all-in-one touch screen WS

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November 29th, 2004, 03:59 PM
PeLiGrOsO

all-in-one touch screen WS

Hello again gang...
i am looking for a workstation that will be used in our Radiology dept. the company that will supply everything is called PENRAD and they offer this workstation that is all-in-one with touch screen and has a small foot print, also can be mounted on the wall. sounds like a nice product, but the name of the product is TOTOKU, it sounds like i need to take it to TOYOTA for support or parts replacement.
i need some help, maybe one of you guys have seen something similar or know of any product that i can use.

this is what i need:

System CPU: INTEL Pentium 4 2.0+ GHz processor
Software: WIN 2000 Professional

System Memory: 256 Mb
Ports: One serial port for touchscreen, and if applicable, two USB port or serial port for Labelprinter, one serial port for Film Flasher Interface (Livingston-two for AGFA unit)
Connectors: PS/2 Mouse/Keyboard connectors
Video: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, LCD or CRT-recommend touchscreen*****
Storage: 40 GB Hard Drive
Networking: 32 bit PCI LAN PnP 10 base T or integrated.. doesnt matter
Accessories: Keyboard, Mouse (optional.. i can always get mouse and kb)
November 29th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Archangel42069

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeLiGrOsO

Hello again gang...
i am looking for a workstation that will be used in our Radiology dept. the company that will supply everything is called PENRAD and they offer this workstation that is all-in-one with touch screen and has a small foot print, also can be mounted on the wall...

Why not something like this? Tablet PC from Toshiba

Says you can have "handwritten notes" and the like...doesn't that mean it has to be a touchscreen?
November 30th, 2004, 07:24 AM
craigmodius

you're a braver man then me. I leave the Radiology dept. well enough alone. Sure I mess with the workstation PCs and the network, and a little bit of dicom, but when it comes to the imaging workstations I keeep my hands clear to cover my azz.

Last thing you need is some radiologist bitching up a storm because the image quality on your workstation is poor. Looking at their displays they seem to have some high quality stuff. They probably do cost a helluva lot more, but it's an investment and it keeps you out of the equation, when it comes time for support calls at 3am and lawsuits.

Heard a quote one time, "there's three departmants that make money at a hospital. the cafeteria, parking, and radiology" :)
November 30th, 2004, 07:50 AM
confus-ed

Is touchscreen essential ? (whether it is or not, you can do it all bespoke easy enough )

Usually its not 'truely' a tablet or pen type pointer is enough, they want to type mad medical stuff & look things up (having just been on a hospital job to oversee some cabling & rollouts) some guys though do want high quality image handling & displays for 3d work, but they needed a lot better base unit than a p4 2gig & 256..
November 30th, 2004, 08:02 AM
PeLiGrOsO

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigmodius

you're a braver man then me. I leave the Radiology dept. well enough alone. Sure I mess with the workstation PCs and the network, and a little bit of dicom, but when it comes to the imaging workstations I keeep my hands clear to cover my azz.

Last thing you need is some radiologist bitching up a storm because the image quality on your workstation is poor. Looking at their displays they seem to have some high quality stuff. They probably do cost a helluva lot more, but it's an investment and it keeps you out of the equation, when it comes time for support calls at 3am and lawsuits.

Heard a quote one time, "there's three departmants that make money at a hospital. the cafeteria, parking, and radiology" :)

yes i know.. what you are saying about the radiologis... but they are buying some equipment and my director thinks we can do better than the workstations they offer, so my project is to find something that is similar to their product for good service, good brand and cheaper.
this pannels on the link sound nice, they look similar to the ones we have for our radiologis for PACS machines... but i need all-in-one with touch screen.

thanks for the recommendation, maybe you have seen something more similar to what i am looking for.
November 30th, 2004, 08:05 AM
PeLiGrOsO

Quote:

Originally Posted by confus-ed

Is touchscreen essential ? (whether it is or not, you can do it all bespoke easy enough )

Usually its not 'truely' a tablet or pen type pointer is enough, they want to type mad medical stuff & look things up (having just been on a hospital job to oversee some cabling & rollouts) some guys though do want high quality image handling & displays for 3d work, but they needed a lot better base unit than a p4 2gig & 256..

well, that is what the type of machine they offer when you buy the package, not sure exactly what type of imaging they will be reading, all the info i have is the machine information that i need to match or improve with the price the company wants for their machine.
November 30th, 2004, 08:06 AM
craigmodius

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeLiGrOsO

yes i know.. what you are saying about the radiologis... but they are buying some equipment and my director thinks we can do better than the workstations they offer, so my project is to find something that is similar to their product for good service, good brand and cheaper.
this pannels on the link sound nice, they look similar to the ones we have for our radiologis for PACS machines... but i need all-in-one with touch screen.

thanks for the recommendation, maybe you have seen something more similar to what i am looking for.

we have something at work called a leonardo workstation, theat the radiologist uses to review mammos, some googling could turn something up, but I'm pretty sure it's sick expensive.
November 30th, 2004, 08:08 AM
PeLiGrOsO

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigmodius

we have something at work called a leonardo workstation, theat the radiologist uses to review mammos, some googling could turn something up, but I'm pretty sure it's sick expensive.

you hit it right on the nail dude... this new imaging device they will be using is for the womens cente, it will be mostly used for mamographs and stuff. right now the specs that i gave at the opening of the thread are for a machine that will cost us $7k a piece, thats why my director thinks we can do a little better.
November 30th, 2004, 08:42 AM
confus-ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeLiGrOsO

well, that is what the type of machine they offer when you buy the package, not sure exactly what type of imaging they will be reading, all the info i have is the machine information that i need to match or improve with the price the company wants for their machine.

