Surge protection

**arch0nmyc0n** · June 30th, 2004, 01:57 PM

What is the general concensus here on surge protection power bars? I've recently had a number of computers come in and end up being replaced due to the large number of thunderstorms. It's usually around now this happens. But what's got me a bit worried is the fact that 4 of the machine were on surge protection bars. 2 of them were the "cheap" surge protection bars, and 1 was on an APC 3 year old surge bar, and 1 was on a relatively new APC bar... The latter two are surge bars "specifically for computers and related equipment. Do these things have to be replaced every so often? like once a year just before the start of the T-Storm months maybe? I'm not an expert with electricity or protection from surges. I've been wondering if I should start insisting people change them after a certain length of time. I've also heard that once they've been hit, they don't respond properly anymore. I've also heard that the "Surge protection" light on the new ones is just a guess... Help me dispell any misconceptions about these things so I can offer a better explanation and advice to my customers....

**edball** · June 30th, 2004, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by arch0nmyc0n

What is the general concensus here on surge protection power bars? I've recently had a number of computers come in and end up being replaced due to the large number of thunderstorms. It's usually around now this happens. But what's got me a bit worried is the fact that 4 of the machine were on surge protection bars. 2 of them were the "cheap" surge protection bars, and 1 was on an APC 3 year old surge bar, and 1 was on a relatively new APC bar... The latter two are surge bars "specifically for computers and related equipment. Do these things have to be replaced every so often? like once a year just before the start of the T-Storm months maybe? I'm not an expert with electricity or protection from surges. I've been wondering if I should start insisting people change them after a certain length of time. I've also heard that once they've been hit, they don't respond properly anymore. I've also heard that the "Surge protection" light on the new ones is just a guess... Help me dispell any misconceptions about these things so I can offer a better explanation and advice to my customers....

I've never heard that they could wear out, maybe they could be broken by a big power spike. Somebody told me once that they wouldn't help if lightning hit the line either.

**arch0nmyc0n** · June 30th, 2004, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by edball

I've never heard that they could wear out, maybe they could be broken by a big power spike. Somebody told me once that they wouldn't help if lightning hit the line either.

that would make sense to me... but I've heard the contrary from other "techs" in the area... that's why I'm turning to you guys to set me straight on the subject...

**edball** · June 30th, 2004, 02:19 PM

Power surges occur when something boosts the electrical charge at some point in the power lines. This causes an increase in the electrical potential energy, which can increase the current flowing to your wall outlet. A number of different things can cause this to happen.

The most familiar source is probably lightning, though it's actually one of the least common causes. When lightning strikes near a power line, whether it's underground, in a building or running along poles, the electrical energy can boost electrical pressure by millions of volts. This causes an extremely large power surge that will overpower almost any surge protector. In a lightning storm, you should never rely on your surge protector to save your computer. The best protection is to unplug your computer.

I found this and lots more here.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/surge-protector1.htm

**arch0nmyc0n** · June 30th, 2004, 02:44 PM

perfect.... thanks for the link

**Naxr** · June 30th, 2004, 02:53 PM

The protector could have been hit before, and the user not paid attention to/seen the light going out, signifying that the protection is gone. I think they still work, but if the protection has gone, then it's just a normal four-bar or whatever.

Also, get them to check the documentation that came with it. Mine comes with a guarantee if it takes the surge, but the equipment is still damaged, they'll pay for repair up to a certain price, depending on the model bought.

**geoscomp** · June 30th, 2004, 03:02 PM

Have them check the documentation that comes with the protector as well..look for documentation on something called the clamping voltage. I have seen some protectors where this is around 300 volts..thats the voltage at which the protector dumps to ground (providing you have a properly grounded receptacle). Usually they will only pay warranty money if it is proven the protector did not work as designed..that is, if it is designed to dump at 300 volts, and it does..and your computer is damaged anyway..they won't pay.

The ones I use here in the shop..from sycom I believe..have a clamping voltage of 130 volts.

more info here:

http://www.sycompower.com/tech/faq.php3?faq=8

**amyb** · June 30th, 2004, 04:08 PM

Every little bit helps. We have surge protectors on all our machines, plus battery backups (for our servers, especially).

