[RESOLVED] Server Recommendation

[DOS Tech]

I need to build a Win NT 4.0 Server for a company with 10 Users (Win98 clients) they only the server for data security, file and printer sharing. I will setup a router for Internet sharing. So what would you recommend for this enviroment. They have a $1200 to $1600 budget for the server. Please respond only if you know from experience, I need to know the following:
1. Amount of Ram
2. CPU Brand (AMD Athlon or P3)
3. CPU Speed
4. Video Card (I don't think it matters)
5. Network Card (Are there any made for servers)
6. Motherboard (Does it make a big difference in stability, I want to get a DFI)
Thanks for your time and expertise.

[Eagle PC Diagnostech]

With that type of money for a budget:
Intel 815E Motherboard w/Sound, Video, and Nic
PIII 800 Mhz
IDE 40GB Hard Drive
IDE Seagate 10/20GB Tape Drive
256MB PC-133 SDRAM
The only problem I see with the money part is that you would have to pirate the software, because just with Windows NT (10 User) and Backup Exec, you will exceed your budget.

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An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off your goal.

[This message has been edited by Eagle PC Diagnostech (edited January 03, 2001).]

[commander]

The more memory on your server the better, that's a definite. I would look at getting a mainboard that does not have integrated video, nic, etc. If one of them fails, your into a whole new board instead of just 1 card. I would also look into at least a mirrored drive system. That way you've got fault tolerence & can recover from a hard drive failure. Video doesn't have to be anything extravagent, a regular 8 Mb card will do.

[Bobity1000]

I have recently built a server (4 months) and these are the parts I used:

Server case.
Nightshade (440BX chipset, fairly old but excellent)
The board has integrated SCSI (Symbios), VGA and INtel server 10/100 card.
P3
128 Mb RAM
18 Gb (SCSI)Hdd
SCSI CD
Floppy
SCSI Back up Tape
15" Monitor
Win NT 4

This was for a school where they would be using multimedia etc but there have been no complaints and the server is running with no problems.

I would however take the point that using seperates e.g nic, graphics etc is a good idea and the more RAM the better. MS NT4 was selling here for about £1200 with 10 clients for full retail but the school picked it up from their Education department for less than £390 with CAL's at £6.00 each!

The whole job cost less than £1200 and yes I know you work in $'s but we still get the
$-£ conversion over here

Hope this helps.

[3fingersalute]

I agree with Eagle PC, NT Server and Client licenses are going to run you most of your budget!

If it's just a small file server that won't be used hard, I wouldn't bother with SCSI and RAIDS, it's probably overkill, just get a reliable IDE drive and make sure they keep it backed up daily.

As far as NIC's, if you go with a mainboard that doesn't have integrated NIC, I like 3COM or Intel, they're easy to throw a second one in later for load balancing if you need it.

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Why do convenience stores that are open 24/7 have locks on the doors?

[iateyourcat]

shame them into spending more than that. if their company is real then they NEED to spend more than that. if they insist on being cheap then YOUR the one their going to SUE when they lose data because YOU didn't recommend any fault tolerance in the way of mirrored drives or a backup solution. do you know that 60% of companies FOLD when they lose data that will take more than 6 months to re-create from paper. if that company folds and you didn't recommend a fault tolerant solution, you are liable. any company that employs 10 people should be able to shell out $10K for a real server solution.

disregard this at your peril.

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=-iateyourcat-=

[cyberhh]

NOTE: Please keep in mind that all the servers I sell are $3500+ for the server and OS without any clinet licenses. You need to Inform your customer that you are placing this server pretty much as - is with regards to scalability and preformance. My reccomendations are based on a ten user network with a $1600 budget.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Geneva, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Eagle PC Diagnostech:
With that type of money for a budget:
Intel 815E Motherboard w/Sound, Video, and Nic
PIII 800 Mhz
IDE 40GB Hard Drive
IDE Seagate 10/20GB Tape Drive
256MB PC-133 SDRAM
The only problem I see with the money part is that you would have to pirate the software, because just with Windows NT (10 User) and Backup Exec, you will exceed your budget.

</font>

The only thing I would change is:
1. Proccessor speed - If the machine is not going to be used as an application server (ie. Oracle, SQL, etc.) save some money and stick with a less expensive INTEL PENTIUM 2 or 3 proccessor - do not use Celeron.

2. Go SCSI - SCSI handles multiple requests better than IDE

3. To save some money Windows NT Workstation provides the server features of Server for up to ten users. If you are not application serving - i.e. running a dedicated client/server application on NT you may find it beneficial to run Windows NT Workstation - less expensive and comes with a ten user CLA.

4. Use a seperate Video Card and NIC - You can use a PCI or ISA if you would like at 16 colors - just concentrate on freeing as much CPU time and system memory for Network services as possible. You can use a 3COM or Intel NIC, both companies make a server version of their NIC, Not really neccessary in a ten user environment.

