Women in tech

******Warning Rant Session**************

(Beging Rant}

One of my top 50 leasons that I have learned is the following:

What ever you do, never hire a women in your IT department! They are so damn moody and you cant kick there asses if they step out of line!!!!

They whine, they are way too damn detailed with every thing (I mean EVERYTHING).

Word of warning

I dont mean to sound sexist (LIE), but damn. Shut the F*** up already!!!

(End Rant)

Sorry to offend any ladies out there, I am sure you are not like the person that I have described. You cant be if you read windrivers!!!

lol, so whats happend man, explain a little, may help calm u down..

[quote] they are way too damn detailed with every thing (I mean EVERYTHING). <hr></blockquote>

Hmmm talk about shooting yerself in the foot!

Tech work is all in the detail man!

How many times have you solved a user or inexperienced tech - or for that matter a very experienced tech's problem by just going through the details?

Things get forgotten easily enough, basics not checked... ok you get the idea I wont go on


Garak - I am gonna guess he was shown up good and proper infront of his boss by a woman!

[quote]Originally posted by NooNoo:
<strong>

Hmmm talk about shooting yerself in the foot!

Tech work is all in the detail man!

How many times have you solved a user or inexperienced tech - or for that matter a very experienced tech's problem by just going through the details?

Things get forgotten easily enough, basics not checked... ok you get the idea I wont go on


Garak - I am gonna guess he was shown up good and proper infront of his boss by a woman!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I dont mean Detailed in tech exactly, ... it is hard to explain that part. It is mostly the bitchy part that has me pissed.

I wish these girls could show me up, I would not be so mad if they could, but they cant! Get my meaning?

[quote] and you cant kick there asses if they step out of line <hr></blockquote>

AND why NOT !? (Spelling excepted) Sounds like the best bit of this sorry experience, where are all the Misogynists when you need one..... :eek:

I feel for ya man. My co worker is a female. Hell, my office of 120 has 100 females, my boss is a female, I am suprised I am allowed to pee standing up here.
I just keep my cool, and document everything that goes wrong now, and all her little screwups. Don't get me wrong either, she could be a really good tech if she wanted to learn. But the fact is, she thinks she knows everything, I don't get called in until everything is really screwed up. So I stay bored most of the day. My people have their stuff done right. And as far as butt whoopins, I tried to tell her straight up how I felt about her "style" it got me a 2 hour lecture from the boss, who is 2 thousand miles away. She freaking called up and cried to the boss, damn, work with me here.
Oh well, times have changed and Cleetus is no longer in a boys club, must realize women are here and in charge, just play their game, cause I already lost.

I thought I may have been out of line with my thoughts, so I consulted my wife on the subject. Even she agreed that working for a women is hard. EVEN MY WIFE AGREED!!!! Even they know how F***ED up they are!!! HAHAHAHHA :eek:

Funny!

Well, I hate working with some women, I love working with others.

The ones that annoy me, are the secretaries of the head honchos, that spend all damn day, poorly constructing 300 Meg word documents (dont think for a second that Im kidding...) and drop it on us to fix and trim down.

On the flipside, I have worked with 2 female techs, and I think those two girls are the salt of the earth. Very cluey, friendly, great fun, and (low and behold) even good looking.

There are a lot of blokes out there in the industry that suck too, remember that.

I do have to say of the women tech I have met, all but 1 is very very compident and really knows their $h*t, the other is still learning and making progress. I have never had a hard time with there moodyness, at one of my tech jobs there are several women. Several of them are my freinds, I relized that they are not going to give me cooties back in Kindergarten. Have you?

[quote]Originally posted by EvilCabbage:
<strong>Well, I hate working with some women, I love working with others.

The ones that annoy me, are the secretaries of the head honchos, that spend all damn day, poorly constructing 300 Meg word documents (dont think for a second that Im kidding...) and drop it on us to fix and trim down.

On the flipside, I have worked with 2 female techs, and I think those two girls are the salt of the earth. Very cluey, friendly, great fun, and (low and behold) even good looking.

There are a lot of blokes out there in the industry that suck too, remember that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I will agree with you that I am sure that there are some gals in tech that are cool. For instance a good friend of me and my wife is just getting into tech (Websited design anyway) and she is really cool. I would love to work with her. So I guess there are some good ladies out there.

