Bad HDD drive help! Swaping out internals...

[confus-ed]

I simply have no idea wtf you are talking about. Again, I think it is a language barrier thing.

Am I supposed to apologize now for complimenting someone?

Nope, problems of communication & language differences are common here, look at Ruslan his native language certainly isn't english, but not making cutting comments & misinterpreting intent merely requires thought, not language skills .. ('Just when I was about to give up on this place')

Lets just both put it all behind us shall we ? or if I piss you off so much, just stick me on your ignore list.

[Ruslan]

Well erm why not ? Don't those 'regular' self boot disk diags actually read this ? Pressumably you mean a 'regular' o/s like windoze or unix, you can write boot loaders that ignore bios, like the aforesaid disk diags & I'm 'confus-ed-ly sure' that I've come accross utils from disk manufacturers which do just that, though the ones I'm talking about were/are principally for SCSI drives (but other than the interface the actual drive mechanisms are very similar) so pressumably IDE can be 'done' this way too ?
So your take & experience tells you that they just don't care ? I've had written explanations back on stuff (returned & replaced or returned & repaired) saying pretty much what you've explained is what they've done for me at the 'factory' ..

Yeah, those Diag utils use some parts of that hidden area in their work - like:
1. Firmware version
2. Serial number
3. Model number
All of these are located in mentioned configuration sector.

4. S.M.A.R.T. table status - some of utils can read it and translate into understandable terms.
5. Defect list table - none of Diag utils made by manufacturer will show you actual number of defects found on surface...
For WD Defect Table consist of two parts - P-list and G-list...
P-list has listed defects found during sertification test at the factory - and fixed by manufacturer. Ideally should be empty - but it never happens...
G-list shows grown defects found (and fixed) by using Diag utilities... Originally empty as it comes from manufacturer... Modern drives have so-called auto-reallocate mechanism (usually enabled by default). It means what any found (by drive itself) defects will be fixed without notifying you and substitute sector from the drive's reserve zone will be placed instead of defective one.
Defective sector's number will be placed into G-list.You will not notice any changes as long as there is still place for defective sectors in G-List... But in SMART (if enabled) you will see increased number of reallocated sectors...

Returned drives (Factory-refurbished) are generally those with fixed bad sectors or replaced electronics... So, replaced under warranty drive will be one of these, "tested and re-certified" drives...

Some of third-party diag utils can look inside Defect table - like MHDD v2.90 (works for IBM drives only)... Or HDDSpeed - for Quantum drives...

Now imagine this - if any of and-users can see that defect table right away and say - hey, my HDD is having a lot bad sectors! WTF is going on?! I want defect-free drive! Like any of us,though...
Sorry guys, but that's almost impossible because of modern technology - every hard drive has bad sectors! But they are fixed by manufacturers...
And they are avoiding any potential problems by using any possible methods... including hiding sensitive info from us...

[PolderTech]

Just wonder what information the WD Data Lifeguard diagnostic tools give about this drive.

[TripleRLtd]

I think Ruslan said it perfect already:

Now imagine this - if any of and-users can see that defect table right away and say - hey, my HDD is having a lot bad sectors! WTF is going on?! I want defect-free drive! Like any of us,though...
Sorry guys, but that's almost impossible because of modern technology - every hard drive has bad sectors! But they are fixed by manufacturers...
And they are avoiding any potential problems by using any possible methods... including hiding sensitive info from us..

So: what we get is an error code if the drive fails, And nothing more than a statement that the drive is "good" if it passes "No problems found"....

[NetScum]

Just wonder what information the WD Data Lifeguard diagnostic tools give about this drive.

Nothing, I can never get past the BIOS detection stage if that... Right now my best option is a controller swap with an identical drive I just won off eBay! I'll let everyone know how it goes/went later this week

[GrandDad]

Yeah, those Diag utils use some parts of that hidden area in their work - like:
1. Firmware version
2. Serial number
3. Model number
All of these are located in mentioned configuration sector.

