and fighters from other Muslim countries.

"The truth is we were not terrorists," he said. "We were not insurgents. We were just ordinary people. And American intelligence knew this."

Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect.

"Most of the time, they wouldn't even say, `Shut up,' " he said.

That changed in November — he does not know the exact date — when punishment for a prisoner fight at Abu Ghraib degenerated into torture. That night, he said, he and six other inmates were beaten, stripped naked (a particularly deep humiliation in the Arab world), forced to pile on top of one another, to straddle one another's backs naked, to simulate oral sex. American guards wrote words like "rapist" on their skin with Magic Marker, he said.

The curiosity, through much of the ordeal, was the camera. It was a detail he mentioned repeatedly as he recalled being forced against a wall and ordered by the Arabic translator to masturbate as he looked at one of the female guards.

"She was laughing, and she put her hands on her breasts," Mr. Abd said. "Of course, I couldn't do it. I told them that I couldn't, so they beat me in the stomach, and I fell to the ground. The translator said, `Do it! Do it! It's better than being beaten.' I said, `How can I do it?' So I put my hand on my penis, just pretending."

All the while, he said, the flash of the camera kept illuminating the dim room that once held prisoners of Mr. Hussein, recording images that have infuriated the Arab world and badly sullied America's image in a country more willing these days to think the worst of its occupiers.

"It was humiliating," Mr. Abd said in Arabic through an interpreter. "We did not think that we would survive. All of us believed we would be killed and not get out alive."

Though the pictures tell their own story, the details of Mr. Abd's account could not be verified. But a military official here said the prisoner number that Mr. Abd gave, 13077, matched that of a former prisoner who submitted a sworn statement alleging abuse by American soldiers. He also said the man's account was consistent with those verified by a military investigator. Several episodes that Mr. Abd recounted also matched, in some detail, testimony given by other American soldiers horrified by what they saw.



There's more to this see the related flash animation article.

Articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/in...st/05INMA.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/in...D-ABUS.html?hp

Need a password to see it:
http://www.bugmenot.com

[freddy]

THE **** IS HITTIN THE FAN IN THE UK

http://www.itv.com/news/1871137.html

just on the news pearse morgon editer of "the mirror" newspaper has been ordered to hand over 20 unpublished photos , and appear in front of a goverment select committee,

most of the soldiers "involved" are from the barracks in my home town,


has someone fabricated the pictures,

[NooNoo]

I don't think this is the first report. I doubt it will be the last.

[jitBob]

I don't think this is the first report. I doubt it will be the last.

I don't think it will be the last either. Bush is on arabic tv today to try and do damage control. Unfortunately in war there is an overpowering desire to get information and save your soldiers lifes. Understandable but a very hard line to toe none the less.

[Ya_know]

First of all, I sincerely hope that this is an isolated problem, and that this doesn’t depict the normal activity in the camps. I for one am appalled. The one guy that pleaded not guilty for reasons of being poorly informed of his duties…come on man! Someone should do the same sh!t to him, and put his picture all over the world.

These bad apples appear to be young punks that were left with a great responsibility to man this prison; they were not supervised, and lacked the moral fiber to be involved in such a precarious position of power. It’s one thing to interrogate a prisoner as a member of the intelligence community, and use proven tactics to weaken the fortitude of a prisoner to divulge vital information; some things have to be done. But to degrade and demoralize in this manor is not proper discipline, even if the prisoners were out of hand, i.e. a riot or uprising. You beat them if they are a physical threat, and lock them up to keep them from being a threat. You don’t do this crap.

I am shocked to see pictures of them willfully committing these crimes of evil, and recording the incidences. I think it is fitting, these dumb@$$es deserve everything that they get nailed with, and then some.

As if our efforts over there weren’t already dubious enough…

[jitBob]

... As if our efforts over there weren’t already dubious enough…

Wow. This coming from a faithfull Bush supporter!

[NooNoo]

Bush is on arabic tv today to try and do damage control.

umm Bush and damage control in the same sentence....

[jitBob]

umm Bush and damage control in the same sentence....

Hey, I did say "try".

[Ya_know]

Wow. This coming from a faithfull Bush supporter!

Don’t get me wrong, I still support the war 100%, the problem is that popular opinion is on the other side of the fence, I know that, and something like this makes it all that much harder to swallow for those that are against the war in general. Being for the war but against these atrocities is my point, don’t you evea’ be mistaken.

And you’re still a Jit!

[TripleRLtd]

As if our efforts over there weren’t already dubious enough…

And, not just here, but EVERYwhere. Geesh, WE, and I mean we ALL come out looking like monsters to the rest of world. Or, should I say evil monsters. How freeking pathetic these "soldiers" are....

[Escape_Driver]

While I'm no fan of Bush I think this is just a few rotten apples... I do not think that all US Soliders are like that... I fact most I would bet are pissed off about this... But I wonder if the Hostages are getting good treatment ???

[Ya_know]

And, not just here, but EVERYwhere. Geesh, WE, and I mean we ALL come out looking like monsters to the rest of world. Or, should I say evil monsters. How freeking pathetic these "soldiers" are....

Here is the problem; you have a potentially isolated incident, a bias press corps, an election year, and war that is quickly losing support from the masses. Fact is, it is something that could have been handled better by the press. We are doing so much over there to clear the way for them to run there own country, and for us to get the hell out. The problem is the insurgency is actually perpetuating our "occupation", and the soldiers are growing restless.