[quote]Originally posted by Thunderwind (Steven Henry):
<strong>I thought I may have been out of line with my thoughts, so I consulted my wife on the subject. Even she agreed that working for a women is hard. EVEN MY WIFE AGREED!!!! Even they know how F***ED up they are!!! HAHAHAHHA :eek:

Funny!</strong><hr></blockquote>

HAHAHAHA
One of the best days I have had at this job, is when I was really pissed off at a bunch of them running me around, I got on the elevator with one of our front desk ladies. She turned to me, completly serious and said "God damn, I hate working for and around a bunch of women" I laughed so hard milk shot out of my mouth, and I haven't had milk in 3 years. She is one of my best around work friends now.

I've worked under men and women (no jokes, please) and I have noticed it is harder to work for a woman. And its not that 'monthly' thing, but all the time. They're more strict and less willing to compromise..

As for women techs, some of my coworkers that I keep in touch with all the time, about half are women. These women do a great job (from what I understand) and are a great addition to the company. Personal problems stay outside (unless they're asked), professional issues stay inside the doors...

Its all a matter of who you're working for. I've worked for some women who were great bosses. Easy going, willing to listen to new ideas, etc... and I've worked for some men who were just plain pains in the a$$es.

Don't forget, not too long ago, the men were expected to go out and work, and the women were expected to stay at home. A lot of it lasting until 20-25 years ago. A lot of college professors, and members of high management still try to live in that world, and expect everyone else to. So, if they see a woman coming up quickly, sure, they may nit like it. They might make it harder for the woman to excel in what she easily can, thus making her work harder, and possibly giving her an attitude towards the other workers.

Times are changing. Unfortunatly there are still a lot of people out there who believe in the old ways, as difficult as it may be now in this economy. Hopefully once the traditional thinking minds are out of the way, things will improve...

One more thing that may contribute to this: Women only make about 85%-90% of what a man would do in the same exact job with the same exact experience and same exact work ethic. Its a fact.

As a woman in charge allow me to tell you a couple of things. Hiring guys sucks. Each one of you thinks that you know the only/best way to do something. You keep your egos in your pants, you're messy, unorganized and your work is sloppy. I'm surprised most of you even remember to shower once a day (once a week if your European). I consider myself pretty laid back, but working with men is something I wish could do less. If I could find more women with the talents I need I wouldn't have hired 1/2 my male work force. Women tend to be more complete with their work, they tie up loose ends and are better at customer relations which is what IT is all about.
We basically have to work harder for the same respect. My female coworkers understand that I expect from them what I expect from myself. Heaven help me if I have to come down on a male coworker. I'm suddenly a "bitch" or "on the rag". You try dealing with that on a daily basis. Men can just fart around and get promotions thanks to the ole boys club, but dammit I have to bust my *** everyday and I still don't get invited out for dinner with the boss. Thunderwind, don't take this personally, but screw you.

EDIT - I'm leaving this up, but please understand that reading the initial post upset me quite a bit and I just typed what I was feeling. I know that much of this is subjective, and I, in general, have good relationships with the members of my team. I'm cool now and I think I actually apologized a little further in. I guess Thunderwind was feeling the same way I was when he wrote his post.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>As a woman in charge allow me to tell you a couple of things. Hiring guys sucks. Each one of you thinks that you know the only/best way to do something. You keep your egos in your pants, you're messy, unorganized and your work is sloppy. I'm surprised most of you even remember to shower once a day (once a week if your European). I consider myself pretty laid back, but working with men is something I wish could do less. If I could find more women with the talents I need I wouldn't have hired 1/2 my male work force. Women tend to be more complete with their work, they tie up loose ends and are better at customer relations which is what IT is all about.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well there we have it! Men & women should not work together...it is a war waiting to happen. Thanks for the post!

