I fried 2 Motherboards - Why?

[OnionMan]

This really sucks. 4 Months ago I bought a new computer. One day there was a bad smell and the computer stopped working... Burnt chip on the motherboard (Intel ICH5R chip). Got a new motherboard... Again, burnt chip on the motherboard.

The computer people cant help me because they dont speak english and even if they did I dont think they have good training (im in thailand). So I need your help.

Let me tell you something I think may be the problem. When the computer did work you couldnt touch it or the monitor. Maybe its because the voltage coming out of the walls in thailand is 220V compared to 110V in the US. Maybe that is what fried the chip but shouldnt the power supply take care of that? I was told to get a AC Voltage converter. I was also told that there could be a miswiring in the computer that caused the burn.

The first time it got fried i think i was just using winamp. But the second time it happened when i was plugging the camera into the front USB port.

Motherboard: Asus P4P800-E Deluxe
P4 2.8E

Any advice or speculations would be helpful. If i dont get this sorted I may have to buy a new motherbord every two months.

[Platypus]

When the computer did work you couldnt touch it or the monitor.

Welcome to WinDrivers OnionMan.

Why couldn't you touch the system, did it give you electrical "zaps" (little electric shocks) ?

Using a 220V power supply in the computer should work fine. If there is a 110V PSU in the computer, and you are using a transformer (voltage converter), does the output where you plug the computer in have an earth (three connecting pins)? A transformer may be an "isolating" transformer, designed for double insulated appliances.

Desktop computers are designed to be earthed, if there is no earth it can cause problems like this. The electrical "zap" that happens when you connect peripherals like printer, camera, can do this sort of damage.

the second time it happened when i was plugging the camera into the front USB port.

Even if the computer is properly earthed, peripherals like a camera or printer should not be plugged into a USB or Firewire port while they are already plugged into the electricity supply. Just the camera or printer should be connected to the port first, then plug it into the electricity & power up. Doing it the other way around can damage a chip in the peripheral or computer, like has happened to your ICH5.

It is also possible that the cable connections to your front USB ports may be wired up wrong, as discussed in this topic:

http://forums.windrivers.com/showthr...highlight=ICH5

I hope this helps you identify the likely cause of the problem.

[cdclintdll]

You should check to make sure that the power supply requirement is met. You are in another country with different voltage regulations.
and /or change the power supply.
Other than a manufactoring error...i believe that your problem is rooted within the power supply.

[OnionMan]

Why couldn't you touch the system, did it give you electrical "zaps" (little electric shocks) ?

Im stupid for not explaining that. You couldnt touch it because there would be not little shocks but a continues flow of electricty into your finger.

does the output where you plug the computer in have an earth (three connecting pins)?

I dont know if it has the 2 or 3 pins. Ill check tonight when i go home and post again at work.

Even if the computer is properly earthed, peripherals like a camera or printer should not be plugged into a USB or Firewire port while they are already plugged into the electricity supply.

Ooops

It is also possible that the cable connections to your front USB ports may be wired up wrong, as discussed in this topic:

http://forums.windrivers.com/showthr...highlight=ICH5

I checked that topic, thanks. I will check the connections on my next motherboard.

Well, ive also been told there might be a short on my motherboard's mounting to the case thru a screw. Dont know how to fix that really.

Also, im now sure the power supply is okay at 220V. But i would like to know more about checking for a short or problem in the powersupply if anyone knows about that.

I will check back later for other advice. Thanks for the help guys!

[rblockmon]

wow man that sucks! static electricity or too much voltage to the cpu? or inccorrect ac/dc voltage from power supply, what is the thailand wall output and how much can the p/s handle?

[cdclintdll]

Checking the power supply for a short is not a good idea if you are planning on opening it.

Place your questionable power supply in another working computer. This way you are able safely determine if your power supply is at fault.

[Platypus]

Checking the power supply for a short is not a good idea if you are planning on opening it.

