Trying Bios Hotswap method

[Going Bananas]

Hello all, here's the issue, I did a bad flash on my bios. Trying to correct it with the hotswap method. Dead bios is on my Abit NF7-SG motherboard. Using a Asus
motherboard on the secondary PC to correct the problem. I have made the floppy boot disk with my bios and awardflash utility, ran the award utility in MSdos after restarting and booting from floppy, switched the chip ran the bios file and it than says program file is not for this system (i guess meaning that it knows it is not compatible with the Asus Mobo) I read of another method of fixing my bios with the seemingly dead mobo even though there is no video output on my screen by having the floppy automaticly install the bios somehow.
Need more info on both topics. please help!!!

[NooNoo]

Welcome to Windrivers Bananas

You write the commands to flash the bios into the end of the autoexec.bat file on the floppy so that it automatically executes... but you must make sure you have the commands exactly right.

Alternatively get a pci video card and see if that works.

Does the board power up? fans spin? Are you sure it's just no video?

[CCT]

http://www.abit-usa.com/downloads/bioshelp.php#2

[Jeff the Brit]

Seeing as Ruslan (old Windrivers regular of vast and subtle knowledge) doesn't look in often these days, I'll take the liberty of reposting his words of wisdom:

My topic is about "how to" revive motherboard after failed attempt of updating BIOS, especially if motherboard won't boot at all after that bad flash (!). Materials, placed here, content some of my "know-how", and cannot be quoted without reference.

Why seemed to be simple BIOS updating operation can be finished with undesired result - motherboard, what won't boot at all?
Reasons can be different here:
1. You have downloaded wrong BIOS image file. Rarely, but sometimes manufacturers places wrong BIOS updates for their motherboards on their www-sites.
At least, once I had been surprised to see BIOS string message "P2B-F" after downloading and updating BIOS for my ASUS P2B motherboard (it was German ASUS FTP). Filename was correct - listed as for P2B, but it turned out be wrong file's content.Fortunately, both of motherboards are having almost compatible BIOSes.
But I've seen also quite a few BIOS updates for Gigabyte motherboards, what aren't working at all.
So, be careful here...
2. You forgot to unzip archived file - unbelievable, but sometimes it happens...especially with "dummies".
Many (if not all) BIOS updates placed on manufacturer's sites, are being packed using ZIP or another archiver.
So, You have to unzip the BIOS image file first before flashing.
3. Power surge or cut-offs during flash operation. You should have either UPS, or at least reliable PSU ; although flashing BIOS takes not so much time, but nevertheless, "be on safe side of caution";
4. Flash utility did not recognize BIOS chip correctly.
Make sure what flash utility does recognize You BIOS chip type correctly (!); otherwise You can fry Your flash IC!
Some of an old flashers (for example, awdflash ver.5.35) can recognize new types of flash ICs as 28F010 or 28F020 flash (i.e. with 12V programming voltage(!)). If Your BIOS chip is in fact flash IC with 5V programming voltage, Your BIOS chip will be damaged! So, make sure Your flash utility is fresh enough and supports BIOS chip type.
Some of motherboards are having special jumper for changing programming voltage (either 5V or 12V DC) of the flash IC. Make sure You have set correct voltage!
5. Sometimes new BIOS file can have incompatible with original boot-block. That boot-block (can be hardware protected or software protected) is responsible for booting motherboard even if rest of flash chip is erased or damaged (for example, after Win95.CIH virus attack).


