Backup???

**Kodiak** · August 8th, 2005, 07:05 AM

In your great wisdom OH great and wonderfull windrivers forum what is your opinion on what backup method is best considering all the viruses out today and about the only time anyone needs to use a back up is after a disaster like a virus. My thought here is" just a thought and not a problem" if you are doing backups on a regular basis, daily, and you get a virus and you fight it a few days, would it not be so that your backup would be infected also? With that in mind what is your best options for backing up? A differential or incremental?

**slgrieb** · August 8th, 2005, 05:31 PM

I think your choice depends quite a bit on how much data you need to back up and how much personal time an employee is going to spend with the procedure. Overall, I think I still prefer digital tape to everything else. Sorry if this sounds too retro. Drive cost is high, but the media is cheap and non-proprietary. I always try to sell a customer a system that will have enough capacity to do a full, unattended backup. Don't like differential or incremental backups. Like to do full backups, scheduled for hours the machine is not in use, if possible. Since the backups are intended to be unattended, time is not a big factor.

I generally set up small businesses with a daily full backup to an external hard drive which can be stored off-premises, and a weekly backup to tape, rotating 5 tapes. The question about any hard drive is not "if it will fail", but "when will it fail". I just can't see using one as your only backup device.

For businesses with small requirements, backing up to DVD or CD can work well, but someone may need to be on hand to shuffle disks. My least favorite choice would be something like an Iomega REV Drive. I hate proprietary media, and I have a serious Iomega allergy, having been hung out to dry by discontinued/overpriced drives and media.

**Kodiak** · August 8th, 2005, 06:19 PM

In the case of a virus infection would your backup not be infected if the backup occured after the infection? In the case of a virus it would seem that the loss of data would be lessened with an inc. backup. I'm just doing a little research on backing up systems so it's just a question.

**joeace1** · August 8th, 2005, 11:44 PM

True but it depends on what of data you would be backing up. The inc backups usually only back up files that have changed since the last backup. And yeah slgrieb I totally agree with you on the Iomega sickness. Too many zip drives with the click of death. And media you cant usually get or if you do its usually overpriced.

**Guts3d** · August 9th, 2005, 06:24 AM

I usually pick up an 80 or 160 gig Western Digital USB backup drive, cost is around $100 to $200 and use the backup service in Windows XP. Since it is USB, it is pretty fast, and the Windows backup can be set to do incremental, full or overwrite. No complaints yet, knock on wood!

**Ferrit** · August 9th, 2005, 08:22 AM

Ghost 9 and laptop harddrives in a 2.5 USB enclosure. For ease of transport
IE: they fit in your shirt pocket

If its a server situation you may have to go to Live State Recovery

**Kodiak** · August 9th, 2005, 07:04 PM

Speaking of windows xp backup utility I have tried to use it and for some reason it takes about 10min for it to come up. It sits on looking for back up devices and just grinds there and you can't get rid of it or anything. This is also on a fresh install today. I have a dvd and cd burner and jump drive for backups if I want. Any reson for the delay I can check on?

**Gabriel** · August 11th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Hi,
Better decide what you want to accomplish - if Backup. The shipped windows backup application (AKA ntbackup.exe) is fairly good. just make a job and backup on intervals.
I am doing backup with a sophisticated batch file that uses commandline versio of 7z. I just know where my data is. so it operate in the evening and takes my file.
If you want Disaster Recovery - I recommend Acronis True Image server edition. It backs up almost every media with very good spped and compression ration. This could be done offline (while system is down) or when system is up with somekind of agent.

Thank you and Good luck,
Gabriel

**confus-ed** · August 11th, 2005, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kodiak

Speaking of windows xp backup utility ..I have a dvd and cd burner and jump drive for backups if I want. Any reson for the delay I can check on?

Well what happens if you pull the jump drive ? (completely uninstall it, if it needed any drivers) - any better ?

The windoze backup utility is expecting to find a tape drive & often 'gets upset' with anything usb that's utilising Usbstor.sys (This KB as reference even though it mentions nothing about disks, its the same thing !