The Iraqis need to police their own streets, but they are getting killed more than our own troops. So until we can grant them some safety, we are forced to stay.

It sure doesn’t help when our own senators go over to the other side and show their lack of support, in the same manor Jane Fonda was labeled a traitor years ago…

Seen this sh!t::: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38231

[jaeger]

Seen this sh!t::: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38231

Yeah, Hillary isn't ever going to run for President. She'd be stomped out at convention level. Government has been screwed up since before I was born, but am I actually seeing the beginning of the end here? A adversarial party system has some advantages, but is taking that struggle to other countrys a good idea? Politics make me ill.

Edited to add: Damned distractions, the soldiers involved need to be disciplined and this needs to be investigated. Court martials, dishonorable discharges, prison time, whatever is necessary. These asshats have not only made stabilizing Iraq that much harder, but they have also endangered the frontline soldiers more than before.

[amyb]

This is the 1st I've heard of this - been out of it the last few days.Still shocked to not see a post about it here.

I'm shocked and apalled at this behavior and it's just a damn bad thing and those responsable should be put in prison themselves IMHO. What's your take on it and what do you think should happen to the people that did this?




Iraqi Recounts Hours of Abuse by U.S. Troops
By IAN FISHER

Published: May 5, 2004


AGHDAD, Iraq, May 4 — The shame is so deep that Hayder Sabbar Abd says he feels that he cannot move back to his old neighborhood. He would prefer not even to stay in Iraq. But now the entire world has seen the pictures, which Mr. Abd looked at yet again on Tuesday, pointing out the key figures, starting with three American soldiers wearing big smiles for the camera.

"That is Joiner," he said, pointing to one male soldier in glasses, a black hat and blue rubber gloves. His arms were crossed over a stack of naked and hooded Iraqi prisoners.

"That is Miss Maya," he said, pointing to a young woman's fresh face poking up over the same pile.

He gazed down at another picture. In it, a second female soldier flashed a "thumbs up" and pointed with her other hand at the genitals of a man wearing nothing but a black hood, his fingers laced on top of his head. He did not know her name. But the small scars on the torso left little doubt about the identity of the naked prisoner.

"That is me," he said, and he tapped his own hooded, slightly hunched image.

Mr. Abd, 34, is at the center of an explosive scandal over American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, but he remained calm in a detailed, two-hour account of his time at the fearsome Abu Ghraib prison. He claimed that he was never interrogated, and never charged with a crime. Officials at the prison said Tuesday that they could not comment on his case.

In November, when the abuse took place, few Shiite Muslims like Mr. Abd were carrying out attacks against United States forces. Nearly all the attacks were attributed to forces loyal to Saddam Hussein, mostly Sunni Muslims, and fighters from other Muslim countries.

"The truth is we were not terrorists," he said. "We were not insurgents. We were just ordinary people. And American intelligence knew this."

Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect.

"Most of the time, they wouldn't even say, `Shut up,' " he said.

That changed in November — he does not know the exact date — when punishment for a prisoner fight at Abu Ghraib degenerated into torture. That night, he said, he and six other inmates were beaten, stripped naked (a particularly deep humiliation in the Arab world), forced to pile on top of one another, to straddle one another's backs naked, to simulate oral sex. American guards wrote words like "rapist" on their skin with Magic Marker, he said.

The curiosity, through much of the ordeal, was the camera. It was a detail he mentioned repeatedly as he recalled being forced against a wall and ordered by the Arabic translator to masturbate as he looked at one of the female guards.

"She was laughing, and she put her hands on her breasts," Mr. Abd said. "Of course, I couldn't do it. I told them that I couldn't, so they beat me in the stomach, and I fell to the ground. The translator said, `Do it! Do it! It's better than being beaten.' I said, `How can I do it?' So I put my hand on my penis, just pretending."

All the while, he said, the flash of the camera kept illuminating the dim room that once held prisoners of Mr. Hussein, recording images that have infuriated the Arab world and badly sullied America's image in a country more willing these days to think the worst of its occupiers.

"It was humiliating," Mr. Abd said in Arabic through an interpreter. "We did not think that we would survive. All of us believed we would be killed and not get out alive."

Though the pictures tell their own story, the details of Mr. Abd's account could not be verified. But a military official here said the prisoner number that Mr. Abd gave, 13077, matched that of a former prisoner who submitted a sworn statement alleging abuse by American soldiers. He also said the man's account was consistent with those verified by a military investigator. Several episodes that Mr. Abd recounted also matched, in some detail, testimony given by other American soldiers horrified by what they saw.



There's more to this see the related flash animation article.

Articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/in...st/05INMA.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/in...D-ABUS.html?hp

Need a password to see it:
http://www.bugmenot.com

I can't beleive those soldiers were stupid enough to pictures of them doing that degrading stuff to the prisoners. Good grief.

[ilovetheusers]

Yeah, Hillary isn't ever going to run for President. She'd be stomped out at convention level.

Hillary and Bill still controll the $$$ of the democratic party and aren't giving up power any time soon. She's a senator now and it's only a precursor to her running in 2008 if Kerry looses. She would be a shoe in for the nomination and could probably win. The majority of women like her and liberals/democrats in general love the Clintons. IMHO if she runs in 208 she'll win hands down over anyone that the republicans run.