5. any extra money needs to be invented in memory. Windows NT should not be run on a server with less than 128MB ram, add more RAM for each GB of HDD you add above 4GB. This will affect your preformance more than anything else you do.

6. Once again my OPINIONS and reccommendations are for a $1600 budget and NO MORE THAN 10 USERS.

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Death is lighter than a feather - duty heavier than a mountian.

[thirdfey]

Well, there's only one way to do this effectively. Lets not even look at software prices, lets just build an inexpensive PC. Ppro is one way to and low speed p3 or p2 is the other way to go, processor speed is not an issue if all you do is serve files on a network that small. Main concerns are memory and harddrive speeds, redudancy is nice, but not at that price (cool, that rhymes, I'll have to remember that one). What types of files are they going to be serving? word docs? database? atleast get a 7200 rpm IDE if not SCSI 7200RPM of a brand you trust (i like WD and IBM). Start off with 128 megs of memory and fill in the rest of the budget allows it. Video card? who cares as long as it outputs to a monitor, if I remember right NT is more stable without the video drivers installed than with since the video drivers are the only device drivers in ring 0 (atleast according to my education). Network Card? I personally like the Intel Management NICS which are like 40-50 bucks, but thats just me. Motherboard? big decision, if you trust DFI, why look elsewhere? You could probably pickup an old Intel SE440BX board cheap nowadays but I haven't looked. I figure if you are lucky (scour pricewatch) you can get that all for 500 bucks, thats with a 20 gig IDE harddrive and a p2 400-450. Then its off to pricewatch again for NT4 with ten user license which can be had for around 400-500 bucks but you may need to buy some hardware from them to get it which should be in your budget with possible room for a backup device of some sort, the rest is profit.

The real answer to your question is no, you don't want to do this job unless this is where you work at, then I can understand. But if this is a customer then you should turn them away since they will most likely be a customer service nightmare. This whole situation depends on the situation you are in, if you have a shop that is doing well for a couple years then tell them to go somewhere else, if you are new in the area and want to make a name for your shop then bite the bullet, do it at cost and kiss their *** all the way to the bank and back just to use them for recommendations. But like I said, if this is your workplace that needs the server, then, you have no choice since someone else is making then decisions (make them build the thing).

Have fun,
Tony

[DOS Tech]

Thanks for all input, you can't find this info in any book. I have an aditional $750 (With tax) for the NT Server Software and Licenses. So, thanks for all the help and if anyone thinks of any other ideas or suggestions still leave them I want to start doing more of these jobs. BTW I sold them a 4 hour monthly Service contract for $135 a month.

[iamtheman]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Geneva, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by iateyourcat:
shame them into spending more than that. if their company is real then they NEED to spend more than that. if they insist on being cheap then YOUR the one their going to SUE when they lose data because YOU didn't recommend any fault tolerance in the way of mirrored drives or a backup solution. do you know that 60% of companies FOLD when they lose data that will take more than 6 months to re-create from paper. if that company folds and you didn't recommend a fault tolerant solution, you are liable. any company that employs 10 people should be able to shell out $10K for a real server solution.

disregard this at your peril.

</font>

The Catman is right on the money, its not worth your trouble if they want to nickle and dime a server solution. Heed the advice above if its not too late.



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Born to Network

[AnyTwo]

Please don't build a server on an integrated motherboard! How foolish will you look when the onboard sound (that you're not using) fries and starts hogging IRQ's, and thus crashing the machine? Or how about that high-performance onboard NIC - nuff said!
If thier budget is that small and you really want this job, cut out all your profit. Build a solid Intel chip based system on a non-integrated MB (try SuperMicro)
Slap 256M of PC-133 RAM in it because it's really cheap right now.
Use an IBM 7200 RPM IDE hard drive or, better yet, a Seagate SCSI drive (and card)if you can afford it.
Put two 3Com NIC's in it. This liitle trick has saved me countless times!
Skip the sound card and go low tech on the video. I'm also guessing you don't need a modem.
Put all this in a fat (not tall) case that has a good 300W PS and it's own fan.
Don't forget to buy the best CPU fan you can afford.
Oh yeah, don't forget the tape/optical backup unit - that's going to become a necessity if they don't already have an external unit.
Best of luck getting it in under budget - but we all know the support contract is where the real money is anyway.

[Eagle PC Diagnostech]

Usually I won't build a server with intregrated video, sound, and nic.
But the PRICE of the that board would of saved him money, for his budget.

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An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off your goal.

[Bobity1000]

I agree with Eagle PC Diagnostech about not usually building servers with everything on board but it was a cost issue.
Why not try the Promise IDE RAID card it gives excellent performance for IDE/EIDE drives, speeds up the drives by using cache and also has RAID capabilites for fault tolerance, striping etc and by using this you can do away with the SCSI drives and buy a non integrated board then get the NIC, video etc. I have used this board and it is excellent.

Regards.