Booting from a CGA adaptor in a ISA slot
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Thread: Booting from a CGA adaptor in a ISA slot

  1. #1
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    Booting from a CGA adaptor in a ISA slot

    Hi all,

    I bought a GITOX3 motherboard as replacement for a pentium 1 board.
    I use a PG-641/1281 in an ISA slot on this motherboard.
    The PG-641/1281 is a Professional Graphics Adaptor made in 1985 by Matrox.
    This motherboard doesn't recognize the PG-641 at al
    Putting it back in the Pentium 1 it works.
    When I put the onboard VGA on enable, the motherboard boots with the onboard VGA without concerning about the PG-641.
    When I put the onboard VGA on disable, the system seems to boot but I don’t see anything on the screen attached to the PG-641.
    No beeps saying “Oh my god! There is no video card, let me beep to the user that I cant communicate with the user”;-)
    By the way, this is also the case with no display adaptor in the system and the onboard on disable.
    Seems a bit strange to me.
    The only thing I know about this PG-641 is, that it presents itself as a plain old CGA card.
    Also when I put a plain old CGA card in an ISA slot, I get the same result.
    So I think it has something to do with the BIOS on the ITOX board.
    I boot with dos.
    And then there is some software called TSX32 that wants to see this PG-641/1281.
    The graphic part of the software that is provided with our machine is specifically written for this PG-641.
    The rest of the cards is also ISA.
    We need to upgrade to a newer version of the controlling software and that requires a new faster pc.
    There is no update available to work with other graphic cards.

    Who has an answer?

    Willie

  2. #2
    Driver Terrier NooNoo's Avatar
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    Welcome to Windrivers Willie..

    Are you honestly saying that this tsx32 software can only work with this 19 year old graphics card?
    Never, ever approach a computer saying or even thinking "I will just do this quickly."

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    Quote Originally Posted by NooNoo
    Welcome to Windrivers Willie..

    Are you honestly saying that this tsx32 software can only work with this 19 year old graphics card?
    This software is part of a package for controlling a Ion Implanter.
    We bought this implanter 3 Years ago.
    I have no info on this software and I am not able to alter it.
    I have to upgrade to a newer level of this software and therefore I need a faster PC.
    The supplier of this implanter has a simple answer.
    Buy our new PC for USD 10000 provided and everything works fine.
    So. Yes I need to use this software and consequently also this prehistoric ISA card.
    The only thing I want know is how do I get this mobo to boot with a old CGA card in a ISA slot.

  4. #4
    Driver Terrier NooNoo's Avatar
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    Does the bios have an option for changing the boot from agp/pci/isa?
    And if it's a new version of the software, then doesn't it support newer graphics cards?
    Never, ever approach a computer saying or even thinking "I will just do this quickly."

  5. #5
    Registered User Stalemate's Avatar
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    Can you give us the software's name?

    We'll be able to tell you what graphics cards are compatible with it.

    Most links I googled mention CAD applications.


    The 641/1281 cards had between 515 Kb and 1.5 Mb of memory. Even for a DOS application, that's not a whole lot of room to play with.


    Matrox has some PG utilities here: http://www.matrox.com/imaging/suppor...oad/pg_zip.cfm

    Check out the last entry on that page.
    Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by NooNoo
    Does the bios have an option for changing the boot from agp/pci/isa?
    And if it's a new version of the software, then doesn't it support newer graphics cards?

    No. I only can chose between PCI and AGP.
    Both options make no difference for my problem.
    Also the software upgrade is based on the PG-641.
    There is simply no way to get around the PG-641.
    The company that made the machine that is controlled by this software, is using now a replacement card of the PG-641 made by someone else and this is also an ISA card that functions with the same software release.
    It also presents itself as an CGA card during boot.
    The only difference is that there is no information at all to find, because its there own development with a vendor type number.
    But for my problem its al the same.
    I only want a way to let my ITOX3 mobo to boot with an CGA card in an ISA slot.
    If that works, the rest will work also. I am confident about that.

    Replay on the comments from ADEPT:

    Its no problem of drivers or applications.
    The mobo simply refuses to find the CGA card in the ISA slot.
    Even if I boot with the onboard VGA enabled and boot with WIN 98se, Windows cant find this card to.
    It simply doesn’t exist for the system.
    If I boot with MSDOS6.22 with the onboard VGA enabled, the utilities that You mention cant find the card also.

