install xtra ram onto hp pavilion zv5000

[CCT]

My post had little to do with you or anyone other than the original poster. Sometimes good tutorials are better than squawbling techs and amateurs (like me).

[CCT]

Sorry OMG -WRONG!


Read the tutorial please.

[CCT]

I will try to explain this:

Yes, that company makes that board.

No, that company DID NOT make that computer.

HP ordered that board BUT without the expensive Dual Channel Technology.

Many companies do that - they don't make the components, they custom order and assemble them.

You cannot look at the motherboard in a Branded Computer and say that the motherboard bios or facilities are per specs of the motherboard manufacturer.

That is why Noo Noo has always (99.99%) maintained that you MUST search out the computer makers site for downloads.

I hope anyone tuning in gets this message - it causes lots of arguments.

[CCT]

Well, OMG, the DDR memory can be run as Dual channel BUT only if the computer supports Dual Channel, and sadly that computer was assembled from ordered parts that don't.

If you haven't managed to understand what I am saying until this point, then I guess you won't.


Be well anyway.

[CCT]

My understanding:

Old style (Single data rate SDR) ram - accessed once per cycle. Cannot be run as Dual Channel.

New style (Dual data rate DDR) ram - accessed twice per cycle. Can be run as Dual Channel.

Single channel access is done 64 bits at a time from (example) memory location 0 through to the end (depends on how much you have, so let's say, with 4 x 512 you have 2048, so 0-2047) so the memory manager grabs 64 bits, moves and writes it, goes back. etc ( starting with Bank 0 and moving the the last bank (bank 3 in a 4 bank system )).

IF the motherboard uses Dual Channel controllers for the memory management,and the RAM is installed properly in both A & B banks, then the DDR memory is accessed at 2 x 64 bits = 128 bits at a time and written 64 bits to one bank of ram and 64 bits to the other for an actual transfer of 128 bits, which saves some time from digging out 64 bits, writing it, another 64, etc. This process is approximately 15-20% faster than 64 bit single channel access and writing.

BUT - the motherboard MUST support Dual Channel as well as Double Data Rate.

[NooNoo]

Speed of the FSB and dual channel have nothing to do with each other.

There are two memory controllers. Each ram bank addresses their own controller. The speed rating of the memory stick remains the same.

That is ALL that dual channel does. It does not change the frequency at which the ram runs.

If you install two toilets in one house, it means that two people can go to the toilet at the same time. It does not mean that they pee any faster. But they are ready to do the next task faster since they don't have to wait for one another...

[Platypus]

Dual Channel ram effective clock speed with one stick installed runs in single channel mode meaning 166 Mhz to achive dual channel mode you have to use a pair of DDR sticks pref. exact matching branded ram which achives 333mhz as recommended.

OMG, what is the point of posting this kind of nonsense?

1. There is no such thing as Dual Channel RAM.
2. Single channel mode is a mode of the memory controller - if you fit one memory stick to a dual memory controller, only one controller has memory to address, the second controller is inactive.
3. DDR SDRAM runs exactly the same in either case, the clock is 166MHz in either case, the double-clocking transfers data at 333MHz in either case.

[Platypus]

DDR PC2700 = Dual Channel Memory

DDR PC2700 = Dual Data Rate Memory

any board that uses P4 533FSB and athon 64 processors uses Dual Channel memory

As mentioned, there is no such thing as Dual Channel Memory. But in case you mean all such boards use memory in Dual Channel Mode, that is also false.
Single Channel Intel chipsets such as 845PE run P4 533FSB and DDR333, and Socket 754 Athlon64 CPUs have their Single Channel memory controller on the CPU die, they are not Dual Channel.

1 stick of Dual Channel memory does not produce the full capacity FSB + = 333Mhz.

False.

[Platypus]

OMG, posting errors again doesn't make them correct. Once again, what is the point of you posting this nonsense?

[Platypus]

smith, if you haven't lost interest and are still following this, you must make up your own mind whose advice to follow.

Look at the laptop you have in front of you. If you discover that your original post was wrong and you don't have to dismantle the machine to replace both DIMMs, as OMG assures you, then as I and Ferrit have already said, the best way to have everything at peak potential would be to replace both with identical DIMMS, up to 1GB each.

If you find there is only one accessible DIMM slot (or if you only want to buy one DIMM) then you have some choices, eg:

1. If you want to find out if your computer will have performance degradation by not having two paired DIMMS, remove the accessible one and do memory transfer rate benchmarking. (Benchmarking/system analysis programs would also indicate if the memory clocks down to 133/266MHz as OMG says it would.) If the performance falls, that's what will occur if you use differing sizes of DIMM. Remember, even if the memory performance does fall somewhat, the advantage of the greater amount of memory can outweigh that. If your system pages to the hard drive with 512M, this operation will take many times longer than having the data still in memory, so if having 1.25G prevents this, you'll be well ahead in this regard even if the memory throughput is down a bit.