Place your questionable power supply in another working computer. This way you are able safely determine if your power supply is at fault.

I agree that checking for faults in a PSU is not a suitable task for someone who has no understanding of electrical testing and safety procedures.

However if a PSU is suspected of causing damage to a motherboard, trying it in another computer is not a very wise idea, although if it blew something up in the other computer, that would certainly demonstrate it is faulty...

OnionMan, your problem is quite possibly that your mains wiring has no earthing, or the earthing system is bad. One way to check this without needing test equipment is first to try another good mains lead, making sure it is a type with the earth pin, not a 2-pin type. If this makes no difference, try the computer somewhere where you know for sure the electrical outlets have a proper earth (ground connection), and see if you still get the shocks. If you do, have the computer serviced at a reliable repair shop. If the shocks stop when the computer is properly earthed, get the building wiring fixed.

This article is worth reading:

http://www.thailandguru.com/cq-grounding.html

I present it purely for the relevant information contained, I do not endorse or otherwise comment on the author or any services offered.

[TripleRLtd]

Well, ive also been told there might be a short on my motherboard's mounting to the case thru a screw. Dont know how to fix that really.

Good advice Platypus.
Hey Onion: can you "burn-in" the new mb outside of the case before you give us your progress with the build?

[NetBizz]

Hi OnionMan,

Platypus has my full vote, if you are getting small or continuous electricity when you touch the comps parts then, it is due to a earthing problem check whether you have a proper earthing. Check your earthing full from main board of your home to whole house.

If you think that is too costly then do this:

Select one power outlet where you work from if you have a three pin outlet then connect a wire (a slightly thick copper wire with proper insulation over it should do) to the earth pin (the one on the top of the three) and take to ground outside through a near by window tie it to a iron pole atlest two-three feet long and send the pole inside the ground by diggin a pit of the same depth.

To achieve good result you can do this also after digging, fill the first feet of the hole with coal and common cheap salt you get in Thailand.

As a note: the 220v should not create any problems, if you don't know your nearby neighbour INDIA works on 220v power supply for the whole country.

[OnionMan]

You guys are awesome.

Last night i noticed two things. That my PSU can either be set to 230V or 115V. Im assuming that the 230V it was set at matches the mains power. I also noticed this morning that i forgot to check if the outlet was 2 or 3 prong. Argh, stupid me. But maybe it is three.

So I hope you dont know what your talking about because if you are right then basicly im screwwed.

I cant get the building rewired because its an apartment building. I imagine if i got my thai girlfriend to tell the manager that the building needs rewiring he wouldnt give a rats *** coz he is still getting the rent money. And i cant dig a hole because of the physical layout of the place.

Assuming you guys are right, is there anything i can do inside my apartment, like plugin something, to stop the problem?

Hoping that you were wrong, i took out the PSU and peeked inside. It does look like this big metal block thingy (dont know what to call it) is a bit too close to the metal case.

Here's the plan: Get a new PSU, new motherboard, some plastic screw washers for mounting it. I can put it together at home and if I still get that damn shock again I will take it to the shop and have them plug it in there to see if there is the shock. If there isnt a problem with the PC, then i will tell my apartment manager to rewire the building or I will move out (move out and let them keep my 2 months deposit, argh). I might be able to "burn-in" the new board outside the case if you ment boot the PC without mounting the board inside.

Ill probably get the parts before work tomorrow and then ill post again 24 hours from now. Wish me luck.

[PIONEERP]

The first thing I would have done was to download a copy of the motherboard manual and get a volt meter able to read both AC & DC voltage. RadioShack has cheap $12.00 meters good enough for this.
In the manual it has the voltage input to the motherboard at each pin from the ATX plug coming from the power supply.
With the system plugged in and with the ATX plug, unplugged from the motherboard I would have first checked for a short to ground to the computer case first. Then at the ATX plug (unplugged from the mother board) check the voltage & ground outputs at each of the pins specified in the manual.
Also the power supplies to the disk drives can be checked. Most CD drives are clearly marked what amount of power is needed at which pin. the norm for the four prong plug is [ 5+ G G 12+] (G = ground or negative / + = positive voltage). If it's an over voltage at the board because of the 230 volt mix up, its most likely at the drives also.