    I think it’s a problem with the bios.
    I think they simply don’t look anymore at old style video cards.
    After all. Who wants to boot with an CGA card in an ISA slot?
    Well. I do:-(

  7. #7
    Driver Terrier NooNoo's Avatar
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    private message our resident mobo expert Ruslan with this thread, get his input.
    Never, ever approach a computer saying or even thinking "I will just do this quickly."

  8. #8
    Registered User hudsonsmith's Avatar
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    I would complain as loudly as possible to the vendor. Forcing one to purchase a $10,000 PC to support a product seems particularly egregious. They need to join the real world and write software that works with standard computers.
    Probability factor of one to one...we have normality, I repeat we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem.

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    Registered User Stalemate's Avatar
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    And it's not like there is only one provider of Ion Implanter software.

    I googled quite a few of them researching this.
    Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

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    I belive you can not boot with cga card in that motherboard.

    Its ISA port is not designed to support a graphics card.

    You must use other motherboard.

    Or you can use The VGA CARD!!!

    There can be a posibility, the old software, that works with CGA adapter, can works on VGA adapter, because I remember the old games VGA was compatible with CGA.

    BUT your model of CGA uses specific adress to activate it, so can be incompatible with the VGA without a modification.

    In the past I redesign a driver for a old video card, that wasn´t suported by the software, changing some adress in the "driver" and works with a new graphics card.

    I belive It can works in your case...


    luck!

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    how about dual video

    You need a graphics adapter to boot the system in the PCI or AGP slot so have on in there and leave the CGA card in the ISA slot and connect a monitor to each. This should allow your program to access CGA card and allow your system to boot. It might work.

    -neKur0


    Quote Originally Posted by supertech69
    I belive you can not boot with cga card in that motherboard.

    Its ISA port is not designed to support a graphics card.

    You must use other motherboard.

    Or you can use The VGA CARD!!!

    There can be a posibility, the old software, that works with CGA adapter, can works on VGA adapter, because I remember the old games VGA was compatible with CGA.

    BUT your model of CGA uses specific adress to activate it, so can be incompatible with the VGA without a modification.

    In the past I redesign a driver for a old video card, that wasn´t suported by the software, changing some adress in the "driver" and works with a new graphics card.

    I belive It can works in your case...


    luck!

  12. #12
    Registered User Shalafi's Avatar
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    How about just getting another older PC to replace the now defunct one? This seems like the easiest and cheapest route for you to take. It doesnt sound like you need any kind of high-performing monster gaming PC to do what youre wanting accomplish, considering the age of the graphics adapter.

    Hop on ebay, find an old Dell or IBM 486 machine (or anything else you might consider a solid machine)and call it a day. If this were a hobby endeavor, I could see burning the cranial calories on forcing it to work with what you have. Since it appears to be a business process were talking about, spend the $25 and get an old machine that can actually see the CGA adapter and move on with life.

    Ebay is just one option. I know in my town its not difficult to go to a Salvation Army or Goodwill that has a table full of 286/386/486 machines. Pawn shops, and if you have them, recycled PC shops are also good candidates for locating an acceptable machine for the task.

    Good luck,
    Shal
    Common sense, isn't...

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    Quote Originally Posted by a d e p t
    And it's not like there is only one provider of Ion Implanter software.

    I googled quite a few of them researching this.

    What do they research?

  14. #14
    Registered User arch0nmyc0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekur0
    You need a graphics adapter to boot the system in the PCI or AGP slot so have on in there and leave the CGA card in the ISA slot and connect a monitor to each. This should allow your program to access CGA card and allow your system to boot. It might work.

    -neKur0
    $10,000 USD for an Ion Cannon??? Sweet...

    OH...I misread that... :P

    well I agree with nekur0 here... try running it with dual video cards and see what happens?...

    Edit: I forgot to mention my reasoning. At an old job we had an old zenith 8mhz machine that ran our phone system.. I had to upgrade when the HD died (which it ran flawlessly for approx 12 years...) and the phone software required specific cards which was ISA... I had to put another vid card in so it would boot and the program would access the ISA card... now that program was specifically setup for that card... is yours?
    Last edited by arch0nmyc0n; July 9th, 2004 at 02:49 PM.
    "We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men." -- Monsignor; The Boondock Saints.

  15. #15
    Registered User Stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Peters
    What do they research?

    What I meant was that when I used the search string "ion implanter software" on Google, a lot of entries were returned.
    Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

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