New versions of awdflash utility by default does not support reflashing boot-blocks. That's the main reason, why seemed to be successfully done flash operation sometimes can turn out what motherboard won't boot at all!- an old boot block can be incompatible with new BIOS update.
Besides that, in some motherboard that boot-block can be hardware protected (as shown on picture above).
Sometimes boot-block survives and You can hear some booting sounds from speaker, and PC trying to boot from floppy. It is the easiest situation for BIOS recovery, though.
6. Of course, sometimes flash chip itself can be damaged. There are could be few situations...
Chip can have few bad bytes, what can't be correctly re-flashed.
Or have lost two manufacturer's ID bytes written into first two bytes (hidden) in chip. Can be activated only by applying programming voltage to the A9 adress line of the chip.
In last case You can see message "unknown flash type", and that chip cannot be re-flashed using ordinary methods.
It could be also simply an old flash utility what unable recognize new type of flash IC - use the latest possible one instead...
7. Current version of BIOS flashing utility can be working incorrectly with some flash IC types.
For example, I've seen too many failed BIOS updates after using ASUS flash utility (aflash) version below 2.02 and Mosel Vitelic 29F002T flash ICs. It turned out an old versions on Aflash utility are working incorrectly with those chips ... although flashing seems to be successful, flash operation has undesired effect -motherboard won't boot after that. Newer version of Aflash (2.02) utility have no such problem.
8. Some of flash ICs may be not supported by that particular motherboard's chipset ... it's definitely engineer's fault.
You can refer to .doc for Uniflash utility for some details.
9. Using Winflash utilities also can be risky - programming flash IC types requires precision timing, what hard to get in multitasking environment. Some programs can interfere with working winflash utility (antivirus, spyware, and so on).
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Well, I have described main reasons why flashing BIOS can be failed.
Now I will tell You, how it can be fixed.
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Believe me - it is not necessary looking for exactly same motherboard, if You have failed flash operation - save Your time and money!

Which exactly method of BIOS recovery You should choose - completely depends on situation You have.

Situation:
1. PC won't boot from any device except for floppy drive.
Easiest situation...
Solution: You should use an ISA videocard and original BIOS recovery procedure described, for example, by Freddy here: http://forums.windrivers.com/cgi-bin/forum3/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=004900
May be, his topic also have gone as well as mine, though.
If so, there is doc (in pdf) how it can be done
(placed at Amptron site, but I can't find it at this moment).

Very good topic, I almost have nothing to add... This situation is possible, when BIOS chip has so called boot block(s), one (for example, 28MX1000P) or two (i28F001BX-T). These BIOS ICs are usually having hardware protection (programming voltage should be applied to the certain IC's pins). Some motherboards have no support for reprogramming boot blocks, though (for example as shown on picture above). That's why sometimes almost impossible to reprogram boot block (especially incompatible with original) in some motherboards. Some motherboards, though, have special switch for enabling rewriting boot-block.

Situation 2:
Motherboard won't boot at all...The most common problem...

Of course the best method of BIOS recovery is using special stand-alone programmer. But not so many techies can afford to buy it...I have soldered few simple universal programmers by myself... If someone familiar with soldering iron - I can e-mail to You schemes, soft and so on...But assuming You have no programmer...

Then... Some techies prefer to order new BIOS chip from well-known companies like http://www.badflash.com . It will cost something about 25 USD. It will take also some time for delivering, but it's reliable.
I have nothing against their business (as it seems to me they are working well), but why not to earn (or save) those 25 $ by yourself?
And, by the way, who knows,may be next day power surge can erase Your BIOS chip again...
Do You agree with me? If not - there are no points to read my next strokes...

If yes...Then...
As long as You have been working as PC tech, You can almost any spare motherboard laying around turn into universal flash programmer and reprogram Your BIOS chip back!

Actually, many of "an old techies" at least heard of such operation called "hot-swa" but not so many techs out there have been tried that or knows, how it actually works.
All materials below are based on my experience of repairing motherboards (more than 5 years)...

The best choice here is using ASUS motherboard as host. Why ASUS?
Almost EVERY ASUS motherboard can be used as well as universal flash programmer!
All ASUS motherboards are supporting reflashing boot-blocks, aflash utility from ASUS does not do stupid "checking for compatibility with original BIOS" like awdflash does, can re-flash wide range of flash ICs with different sizes. Beside that, excellent third-party flashing software also can be used with ASUS motherboards.