[Taz Devil]

You can also try this....figure out which lead is hot (using a meter, or one of the screwdrivers that has an led) to test circuits. The other lead is the negative. You can run a small bit of wire from the negative lead to the ground input on the socket. Not the optimal solution, but will provide grounding. I had to do the same thing to a 100 year old house in Germany

[Platypus]

You can run a small bit of wire from the negative lead to the ground input on the socket.

If anyone reads this and is tempted to do it, DO NOT EVER, EVER DO THIS!!!!

If the earthing is bad, all that the earth wiring then does is connect together all the earthed appliances (metal cases) in the building. If this is then linked to the neutral return of the mains wiring, nothing may happen that appears to be a problem, since the neutral is nominally at earth potential.

But if something ever causes the neutral connection to be broken on the supply side of that link (eg bad connection in a fuse box, circuit breaker mistakenly wired into the neutral by a bad electrician), every earthed appliance on the now disconnected neutral line will not only stop working, but will become LIVE. If the neutral break occurred at the building's master switchboard, every supposedly earthed appliance in the building would have 220V on its case.

And guess what people do when an appliance stops working? Grab it to have a look...

[Taz Devil]

Actually, this trick was taught to me by a Master Electrician here in Germany. The first thing I checked when I moved into our house was for ground, and there was none. Short of ripping holes throughout every concrete wall (that's how they build them here) to run a ground, this was the only way.

As I said, this isn't optimal, but it will accomplish the task. And it is not dangerous, and does not affect every line in the building. The original post describes a situation where traditional, more effective means of grounding will not work. This is a viable, albeit, last resort solution. This is better than blowing MB after MB though???

Using your logic, we may as well shut everything down and not use anything electric, because if we're stupid enought to hire a bad electrician, it really wouldn't matter what we've done or not done, because if he crosses a wire, it would blow everything anyway.

[gerf]

Actually, this trick was taught to me by a Master Electrician here in Germany. The first thing I checked when I moved into our house was for ground, and there was none. Short of ripping holes throughout every concrete wall (that's how they build them here) to run a ground, this was the only way.

As I said, this isn't optimal, but it will accomplish the task. And it is not dangerous, and does not affect every line in the building. The original post describes a situation where traditional, more effective means of grounding will not work. This is a viable, albeit, last resort solution. This is better than blowing MB after MB though???

Using your logic, we may as well shut everything down and not use anything electric, because if we're stupid enought to hire a bad electrician, it really wouldn't matter what we've done or not done, because if he crosses a wire, it would blow everything anyway.

Um, do you understand the differences between an "earth" and a "negative/ground" are?
Well, first you have a hot line running in, which you call "positive." If this sucker has a way to get to a negative or earth, it will send current through.
With electricity, the power generated in an appliance comes from pushing current through the device from "positive" to "negative." This means that there is indeed current running through a negative line.
Earth lines however do NOT have, and SHOULD not have a regular current running through them. They are more for emergency purposes, including safety reasons. For this reason, they don't usually have as high of a guage of wire, and aren't as insulated, as they're not normally used anyway. Heck, they usually run to a bare rod stuck in the ground somewhere, where any kid can touch them, not realizing what it's meant for.

But what you did was hook it up to "negative" which means you could easily run current through it. Which means that this barely protected wire is charged, everywhere it runs. You can easily start fires this way, or at the very least, shock the hell out of someone.

So don't do this. This is very very bad. You could easily kill someone.

Unless someone wants to say I'm wrong. I've been known to be in the past. But at least I respect electricity for the power it weilds.