-sp2 is supposed to fix this)

**arch0nmyc0n** · August 11th, 2005, 05:03 PM

I like Ferrit's idea of the external 2.5" drive in a bay with ghost 9... seems the easiest... but as for viruses, it happens... Virus scanners these days are better for prevention rather than removal... most business customers I have I've setup with a normal backup 10 tape system. Mon-thurs tapes, 3 friday tapes, 3 month tapes. So you've got stuff 3 months prior... the question is knowing when the infection began...
Recently I've been setting up systems for chronic infection customers with USB flash drives. I setup all the programs like OE, address book and My documents to store onto the flash drive. If (or when) they get infected again I simple unplug the flash drive and plug it into my tech machine and run a scan while reinstalling windows. I've even gone so far as to keep hard drives with specific customers machines setups sitting on a shelf for when they come back so I ghost the drive back without installing again. It's always nice to have a computer returned to a customer inside 20 minutes.

**Kodiak** · August 11th, 2005, 07:08 PM

I puled the usb jump drive and it makes no difference. I also have a mapped drive called backups and my kids machine and I keep all my backups there.

My initial thought in the beginning of this thread was how to back up a customers data, residential, not into the big time yet, and in the case of a virus infection what would be the best way and lose the least amount of data for them. I do home offices so it is sometime's not just there emails and docs.

And I like your, Arch0 & Ferrits ideas there.

**confus-ed** · August 12th, 2005, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Kodiak

And I like your, Arch0 & Ferrits ideas there.

I dunno who 'your' is refering to there, but the various ideas about carrying about flash drives & usb disks are pretty good for the majority of users now, however with disk sizes getting huge, I find there's more & more folks I need other arrangements for ( I've got a few home customers with perhaps 500 gig of storage or more & increasing quickly as big drives are really cheap in $ vs gig ratio).

To be honest 'I divorce' myself from responsibility with this type of user, & I provide an image of any machine that I fix, but only for the 'system part' ( I always partition out my windows install as far as possible), which generally will fit on a dvd or two or three (& very rarely 4, if I've agreed to deal with installed programs too).

& on your actual problem kodiak, other than getting rid of the mapped drive (maybe its waiting for some signal & has to time out? Mapped drives can definately do this sort of thing, especially not in a domain), for now, I'm fresh out of ideas - sorry dude - & anyways you might be better creating a thread for your problem, & leaving the 'theory' questions on this one, then more folks might look at your problem, & not just 'have a waffle'

(I like waffles ! especially with jam & cream !

{I think jam is jelly to american folks, & I do like maple syrup too !

})

**Kodiak** · August 12th, 2005, 07:38 AM

I was refering to the jump drive and external drive they was talking about. For myself I use a jump drive and my kids machine is my external drive and it has saved my butt a couple times.

As for the original question, in short, what is the best way to back up a customers data and retrieve the most for them in the case of a virus? I'm sure if you are backing up on a daily basis and you get infected it would infect the back ups correct? With that in mind would a:

Incrimental
Differential
Full

be the best method? Never mind the ease or how much space it takes just the best way with the virus in mind. By the way, I ask because it is better to ask before it become a actual problem then wait till it is and you boy's out there are some smart folks and I go to several forums so I respect your answers.

**confus-ed** · August 12th, 2005, 07:55 AM

With no practical constraints, full backup having completed a virus scan would probably be the 'best' imho ..

The backups you create can't get infected or shouldn't, they are hopefully on some seperate thing (you need 'proximity' to get infected), but you can sure as hell, back up an infected system inadvertently which isn't too much use if you need to restore it.

Incremental & differential only ever get used for 'practical' reasons (tapes drives etc cost money & a full backup takes of course much longer etc)

**Kodiak** · August 12th, 2005, 08:49 AM

Now I'm confused. Why would you think a back up would not be infected if you set a back up to perform its function daily? Not even a full back up could get infected I would think with the types of viruses out now days. You do a daily for a customer and come back a week later to find out they have a virus type of situation.