Automated CD duplicator

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

I'd love to have an automated CD duplicator to burn the CDs of the program I sell. I currently have to sit by my computer inserting one disc in after the other, making sure to keep the blank onces in the blank pile and the copied ones in the copied pile so no one accidentaly gets a blank one. Each time I do this I think "printers automatically pick up one sheet after the other, why can't CD writers automatically pick up one CD after another?".

Well, they can, if you want to pay $1500 or more for one of these:
http://www.microboards.com/new/artic...03041711410698

In my case it's not worth the cost because I don't sell that many on CD, a lot only take the download, but I do sell enough on CD to make me sick of having to sit there putting one CD in after the other for an hour.

So I thought, why are these machines so expensive? Well it's most likely due to extremely low demand. I then was able to find all the parts I needed to build one myself for around $500 US or less, a much more reasonable cost that would be well worth it.

So as I build this I'll post pictures and videos once it can actually move, I expect to have it done in hopefully less than a month, it depends if I run into any problems, I'll also have to write a basic program to control the robotic arm but that shouldn't take very long at all, it's a fairly simple process.

I've got everything planned out as well as a "Plan B" and "Plan C" for the parts I'm not sure how to make, but I am 100% sure either of the 3 plans will work. For example, to detect the height of the CD stack, I'm not sure whether to use:

-An ultrasonic sensor similar to police radars that sends a signal and counts the time it takes to bounce back so it can calculate how tall the CD stack is
Potential problem: I might not be able to get high enough resolution to accurately detect the stack height

-A touch sensor that stops the arm motor once it touches the CDs
Potential problem: Motor might take 1-2 seconds to fully stop from the momentum, causing the arm to "crash" into the CD stack

-Two touch sensors, one to detect when the CD stack is near to slow down the motor to a very slow speed, another sensor to fully stop once it reaches the CD stack, allowing the motor to stop fast and accurately due to it's slower speed
Potential problem: None that I can see

This will be by very far the most impressive and useful machine I will have ever built, I can't wait to have it ready, I'll keep you updated, wish me luck!

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

I want to be able to burn 100 CDs at once, not only 8, not to mention, the cost of building one with 8 drives would be double the cost of my machine that could burn 100 CDs automatically (although one by one).

And printing isnt really a problem, I use the sticker labels, sure I have to put them one by one, but I don't waste 2 minutes between each waiting for the CD to be ready as I have to do by burning them one by one, I can stick them one after the other fairly fast and there's no wasted time between each.

So my solution is half the cost, can handle 100 CDs at once and is fully automated, it will also be standalone meaning it won't slow down my PC while it's working.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

Oh wow, I just saw the link of that printer, that's printer is a real joke, it prints 2 lines of black and white text, very professional...

I think my current labels are just a bit more professional (I sensored the program name so I'm not accused of advertising):

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

Forgot to mention, the 1 to 7 duplicator doesn't solve my problem. What I want is not have to load each disc one by one, that 1 to 7 duplicator doesn't solve that problemat all, each CD must still be loaded one by one, it's just 7 times faster.

[MacGyver]

http://www.storageheaven.com These guys have what you're looking for - but be warned, some of their prices are in the high THOUSANDS of dollars. Their large equipment can run into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Maybe swapping discs manually isn't so bad after all. Or consider contracting out your disc duplication.

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

Thats exactly why I want to build my own for less than $500, just a one time reasonable cost.

[Tekboy]

Good luck on all of that. I like your idea of sending us pictures of your progress, and keep us posted on the sensor thingy.

[Platypus]

If you use some kind of servo controller for the arm actuation, rather than say just switching the supply voltage to the motor with a relay, this will provide dynamic braking and halt the motor within a fraction of a second.

What would you use to pick up the CDs? If you use a small vacuum pump with flexible hoses to suction cups, you should only need a pressure sensor on the line to sense the change in the vacuum when the cups clamp onto the CD or if a CD is dropped. And then a release valve to put the CD down in the tray.

If you are using a Basic program as a control routine, it should only be a matter of coding routines to monitor each function. There should be a motor servo control IC available which would give suitable feedback, including motor current monitoring, which you could use to sense when the CD has been set down in the tray, to provide motor-stall protection in case of a jam, or running out of CDs & trying to pick up the spool etc.

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

Thanks for the suggestions.

For picking up the CDs, I found that inserting two parallel rubbery (for grip) rods into the center hole (like this ||), and then seperating the tops (so they look like this \/) once in the CD hole has a 100% success rate to reliably pick up one disc from a stack. This will be a lot more simple, cheaper and probably more reliable than a vacuum system. Also all the pre-made ones I've seen grab the disc from the center hole, which suggests this is probably the best way of grabbing them.

I still havent decided how I'll control the motors, I want to see how they behave first (especially how fast they stop from full speed once current is cut off).

[Platypus]

I still havent decided how I'll control the motors, I want to see how they behave first (especially how fast they stop from full speed once current is cut off).

Even if you use relays to switch the motors, if you use two relays with changeover contacts, one to select forward/reverse, and another for run/stop, wired so the contacts in the "stop" position not only disconnect the supply but short across the motor terminals, you will get dynamic braking which will halt the motor much quicker than just switching off the current. (This assumes the robotic arm uses regular miniature DC brush motors, eg Mabuchi model motors, rather than stepper motors. This seems to be what you've described so far.)

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

Thanks for the idea, I read about that in electric RC planes some controllers have "air brakes" that esentially short the motor. I'll see if that will give me fast enough stopping, I hadnt even though of using that.