You can program flash ICs for any of devices, i.e. not only for any of motherboards, but also for modems, printers and so on based on flash ICs. You should have full image file for whole chip (not only for some part of IC) in that case. Just only ignore incompatibility message!

You can use any ASUS board with originally 1Mbit flash BIOS IC for reprogramming almost ANY of 1Mbit flash ICs.
I tried ASUS VX-97, P1/P55T2P4, TX97, TX97E, TX97-LE, P2L-97, SP97-V, P2B, P2B-F, P3B-F, MEL-C, P2L97... all worked.
If You have ASUS P2B, P2B-F, MEL-C or similar with 2Mbit BIOS motherboard - You're lucky!
You can to reprogram everything You want with size 2Mbit or 1Mbit IC (backward compatibility). Take also into account, what most of modern motherboards have 2 Mbit flash chip as BIOS...

- Boot ASUS motherboard in test bench (without case) in DOS command promt mode without any drivers.
- Pull carefully original BIOS out from motherboard and insert BIOS IC You want to flash (hot-swap).
Don't use screw driver made from metal! (it may be plastic envelope opener,for example)
- Run aflash utility.
- Choose "update all, including boot block" (option 2), type file name You want to flash and good luck!
Programming AMI BIOS? - Really it doesn't matter ! ignore incompatibility message and all!

[Jeff the Brit]

Continued:

By the way,using aflash utility You can see version of current and new BIOS You want to flash.
So, You can stop flashing in time, if You're suspecting, what You have downloaded wrong BIOS file.

Found minor bugs, though:
Aflash utility from ASUS doesn't recognize some of MX29FXXX chips. But most likely it will be fixed bit later by developers...
Make sure BIOS chip has flashed completely, i.e. 1Mbit from address 00000 to 1FFFF, 2Mbit from 00000 to 3FFFF without any gaps. Sometimes it may happen, if You're flashing BIOS for same ASUS board as You currently running (boot block is reserving during programming).

Another cool utility, what also works for ASUS motherboards, is "Uniflash".
Uniflash util should be used in "expert" mode.
List of all commands and modes you can obtain running that util with key /?
Can also reprogram, save to disk boot blocks for any motherboard.

Minor bugs found:
- Old utility, some new IC types can't be supported. For full list of supported IC types run that util with key -chiplist.
- That utils written using Turbo Pascal, what causes well-known "run-time error 200" in fast PCs (above iP200). There is special patch correcting that problem. It was true for an old version 1.17.
But...
Original Uniflash 1.17 project was abandoned by his original authors, but nevertheless, developments are going on now, but by another authors (Rainbow software).
Latest uniflash utility version 1.25 (at this moment) can be downloaded from http://www.pppr.sk/rainbow/
Supports wide range of flash ICs.
Also should be run in "-expert" mode, then choose update all, including boot-block.
Has ability of recovering flash ICs with lost manufacturer's code ("unknown flash type").
Full list of supported ICs can be obtained by using command like:
Uniflash -chiplist >chiplist.txt
It will save data into file with name chiplist.txt.
For reflashing "unknown flash"; chip You should type in command line:
uniflash -expert -force C21A,
where C21A - manufacturer's ID code, obtained from chiplist.

Found bugs, though:
Works incorrectly with some of new flash IC types and chipsets.
But, as I have said, works are going on...

Another good universal flash utility is "Ecflash".

1. Download that flash util from ECS (Elitegroup).
2. Replace original good BIOS IC with IC You want to flash.
3. Run downloaded flash util.
4. Type image filename You want to flash, press "enter" and wait a bit.
5. If Your BIOS IC is repairable, You'll get it correctly reflashed. If not - You probably had unrepairable IC (inserted with wrong polarity or something similar...).