4. S.M.A.R.T. table status - some of utils can read it and translate into understandable terms.
5. Defect list table - none of Diag utils made by manufacturer will show you actual number of defects found on surface...
For WD Defect Table consist of two parts - P-list and G-list...
P-list has listed defects found during sertification test at the factory - and fixed by manufacturer. Ideally should be empty - but it never happens...
G-list shows grown defects found (and fixed) by using Diag utilities... Originally empty as it comes from manufacturer... Modern drives have so-called auto-reallocate mechanism (usually enabled by default). It means what any found (by drive itself) defects will be fixed without notifying you and substitute sector from the drive's reserve zone will be placed instead of defective one.
Defective sector's number will be placed into G-list.You will not notice any changes as long as there is still place for defective sectors in G-List... But in SMART (if enabled) you will see increased number of reallocated sectors...

Returned drives (Factory-refurbished) are generally those with fixed bad sectors or replaced electronics... So, replaced under warranty drive will be one of these, "tested and re-certified" drives...

Some of third-party diag utils can look inside Defect table - like MHDD v2.90 (works for IBM drives only)... Or HDDSpeed - for Quantum drives...

Now imagine this - if any of and-users can see that defect table right away and say - hey, my HDD is having a lot bad sectors! WTF is going on?! I want defect-free drive! Like any of us,though...
Sorry guys, but that's almost impossible because of modern technology - every hard drive has bad sectors! But they are fixed by manufacturers...
And they are avoiding any potential problems by using any possible methods... including hiding sensitive info from us...

Ok , that explains an article I read awhile back claiming you could increase your HDD space , which doesn't sound like a good now .

[Ruslan]

I think Ruslan said it perfect already:
So: what we get is an error code if the drive fails, And nothing more than a statement that the drive is "good" if it passes "No problems found"....

Exactly!

But the problem is - I've seen so many crappy drives "passed" those Diag tests (from all the manufacturers without exceptions!).

That's why I recommended many times at Windrivers MHDD 2.90 uility for testing harddrives - I believe that's one of the best diagnostic programs for HDD I've ever seen... You'll see drive's actual health status (not just - "passed" or "failed"), and predict drive's failure long time before it actually will happen...
Many times it helped me to solve misterious lockups in Windows in customer's PCs. ( http://mhddsoftware.com/products.shtml )...

[NetScum]

Nothing, I can never get past the BIOS detection stage if that... Right now my best option is a controller swap with an identical drive I just won off eBay! I'll let everyone know how it goes/went later this week

Geoscomp, Confus-ED & Ruslan, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for telling me not to open my friends drive and try a controller board swap first. I did win a eBay acution for an identical drive (for a big total of $17 /w shipping) and the the swap worked perfectly. All 3.6GB of data came off the old drive and my friend couldn't be happier. YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!

The original drive was built in June of 98 and the one I got was from April of 98. Both were made in Malaysia however the controller boards were slightly different in markings... Didn't matter as the BIOS reconized the drive right away and WIN XP had no trouble moving the data over to a temp directory.

Now I am going to put the data back on to the new used drive, burn it to a DVD and make sure my friend knows how to use her new DVD/RW so she can make backups more than just once every five years!

So much for the bonehead who said you guys can only help people with spyware... what does he know?

[GrandDad]

Exactly!

But the problem is - I've seen so many crappy drives "passed" those Diag tests (from all the manufacturers without exceptions!).

That's why I recommended many times at Windrivers MHDD 2.90 uility for testing harddrives - I believe that's one of the best diagnostic programs for HDD I've ever seen... You'll see drive's actual health status (not just - "passed" or "failed"), and predict drive's failure long time before it actually will happen...
Many times it helped me to solve misterious lockups in Windows in customer's PCs. ( http://mhddsoftware.com/products.shtml )...

Netscum glad you got that sorted .

and Thanks Ruslan for the link .

[Ruslan]

Netscum glad you got that sorted .

and Thanks Ruslan for the link .

You're welcome!

Congratulations, Netscum!

[TripleRLtd]

Aye!! That is really good news!