**Diver01** · June 30th, 2004, 04:24 PM

I personally do not use the Power Bars on my home equipment. I have an APC Backup 650.

A little more money but I sleep much better at night knowing its there.

**Quattro** · June 30th, 2004, 08:33 PM

We only gave warranty on our machines if the client had a properly grounded outlet and a UPS...this was in Honduras where power problems are on the daily menu. I would guess that the infrastructure in the USA is in better shape :-) and a surge suppressor would be enough.
Make sure they get a ups with voltage regulator built in. More money but longer computer live.

Ciao

**ShadowWynd** · June 30th, 2004, 10:12 PM

I am an APC user myself - my PC has a battery UPS, some of the lesser PCs on the network just have the APC surge strip.

A problem with protecting computers against surge damage is that you have to cover all the bases - there are a lot of ways a surge can enter a system and not even bother with the incoming power. Modems and telephone lines are often not protected as well as power lines; our store replaces probably about a dozen modems after every major storm. Occasionally the surge comes in over the phone line and kills the motherboard, or the RAM - even though the power was protected with a surge strip.

Long stretches of network cable will pick up a pulse wave from lightning that can kill NICs or network gear. If a surge hits anything on the network, the surge can propagate through the network lines and kill other devices. I had a computer (not on a surge protector) that had a surge, killed the NIC and went on the fry the switch (which was on a surge protector). I have seen filters specifically designed for networks to filter out surges on the network lines.

Lightning is a wild card - some products may help against a lightning strike, but nothing is guaranteed to be effective. Lightning "rewrites" the rules concerning electrical behavior - air, plastic, rubber, ceramics - everything becomes a conductor. This allows lightning to jump between wires, or through walls, or jump over the protection circuitry in a surge suppressor.

**NooNoo** · July 1st, 2004, 03:47 AM

Often there is no little light to say the surge protection was already overloaded... you have to visually inspect it. (little coil thingy that gets busted much the same way as a fuse does).

**hudsonsmith** · July 1st, 2004, 09:34 AM

I've always been a big fan of the Tripp-Lite Isobar series. http://www.tripplite.com/products/su...ors/isobar.cfm (see http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=106 for example)

**Reddman** · July 1st, 2004, 04:27 PM

Surges can be devistating to a machine, but that's only half of the story.

Brownouts (low voltage) can be just as disasterous. According to a study from Bell Labs, over 87% of power problems are sags or brownouts. Over time, brownouts or sags in voltage can degrade component life.

In my experience, I've had less software errors, hardware failures and more stability when I use a UPS. It doesn't have to be a huge APC UPS that will run your system for 3 hours after loss of power.

I have a basic Belkin UPS that will power my system for about 5 minutes, which is plenty of time to shut it down. More importantly, the Belkin UPS provides protection against brownouts, which are noticeable when the washing machine or refrigerator kick-on. In fact, there are times when I can hear the Belkin switch to battery power and the lights haven't flickered at all.

So my recommendation is to ditch the surge strips and put your systems on a UPS!

My two cents...

-Redd

***DonJ*** · July 1st, 2004, 05:04 PM

There have been a lot of comments about using a full-blown UPS system and not just surge protector bars. I must concur here. Of course, it all depends on just how important your systems are and how deep your pockets (or the customer's pockets) are. Also, but what type of data are we talking about? Is it just for games or is somebody's payroll dependant on this?

We highly recommend APC. They have a product selector online based on required amperage. Really makes it nice.

Typically, a 750 KVA will suffice for a PC system which includes the monitor. Or, a 1300 KVA for a fully loaded server rack.

Also, highly recommend NOT connecting a laserjet printer to the same UPS as your system. When they kick in, they draw huge amounts of current taking away from your main system. A deskjet or inkjet printer should be OK.

Of course, all of your UPS's need to be on a dedicated line (it's own circuit breaker) and dedicated ground lines. All of which needs to be installed by a qualified electrician. I know, it can get costly but again, how important is this system?