Thanks

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

I've been experimenting that dynamics brake with a pretty big 12 VDC motor I have (it weighs well over 1.5 pounds).

If I spin its shaft with the contacts disconnected it's pretty easy and will actually keep turning for maybe half a second after I give the shaft a spin with my fingers, when it's short-circuited there is a very noticeable resistance, and the faster I try to turn it the more it "brakes", I'm pretty sure this will allow me to fully stop the drive pulley going at 66 RPM nearly instantly.

Thanks for that great idea, I was aware of this braking technique and why it works, but didn't expect as good results as my experiment showed, I was pretty surprised at the result.

[amcfreek]

1 why do you need to pick up a cd you need to copy more then one time?
2 did you ever hear of burning an image file .. aka iso? kinda like anny ftp that has linux has it in form of an iso file.. emaning the whole cd is converted into 1 file . then just open that file again when you need to burn that same cd .. whala no more looking for a cd to burn..
disk juggler will burn multiple cds at the same time
so will nero , rule of thumb use the same type of cd burner .. years ago i bought 3 sony 2 megs cache 8x was going to make it to the big time and be able to burn 3 cds at once , just never got around to doing it..
these sony's were putdated flagships and actually can be forced to burn at more then thier rated speed like takes 6 minuts sometimes less for a cd
tech tip if useing ide cdr's instead of scsi ..
buy a ide serial ata controller card use that for youre hard drives ,, and the cdr's goto the motherboard .. also tip old promise ata33 controller usually support a cdrom so stack 2 of them that is 8 open ide channels . plus the 4 on the motherboard //
all cd writers have to be the same identicle with identicle firmware ... exceptions have been made ..
i have used goldstars and sony's without a problem and they are cheep if you get like last years model ..

fact since i bought a cdr back in 1999 a creative /panasonic 4-2-24 .. i have saved about every thing includeing music on to iso's so i dont have to re read the cd , works great for copy protected crap with all the errorrs that takes 2 hours to read through ..
i know most cdr software supports image files , burning cds from an image file is easey , you dont need the source annymore ... it does however take up 700+ megs of space for one cd but its worth it to walk over and eaven if i run that old panasonic {when i got time} at 4x its almost the same as if i had to read then write the dam thing ..
btw that panasonic owes me nothing and has burned 50 pack's in a weekend ..
btw i have built boxes for people that did nothing but burn cd's for them all weekend long non stop without falure .
and i know professional dj's that will burn the whole setlist to a cd.. thing is they send out like 5 to ten people a weekend because they own a bisness , so every timke they need cds burned they get burned 4 at atime ..

btw i do have like a 48x ricoh cheapey 35 bucks new retail and a 32x sony ,, and about 15 other cdrs here from two speed scsi right on up ..
two speeds are pennance .. 4x i can deal with .. but free was free ...

clone cd was the best for copy protected stuff .. nero crashed alot under 98 but gave excellent features like bootable cd's and hard drive emulation .. nti was about the easiest to use ...
just thought i would throw my 2 cents in for a few rounds ..
also i know ppl with recording studios with cdrom recorders .. real time cd recordings for music ...
hope i helped and btw with teh price of a cache 68 pin controller these days scsi isnt really that much more expensive ..
but personally unless i can afford it i would stick with ide and do a raid car ata serial ide...
cheers..

[ClickHere2Surf.com]

>>>1 why do you need to pick up a cd you need to copy more then one time?

It will never pickup the source CD, the source will remain in a CD-ROM, it will pickup the CD-R discs to automatically make 100 duplicates of the source CD, this machine will be to make high volume copies of the same CD, I sell a computer program and I need hundrerds of CDs made and don't like wasting my time loading them one by one into the burner.

>>>2 did you ever hear of burning an image file .. aka iso? kinda like anny ftp that has linux has it in form of an iso file.. emaning the whole cd is converted into 1 file . then just open that file again when you need to burn that same cd .. whala no more looking for a cd to burn..

It seems you didn't understand or read my original post, I never have to look for an original CD, I always burn the exact same program on the CD, and I do have it in an Easy CD/DVD creator project that even auto-updates when it sees I made a new version pf my program, but my machine will be standalone and not require a computer at all. Just put in the master CD and 100 CD-Rs, start it and a short while later I have 100 copies.

>>>buy a ide serial ata controller card use that for youre hard drives

An IDE Serial ATA controller huh? Did you mean a PCI Serial ATA controller? I already have Serial ATA on my mobo, and having 8 CD-Rs as mentioned in an above reply wont solve my problem at all. What I want is to not have to sit there loading 100 CDs at a time, whether I have to load 1, 8, or 100 at a time, I still have to load them all manually one by one. With my machine I just drop a 100 CD-R stack in it, press a button and the copies are fully automated.

>>>i have saved about every thing includeing music on to iso's so i dont have to re read the cd , works great for copy protected crap

Again this is a program I made myself and sell, so I don't have to worry about copy protection, except including it so others can't.

>>>if i run that old panasonic {when i got time} at 4x its almost the same as if i had to read then write the dam thing ..

My machine will read and write simultaneously, so whether it's reading it from a hard drive or from a 52x CD drive it should be about the same speed.

>>>btw i have built boxes for people that did nothing but burn cd's for them all weekend long non stop without falure .

But these are different CDs being copied and in any case the CD-Rs must still be loaded one by one.

It doesn't seem like you understood what I will use my machine for, again I will always be making copies of the same CD, until I develop another program that sells in large quantities.