Has ability to recover BIOS chips with lost manufacturer's code - with so called "uknown flash" message

Found bugs:
- old utility, doesn't support new flash ICs.
- Works only for Intel and some another chipsets.
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If You have no ASUS motherboards laying around...
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Well, no problems ... You can use another motherboard as host, but remember- aflash works only for ASUS motherboards...
I tried (with success) Fordlian, PCPartner, PCChips motherboards with 2 Mbit BIOS for that.

Uniflash and Ecflash will work for these motherboards as well as for Asus.
But the best and the most universal flash utility for non-ASUS motherboards ... is AMIflash.
Currently I use AMIflash v8.53 .
Can be used for reflashing any Award BIOSes as well, by the way.

1. Pull out good chip and insert chip You want to reflash (hot-swap).
2. Run amiflash:
Amifl853.exe filename.bin [enter]
3. Then check box "reflashing boot-block" in options.
Uncheck box "checking TAG" (You're going to reflash incompatible BIOS file)
Uncheck box "reboot after reflashing" - then You will have some time to reflash it back, if something went wrong (i.e. for example, You forget to pull out original BIOS chip ).
Resetting CMOS also isn't needed, because anyways You're flashing BIOS for another motherboard.
4. Run flashing and good luck! ( ignore incompatibility message).

And another tip...

Why seems to be new Awdflash utility does not allow You to do similar things,
"freezing" as soon as You're trying to load "incompatible" with original image file?
That utility became now safer for end-users and less useful for techies like me.
Locked boot block programming makes almost impossible reflashing BIOS with erased or incompatible with original boot block. Fortunately, not so many flash IC types have that boot block. Here is list of some flash chip types without hardware boot blocks:
Atmel 29C010, 29C020, 29C040
Winbond 29EE010, 29EE011, 29C010, 29C020
SST 29EE010, 29EE020
All these flash IC can be reflashed for another motherboard using ...older awdflash utility.
Use newest possible version, what recognizes You flash IC type and allows You reflashing BIOS for another motherboard (ver.6.21 or below (!), may be).
Old versions of Awardflash didn't check compatibility issues (except for chipset and flash IC size, may be).
BUT VERY IMPORTANG ! FLASH UTILITY YOU'RE USING MUST RECOGNIZE FLASH IC TYPE CORRECTLY!!! - OTHERWISE YOU'LL FRY BIOS CHIP!!!

For people, who is concerned about safety of hot-swaps:
I would recommend to buy 32-pin ZIF socket like I use now:
It will make safer hot-swaps and let You feel like You're really working with usual programmer.
I just only did one little mod : added 1 (up to 3) extra sockets (the same ones as used for holding BIOS chip (DIP) in motherboards).
Costs something about 10 US cents each...or can be soldered out from bad motherboard...
I can insert and use that ZIF-32 socket for any motherboard laying around and thus, turn every spare motherboard into universal flash programmer.

That ZIF socket (called "TEXTOOL",32-pin,with 0,1 inch lead spacing) can be ordered from worldwide known 3M company:
http://products.3m.com/us/electronic...ics_ehp.jhtml? powurl=2R6R5WLHZLbe54FL4R3WNKgeGST1T4S9TCgvPNTCW5K
RV1gl
So, You're now can give it a try...
If You're not sure, use spare flash chip first (can be taken out from definitely dead motherboard).
It doesn't really matter, what type that chip is, but that chip should have the same size as original.
Good luck!

[Jeff the Brit]

Continued:

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And now extracts from my comments to another forum members - sort of FAQ :-) )
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Q: What can I flash using my spare socket7 ASUS motherboard?
A: Using ASUS motherboard with originally 1 Mbit BIOS chip You can reprogram any flash 1Mbit IC, and sometimes even boot-blocks for 2Mbit BIOSes it depends on flash IC's type and used flash software).