2. If you are concerned your computer will have stability issues by not having paired DIMMS, either buy performance guaranteed memory, or bite the bullet and get access to the second slot to replace both DIMMs.

Just another thought, do you have an alternative application for either or both of the existing DIMMs? If you're just going to try to sell what you're left with, weigh up whether it will be easier to sell just one or better to offer a pair.

Good luck and don't hesitate to get back to us at any time.

[Platypus]

Incidentally, in case anyone harbours doubts about "Dual Channel Memory", the helpful folk at Crucial who seem to think they know something about memory have some comments:

"The terminology "dual-channel memory" is being misused by some in the memory industry, which can mislead the consumer. The fact is there's no such thing as dual-channel memory. There are, however, dual-channel platforms.... While performance gains from dual-channel chipsets aren't huge, they can increase bandwidth by as much as 10 percent."

http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=3751

[NooNoo]

The Socket 754 Athlon 64 doesn't have a memory controller as such - it is part of the CPU, the technology (called hyperthread transport) allows a theoretical transport of data at 1600mhz, so the faster the RAM you put in, the more throughput you got. It could not use dual channel technology - the 754 package was single channel only.

The 939 package can use dual channel, it also upped the HTT to 2ghz.

So in a straight fight, is dual channel faster? Well according to this article it very much depends... on what is being processed and how much cache is on die. The article compares a 3400+ 754 single channel memory processor's performance with the 3500+ 939 dual channel. The results showed that for gaming, on die cache more than made up for lack of dual channel memory.

Other tests included rendering, where the dual channel again was the same or just a tiny bit better. Tests for engineering graphics had the dual channel coming out better, but still not twice the performance. LAME encoding was exactly the same.

OMG your assertions that Dual Channel Controllers and the appropriate memory stick will produce twice the performance is naive. The speed is not just about whether it's dual channel or not.

Now if you have a dual channel motherboard processor and you only put a single stick of memory in, you will get lower results... but it will not halve the speed of the pc.

Remember Smith has a laptop, and unless it's very new, it won't have dual channel technology and so it won't matter whether he matches sticks or not. As long as he buys ram that is able to run at the processor's effective rate (FSB x pump) his machine will be as fast as it can be. If he buys ram that is slower, then his laptop will be slowed.

I have a pentium M in my laptop. It runs at 400 fsb, so one stick of PC3200 is fine.

What may produce slow results is if the sodimm buried in the middle of the laptop is of a slow speed such as PC2100. It won't matter what speed you put in above PC2100 on the user accessible slot, because the laptop can only work at the rate of the slowest ram.

[NooNoo]

OMG, here is a list of the available models for the zv5000

Which would be easier - guessing which one he has or use my laptop as an example? Some of those are AMD and some are Intel. The correct memory speed depends on which processor is installed. However, faster memory will run at slower speeds. So if the processor calls for PC2700 and he can only get PC3200 it will not matter, the memory will run at the slower speed.

He will need Double Data Rate Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory, better known as DDR SDRAM. There is no such thing as PC2700 Dual Channel Memory

[Platypus]

------------>Dual Channel Memory - There is no difference between Dual Channel DDR Memory<------------ and ordinary DDR Memory, it's the motherboard that is different.

NooNoo no such thing as Dual Channel Memory you say.

OMG - no difference - it's the same thing

What that is saying is that what people call "Dual Channel Memory" is "ordinary" DDR Memory - there's no difference.

You said tell the memory manufacturers to change their labelling - exactly - it's not correct! That's what Crucial said in my link - calling memory Dual Channel Memory is misleading. It doesn't have dual channels. There is no Dual Channel Memory - memory with Dual Channels.

They may label a package Dual Channel because it's selected to match timings, but that means "selected for use on a Dual Channel system", it's not different "Dual Channel Memory". There is no such thing.

[CCT]

OMGmissinglink posted "DDR - Double Data Rate memory - a type of DRAM based on SDRAM technology that operates at twice the bus clock rate. It uses 184 pin modules. Released in 2000."

If you had read that article I linked to, or almost anything else about FSB operation, you would have learned that DDR memory gets an 'effective' operation at 2 x FSB and Dual Channel operation of DDR memory gets an 'effective' operation of 2 x DDR Single Channel for an 'effective' operation of 4 x FSB.

An example - my ASUS P5GD1 has a FSB of 200 MHz and the Ram operates at 200 MHz BUT since it is DDR the effective rate it operates at is 400 MHz.

When I put in at least 1 stick of Ram in each of the colour coded ram slots I get Dual Channel which 'effectively' gives me RAM operation at 800 MHz = to my 'effective' FSB for overall 'effective' operation of 4 x 200 = 800 MHz.

This is the 'optimum' achievement in balance for a computer cpu and Ram.


NOTE: I have edited some stuff here to be as accurate as possible.