Spontaneous Shutdown
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Thread: Spontaneous Shutdown

  1. #1
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    Spontaneous Shutdown

    This is quite a long post. It needs some explaining to avoid wasting your time.

    My other half has a HP zd7000 series laptop, more precisely the zd7143ea. It's a second hand machine but is in good condition. Windows XP Home is installed on it and it was given a 1GB RAM upgrade so it has 1.25GB of RAM instead of the standard 512MB fit. It also has a new WD hard disk. All software, drivers and BIOS are up-to-date. External peripherals include HP F4580 Printer, Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse, WD Elements 1GB HDD.

    The problem is (as the title suggests) that the machine spontaneously powers off without warning or completing the normal process. It's like someone has whipped out the power lead without the battery installed. The fault is intermittent, but when it happens once it will happen again quite soon after. Once it's powered off, it takes a bit of effort to get the machine to start again.

    She's not using the machine for anything intensive, just basic office type tasks. The shutdowns happen normally when she's using MS Office, although they don't occur exclusively with MS Office. Office 2007 was installed, but in an effort to test the issue, I uninstalled it and installed Office 2003 instead. The shutdowns seem to have reduced VERY slightly.

    I've tested the machine with memtest with no faults. I've had the back off to check for damage or loose connections - there are none. I used a burn-in program for a few hours while monitoring the CPU and GPU temps and they didn't go particularly high and the machine didn't crash, even when I covered the vents to push it. I think the highest recorded CPU temp was 55C which is well within the specs for a P4. The fans work fine and are pretty clean.

    From my searching, I have found the following suggestions (they haven't worked):

    - Dodgy battery (tested with battery removed)
    - Dodgy LAN (turned it off and used wireless)
    - Dodgy wireless (turned it off and used LAN)
    - Heat (no problem, see testing above. Normally lives on a glass desk too.)
    - Disconnect external peripherals (done)

    While I was checking through the forums, I found http://forums.windrivers.com/showthread.php?t=76534 so I'm going to try looking for that. I don't have access to a multimeter at the moment to check the power supply. Testing on battery isn't really an option as it won't last longer than about 40 minutes. I'm also wondering about the merits of removing the CPU, cleaning the surface and reapplying thermal paste, although I think I've established that heat isn't a factor.

    Any suggestions??

    My guess is something to do with the power supply, the on switch or a busted motherboard.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Registered User geoscomp's Avatar
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    The default configuration for XP is to restart when the system encounters an error..even though your's doesn't restart, but rather shuts down, the first thing you might want to do would be to disable the automatic restart to see if you get a blue screen error with a code than can tell you what is happening. To do that, right click on my computer and choose properties. Choose the advanced tab and then startup and recovery. Under the settings tab uncheck the automatically restart check box and then the appropriate apply and ok buttons and reboot.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Guts3d's Avatar
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    I agree with Geoscomp, one possibility; have you ever reimaged a computer with a repair reload? Easy to do, the only drawback is that you will have to redo all the patches, ervice Packs, hotfixes, etc. Please be sure to backup your data first, in case the image session goes south on you.
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    Thanks for the replies.

    I unchecked the auto restart option when I installed XP. I doubled checked anyway and while I was sniffing about I checked the event log too. Nothing of note there.

    I've done repair installs before on machines yes. I have all the patches on an external disk in the form of Autopatcher anyway. Do you actually think there will be any benefit in doing so in this case? I'm not convinced its a software issue, other than all instances seem to occur using the network and MS Office.

    I was pondering the merits of installing Windows 7 on the laptop instead as it seems a whole load more resilient.

    I should also point out that the computer does this immediate power off thing whether the battery is in or not. No battery warnings given.

    This is going to be a hard one to test. I've never personally managed to make it crash but the other half is having to save her Word docs every couple of minutes just to make sure she doesn't lose a load of work. Normally she has running in the foreground:

    - Spotify or WMP
    - Firefox
    - Adobe Acrobat
    - MS Word

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Registered User Guts3d's Avatar
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    Easy way to test, beg, borrow or steal a seperate laptop hard drive and try imaging it with a fresh copy of XP. Load Office, and keep your fingers crossed. This will eliminate both a bad hard drive and the Windows XP load as possible culprits.
    " I don't like the idea of getting shot in the hand" -Blackie in "Rustlers Rhapsody"

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  6. #6
    Chat Operator Matridom's Avatar
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    can we clear up a little detail? Does it shutdown without any errors and stays off? Your original post would indicate this is what's going on

    Event viewer would record this is an unexpected shutdown.

    If that is the case, it's not software and you would be barking up the wrong tree looking for your problem there. Now looking at your other troubleshooting, happening when the battery is removed, with battery but no power.

    I suspect that you have a faulty voltage regulation subsystem in your computer, it controls power from both AC and Battery, deals with charging cycles etc. This component is usualy built into the motherboard of the laptop, meaning not an easy repair. It would also explain why it happens more frequently after the first shutdown, things are getting hotter and cause either creep or solder joints to break apart, once it cools down, things contract and the system will power back up.
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    A normal shutdown through the start menu works perfectly.

    For the problematic shutdowns, there is no recorded event suggesting a cause. The computer turns off without warning - exactly like if you removed the power cable without the battery in. It does not restart. To turn on again requires a number of attempts at the power switch.

    A faulty voltage regulator sounds quite reasonable. But why would the laptop spontaneously shutdown when using the web and office but not when stressing the machine using a burn in program?! Have you any idea how I would check the voltage regulator and/or replace it? First thing I guess is to find it.

    I have the opportunity this weekend to try a fresh install of XP and Office, so I will give it a go. I also have some time now, so I'll fish out the screwdriver.

  8. #8
    Chat Operator Matridom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringo2143z View Post
    A faulty voltage regulator sounds quite reasonable. But why would the laptop spontaneously shutdown when using the web and office but not when stressing the machine using a burn in program?! Have you any idea how I would check the voltage regulator and/or replace it? First thing I guess is to find it.
    You don't fix that type of problem, you replace the part. That means 99% of the time, the motherboard needs to be replaced.


    Stress testing the system does not stress all components. only those targeted by the software.

    try discharging the battery, then plug in the AC, that would stress the adatper and other associated components as it needs to draw power to run the system AND charge the battery.
    <Ferrit> Take 1 live chicken, cut the head off, dance around doing the hokey pokey and chanting: GO AWAY BAD VIRUS, GO AWAY BAD VIRUS
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matridom View Post
    try discharging the battery, then plug in the AC, that would stress the adatper and other associated components as it needs to draw power to run the system AND charge the battery.
    Thanks for the reply.

    I stripped the laptop last night, cleaned it as best as I could, put some new thermal paste on the CPU and put it all back together. Discharged the battery and gave it a few charge/discharge cycles while stressing the CPU, RAM and GPU. No crashes. I got about 10-15 minutes out of the machine on battery with it stressed so it's not really in the best condition.

    You say that the burn-in program doesnt stress all the components. True enough. But what does MS Office use other than the CPU, RAM, GPU and HDD? It's not like it's any more intensive than a game or something.

    I'm going to put Office 2007 back on it and listen out for the screams as she loses her work. Can anyone suggest a program to capture exactly what is happening just before it switches off (other than Event Viewer)?

    Any further suggestions on what might be the problem?

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