It really doesn't matter, for what device You're programming that chip.
It may be AMI BIOS 1Mbit flash chip for completely incompatible with original motherboard,
1Mbit flash IC for modem, CDROM, printer and who knows, what else.
For example, I did copy of BIOSes of IDC 2814BXL+, GVC33,6K,GVC56K modems using my programmer, and then successfully reflashed flash ICs for faulty modems using my ASUS VX97 motherboard (customers were having problems after failed firmware updates).My programmer didn't support those ICs.
Asus TX97XE does not support 12v flash ICs ...so, I would not recommend it for universal programmer.

About 2Mbit motherboards ASUS P2B, P2B-F, P3B-F, MEL-C and so on... These motherboards are bit more expensive, but far more universal ones for reflashing purposes. You can reflash ANY flash IC with size 1 or 2 Mbit (backward compatibility).
But as I have said, not only ASUS motherboards can be used for reflashing BIOSes, though. You can also use almost any motherboard (socket7, slot1 or socket370 - really it doesn't matter), but with 2 Mbit BIOS chip.
You can try it and post Your results here.
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Q: Can I or not reprogram flash IC for Pentium 1,2,3,4, Athlon motherboards?
A: If You have ASUS MB with only 1Mbit BIOS chip - You can reprogram ANY flash IC with size 1 Mbit.
It may be BIOS for any Pentium 1 (or Pentium II ) motherboard with 1Mbit BIOS.
If You have ASUS MB with 2Bit BIOS (P2B, P2B-F or something similar),You can reprogram ANY
flash IC with size 1 Mbit and 2 Bit (backward compatibility). It may be any of Pentium1, 2, 3, 4, and Athlon motherboard,
if all mentioned motherboards have 1 or 2Mbit flash IC as BIOS chip.

Some of motherboards (with buit-in video) have 4Mbit BIOS, though. For example, Intel 810/815E (not 815EP!) chipset -based motherboards. These BIOS chips CANNOT be reflashed in mentioned motherboards without additional switch due to obvious difference in organization. However, I use usual 4Mbit EEPROM in that case, reprogram it using programmer, boot PC with that IC, and do hot-swap then. But some of motherboards like ASUS CUV4X uses so called "Intel firmware hub", what in fact is not usual flash IC (although it does look like usual PLCC flash IC), and thus, cannot be reflashed using mentioned in my topic methods.

Another issue - some of BIOS chips have PLCC package. Although they are pin-to-pin compatible with usual DIP ICs,
special PLCC to DIP converter is needed for convenience. I've soldered these converters (and programmers) by myself.
It's just another my little business. If someone in Canada (especially in Toronto) need it, let me know...
Another thing is mentioned in my posts - 32-pin ZIF socket. It makes easier and far more safer hot-swap operations.
These ZIF sockets I've bought from well-known 3M company (and named "TEXTOOL").

About programmers...I do have quite a few schematics of programmers. But some of them have been drown according to our national standards of electronics (that standard is bit different from Yours). But... :-) if I can understand easily Your electronics schematics, why You would not understand mine. ;-) Difference in fact isn't so big... Components are the same or at least do have full analogous.
Software for almost all programmers what I've seen, at least bilingual (i.e. has English and Russian configurable interface).
If You're really interesting in electronics here is link to Russian schematics search engine (available in English also). http://www.rlocman.ru
So, now I'm open for eggs...err... questions...
Sorry for so long topic ... hope it will help someone...
If someone has something to add/correct me - come on!
Many of "an old" techies like me have own BIOS tips - tell us about them!
Do not hesitate to ask me more. Good luck!



I wonder if Ruslan still comes here? Perhaps he has some even neater tricks in his armoury now.

[Garak]

I wonder if Ruslan still comes here? Perhaps he has some even neater tricks in his armoury now.

I haven't spoken to Ruslan for a good sum of months now - he's still about but very busy.

I will try and think of some solutions later on when I have a little time - If you do a search for some of Ruslans posts or even some of my own - you will find the answers you need in there - if you need them explained a little more, ask I don't bite (often)..