motorcycle battery help

[freddy]

my problem ,if anyone has come across the same , refers to a 50 yr
bantam motorcycle i own,

the bike is a BSA bantam d3 with the later d10/d14 wipac altenator,
and has been modded to 12v ,,this mod is a common on UK old bikes as
most of you will know,,,and concists of linking 2 sets of coils
together ,,and then running thru a rectifier and a zenner
diode ,,,here is a link with explaiation for anyone not familiar
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/graham_...12v_conv.shtml ,,every thing went to plan and 2.5 ah
battery was put in the toolbox ,,,i keep blowing bulbs ,,,so
suspecting a faulty zenner ,,i replaced it by an expensive electronic
module ,,,,still the same probs.

when i get a reading from the battery it is 16v upward ,,yet when i
change to another battery in it drops to 13 +- ,,,when i put the
(suspect) battery on a "streetwize" 300mh charger it hapily rises to
16v ,,,,yet the second battery regulates itself at 13-14v??

i have charged (suspect) battery on a larger charger ,,in the
past ,,,,have i damaged it ???? ,,,

anyone with any thoughts ,,,



PS it is my 50th birthday today and a "young" policeman on a BMW bike
stopped me ,,to look at the bike ,,,,he called me "sonny" ,,,bet my
kids are older than him!


thanks

alan

[Archer]

Rather an odd one Freddy looks like its gained an extra cell from somewhere can you test then individually or it it all encased?

[freddy]

Rather an odd one Freddy looks like its gained an extra cell from somewhere can you test then individually or it it all encased?

i am on another site at the moment discussing it (bsa site) look @ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bsa/ ,, u should get access ,,,no it is a sealed battery do a google for ybl 2.5 ,,,as u can see its only small ,,,and i can,t return it coz i had to cut the leads to fit aquick release plug/skt ,,,

keep the thoughts comming

alan

[imaeditedbysowulo]

It sounds like the battery is hosed. It's typical for a battery to run a little high, but 16-17 is a bit much. I wonder if it has affected the amount of amps it's able to push.

[freddy]

It sounds like the battery is hosed. It's typical for a battery to run a little high, but 16-17 is a bit much. I wonder if it has affected the amount of amps it's able to push.

in a bsa forum i go to , i asked the same question as here ,,,a guy asked about the regulator ,,,i will copy/ paste this ,,,,tiz quicker

> What reading do you get when the suspect battery is not connected
> Richard


hi richard ,,,the voltage reg/rectifier is one from paul goff ,,
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm and clearly says to
use with a battery ,,as i had a battery on the bike ,,i went with
this system ,instead of the(more expensive) boyer black box ,,,this
reg will not start the bike without a battery ,,,and kicks back
(nastily) with a capacitor in the circit ,,due to low voltage

i am reluctant to damage it by unpluggin the battery ,, note that a
*ap battery ,,7ah charges nicely at at fast tickover shows 12-
13v ,,,whereas the small battery rushes upto 16+ volts ,,,

just plugged in the "streetwise" charger and with nothing connected
it reads 13.57 ,,,but when u plug the (suspect) battery in the
reading goes up to 15.5 volts..if i flatten the battery completly
(with a bulb) ,,and recharge it ,,it will go above 16v

note that the (larger) *ap battery charges ,,, but the charger may be
a bit small for it ,,,the best i can see is just above 12v ,,,which
is great! ,, and on the bike i can 12-13v ! great! ,,,

looks like i have damaged the small battery ,,,not sure how?

and yes there is electrolite in it


alan

[Archer]

As you suspect Freddy it looks like your large trickle charger is providing to much amperage for the small battery and buckled the internal plates.Whats the manufacturers recommended charging rate as opposed to what you used?

[freddy]

As you suspect Freddy it looks like your large trickle charger is providing to much amperage for the small battery and buckled the internal plates.Whats the manufacturers recommended charging rate as opposed to what you used?

yes i did charge it a couple of times using a "car" battery charger ,,,note the rec/reg fitted now is a universal ,,with no min/max quoted ,,,

the battery i am using (the suspect one) is a small one , hidden in a toolbox ,,ydl 2.5 ,,,rated at 2.5 ah



the suggested charging rate by charger is 2.5 divided by 10 = 250ma ,,, for 10 hrs ,,,about the smallest universal batery charger available is ,,,



this is rated at 300ma ,,,,

so to charge a battery fully ,,u just workout ah /time ie a 6 ah battery would be 20hrs @ 300ma ,,,


the reg on the bike gives a totaly controlled 14.4v MAX ,,,so in theory ,,it cannot overcharge ,,,as stated before ,,i am watching a 300ma charger that gives out 13.3v ,,sat here with a battery on it reading 16.5v ??????????????? ,,,,but when i put on a 3/4 charged 6ah battery ,,,,i am lucky to see above 12v ,,,,,which is correct.