Well for $7 each I reckon I reckon you can make $5-6k each on them specs .. no wonder you boss is keen ;) ! ( touch screen at that resolution is $600 say for 'bargain' lcd & $1000 or so for the box should do it ..) ?

3d generation though is some thing very different & requires fairly scarey graphics rendering & cpu etc also too - you could do with saying what graphics is in their spec & this'll tell us what they want it do , then $7 sounds more feasable especially with s/w at the top end ..
November 30th, 2004, 08:55 AM
PeLiGrOsO

well... i found this yesterday, the IT2000 and i am waiting to hear from the vendor to give me more information about their products. i know i wont have many options to choose from for this project, but i have to give my director at least two or three different machines we can choose from. this might do the trick and what i like the most about them is that it uses a standard off-the-shelf desktop PC motherboard, expansion components and peripherals, you can service, expand or support the IT-2000 with parts and supplies from your local resources.
November 30th, 2004, 09:00 AM
craigmodius

I dunno, you're talking about this radiologist reviewing mammos and not just any LCD screen will do, I think most CRTs do the trick. But LCDs are gonna keep that cramped reading room and the radiologist happy.

I would bet the lion's share of the cost of this workstation is the monitor. It has to meet high standards to review mammos in the detail that is needed. Like they show on that TOTOKU link, subtle differences of gray are what they're looking at...

http://www.totoku.com/dp/product/med...212/hikaku.jpg

Some info on some of the standards from here...

Quote:

The high standard for mammography displays is illustrated by the keen attention the FDA pays to new products. While existing PACS workstations that have already cleared the agency's 510(k) process can be used to review mammography images, the monitors used as part of the workstation must be cleared for mammographic image display. At a minimum, the displays must be able to capture 5-megapixel full-breast images and express sufficient diagnostic detail.

Newly introduced workstations and monitors developed specifically for digital mammography must meet a higher threshold of performance to obtain 510(k) approval. In recent months, a handful of products tailored for digital mammography soft copy have met the FDA standard, including Agfa's IMPAX PACS, a multimodality dedicated mammography workstation that uses CRT displays, Barco's CRT and LCD dedicated digital mammography displays, and Planar's LCD monitor.

As a mature display technology, CRTs have already met and managed most optimization issues for soft copy. But the march is on toward LCDs. Spurred by the promise of improved brightness, life span, image uniformity, resolution, life-cycle costs, and performance enhancements, many sites now routinely read images on flat-panel monitors. Now that LCDs are available for digital mammography, the transition to that modality is not far behind.

I don't think $7,000 is all that bad. our ICAD mammo system's Leonardo workstation alone was $10,000 as I recall and our radiology manager asked me if we could get something cheaper, and I told him the same sorta things I'm saying here.

*keep the radiologists happy
*CYA
*stick with supported equipment
*keep the radiologist happy

why? he's the one guy in that departmant that is making that deptartment money. If he's not there, not happy, the techs are just taking reeeealy cool pictures of boobies all day. :)

If you want to save money, consider a CRT, but either way CYA and ask the imaging company to make sure your display meets their specs/industry standards.
November 30th, 2004, 10:52 AM
PeLiGrOsO

well... director has changed his mind and instead of going with an all-in-one (thank god) we are going to go with a pc and a regular 15" lct or crt touch screen monitor. any brand that you recomend? i was hoping for one that HP sells, we have an account with them and get stuff cheaper...
November 30th, 2004, 12:46 PM
FatalException0E

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeLiGrOsO

well... director has changed his mind and instead of going with an all-in-one (thank god) we are going to go with a pc and a regular 15" lct or crt touch screen monitor. any brand that you recomend? i was hoping for one that HP sells, we have an account with them and get stuff cheaper...

Elo is absolutely the standard in touchscreens. From what I've seen, everything they make is awesome. Planar is good for LCD touchscreens (I believe they use Elo controllers)

As said, you need super resolution and contrast in an LCD.
December 1st, 2004, 01:54 PM
paraflyer

Anyone take into consideration that the "cheaper workstation" idea may still have to go thru FDA approval?

Most medical diagnostic equipment, be it imaging-only or not, still has to meet specific requirements.

THAT's usually why vendor equipment (like GE's PACS systems) ends up being expensive, they had to put all that stuff thru its paces with a specific maximum failure rate, etc.

We're using some Gateway series E4100 PC's here for reading PACS images as quick reference; but the docs still have to go and look on the GE stations for formal diagnosis.

And you're correct that the monitors make up a bunch of the cost; can't use standard Gateway off-the-shelf LCD's, we had to purchase Planar PX-212M's (that sounds kinda like a Stargate address!)