i am just prayin that if i buy a new one ,,,this wont happen again.


now i am happy ,,,

been buying bits and bats for my m/cycle before i park it up for the winter, needed a ew kick start , the splines have gone! and the petrol tank is leaking , i have tried 3 times to seal it ,,,but no joy!

have bought those two on www.ebay.co.uk

item 7919171642 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7919171642&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWN:IT

and item 7918517177 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7918517177&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWN:IT this one is rare ,,,

i am happy now ,,,,pitty i spent up all my money on dirty beer last night



alan

[Archer]

I passed one of a similar age with a sidecar attached today near snake pass not sure what make/model it was but yours came to mind when I saw it.I thought perhaps youd upgraded your system

BTW have you looked at the Oxford Oxymiser charger/conditioner range which might suit you for these small batteries?

[freddy]

I passed one of a similar age with a sidecar attached today near snake pass not sure what make/model it was but yours came to mind when I saw it.I thought perhaps youd upgraded your system

no not yet ,,,maybe over the winter ,,,,

here is a picci



note the voltage 16.15v , this is connected to a 13.5v supply ,,,rated at 300ma ,,,,this should not be happening ,,,,when the charger is removed ,,it drops to 13.5v ????????????????//



freddy

[3fingersalute]

It's normal for voltage to fluctuate to a higher voltage when a charge source is applied...... even car batteries read upwards of 17 volts when the alternator is pushing a charge at them.

[Atodini]

It's normal for voltage to fluctuate to a higher voltage when a charge source is applied...... even car batteries read upwards of 17 volts when the alternator is pushing a charge at them.

Freddy,

I agree wholeheartedly with 3fingers here, 17 volts is not unusual, the normal range for 12v systems under charge being between 13.2v (min) to 14.4v (max) recommended. In practices, when necessary, alternators can & do supply more.

Having owned (and raced) Bantams down the years, one thing that remains firmly in my mind is that they do vibrate more than a bit, particularly when tuned... 12v bulbs are able to easily withstand 16+ volts for sustained periods but vibration (especially combined with over voltage) will kill them very quickly indeed... Probably why the Japanese bikes of the period rubber mounted everthing!!

The 175cc versions (D7, D10 & D14/4) were much worse than the 125 (D1 & D3) & 150 (D5) versions in this respect, I owned a 1966 D10 as a ride-to-work bike whilst an apprentice in the late '60's and was forced to carry a pocket full of spare bulbs with me everywhere as they would blow on a regular basis. This was the first non-magneto Bantam, having coil ignition & a battery & rectifier - very similar to your present set-up albeit 6 volt & Wipac alternator, later ones were Lucas.

Putting a D14 engine in a D1 or D3 frame would only exacerbate the problem as the earlier rigid & plunger frames were much lighter in construction than the later swing arm jobs - when racing bantams we never used the earlier frames without loads of reinforcing gussets added as the main loops tended to fracture, most often at the bottom of the "D" by the front engine mount, probably again due to the vibration!

Strangely, from the "pilot's" seat the vibes were never too painful, but but noticeable all the same - only becoming obvious over time as cracks tended to appear on mudguards, side panels etc during normal use, even in completely stock specification (as my old D10 was). My current bike, a 350 Morini Strada, exhibits similar tendencies (without the bulb failures - rubber mountings everywhere!!!)

The zener diode is essential by the way, when converting to 12v, it crowbars the voltage output from the alternator when riding to no more than 14.4 to protect the battery & other electrical bits, especially (in your case) the electronic ignition.

In my racing days (with the Bantam Racing Club, British Formula Club & Bemsee) throughout the '70's, most of us used Lumenition (on a total loss basis, no alternator, just a fresh battery before every race).

There used to be a product called "Petseal" which was excellent for sealing pinholes in petrol tanks but I don't know if its still available....

Enjoy!


John

[Outcoded]

Forget motorcycle batteries and get a small Hawker Genesis battery.

[Archer]

Forget motorcycle batteries and get a small Hawker Genesis battery.

Or an old bicycle dynamo on the front wheel

[jitBob]

Happy Five-O' Freddy!

[MobilePCPhysician]

Can you read the voltage with the "suspect" battery gone? Buy another battery and save yourself a ton of grief..