i personally know where hes comming from, so let me try to explain what I THINK hes trying to say here..
ok some ppl,, usually the female gender, have a way of noticing the lil stuff, the non important little details,like these cables shuld be run neatly, what im trying to say is we the techs dont necesarrily notice the lil stuff,and are experianced enough to understand more real world technical details , then they cant, we tend to overlook the lil details that arent causeing the problemo , like who really cares what that tangled mess looks like behind the desk is the computer funcioning? no why , probablly not because the cables are ot of order, but if you would to put them in order like lets now tie the monitor cable with the printer cable and the cat 5 lead, we can straighten them out, tiem all togetherm nice and neet we might risk a posible ground loop, or blead over from the monitor cable, and the cat5/or printer,causeing errors, if you try a fix and cause another problem ...you didnt fix the first problem..if you would have left them tangled they wouldnt have very much inductance.. , before you jump to conclusions , im just trying here to get the feel of whats going on, and you the tech are trying to sort out another problem not waste valuable time on a worthless isue,like i said some ppl pay way too much atention to worthless details why the major details are over looked,and when you open youre mouthe to these ppl ohh oure way too wrong and they in tern end up critisizeing you , ive been thier done it did it , my sympathy goes out to you man ive worked on cars,"where every body else places thier worthless 2 cents" you dont sweat the lil stuff till the magor problems are ironed out, personally i would open my mouthe and make her look bad ,, personally ask here why she has to act this way , call her imature , but put her right on the spot for her actions , ooh she will get pped off about it but go right thier and say something to her anny way , you cant loose man, if she gets rude ask her why? if i ever got into a fight with someone, or got punched by the bully i had my own way , just ask the person point blank why did you hit me? why are you acting this way?? its better then decking the person , because it hits them in thier mind, i actually made a friend by doin this in jr high school, no body ever had the nads to get in this persons face and say why did you do this?? personally show them how wrong they are and the problem goes away, but watch youre back these ppl like to make stuff up and go cryn to the boss to get eaven , better tell the boss about whats goin on first,
ask him why he ever hired this person who needs to sek other employemt for they are not working out! i feel for bro you but i just cant reach my postal workers uniform....</end of rant>

Don't get me wrong Kymera, I have worked with many different people. It is the person themselves that should be looked at closest. But to say that all women tie up loose ends, while all men are just slobs(with the exception of the French maybe) is just wrong. Almost all that I have done since coming to this job is tie up loose ends. Virus's that weren't completly irradicated, about 15 pc's just left broken, cleaned up the network, multiple problems everywhere. Both guys and girls can suck, the hardest part to deal with is how we each percieve things. All in all though, I am glad that I do have a female counterpart. We see things differently, but that allows us to tackle different problems in different ways allowing for a more complete solution. I just don't like dealing with the moodiness and having to watch where I tread, that is all.

Funny you say that about women. I noticed that its not women techs. 70% of techs are ANAL. I notice this all around and esp. shines when you are in a room full of them for long periods of a time.
Personal experience of that when training to get some certs. Class full of fu**'n no it all a**holes. Made alot of the people esp. those thinking of changing careers (God bless the older people venturing out) scared to even ask a question. Me, i could give a s**t if I answered wrong or whatever they just got a middle finger in the middle of class. I already went to school and had a job.

BTW-The females in classes I was in were the least anal while the geek egg head know it alls would go out of there way to impress the females with their tech knowledge. "Yeah buddy that'll get you down her pants, it adds to the 3 inch thickness of your glasses, HA Go the F home and watch Star Trek. (no offense to Trekkies)

For example, If i type FPT by mistake and mean FTP you know what the f**k i meant, just drop it. That is just a small sample, could go on and on and on and on.

My theory is these people (and not all techs are like this) are socially inadequate they only feel equal hiding behind a computer.

I knew I should have waited before I submitted that, it's completely re-worded now. The problem with corporate men is that they feel like they have some sort of right to things. Like you Thunderwind. Trying to kick people's asses because your work isn't up to their standards is the cry of someone who has been spoon-fed for most of their life. Why don't you try actually applying yourself to your job and doing it better instead of blaming your boss for your lack of competence.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>As a woman in charge allow me to tell you a couple of things. Hiring guys sucks. Each one of you thinks that you know the only/best way to do something. You keep your egos in your pants, you're messy, unorganized and your work is sloppy. I'm surprised most of you even remember to shower once a day (once a week if your European). I consider myself pretty laid back, but working with men is something I wish could do less. If I could find more women with the talents I need I wouldn't have hired 1/2 my male work force. Women tend to be more complete with their work, they tie up loose ends and are better at customer relations which is what IT is all about.
We basically have to work harder for the same respect. My female coworkers understand that I expect from them what I expect from myself. Heaven help me if I have to come down on a male coworker. I'm suddenly a "bitch" or "on the rag". You try dealing with that on a daily basis. Men can just fart around and get promotions thanks to the ole boys club, but dammit I have to bust my *** everyday and I still don't get invited out for dinner with the boss. Thunderwind, don't take this personally, but screw you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can I go work for you?

And furthermore Kymera!! You stated: "As a woman in charge" You are repeating yourself!!!

Hehehe, every women is in charge, or least thinks she is!

;)

[quote]Originally posted by cleetus:
<strong>Don't get me wrong Kymera, I have worked with many different people. It is the person themselves that should be looked at closest. But to say that all women tie up loose ends, while all men are just slobs(with the exception of the French maybe) is just wrong. Almost all that I have done since coming to this job is tie up loose ends. Virus's that weren't completly irradicated, about 15 pc's just left broken, cleaned up the network, multiple problems everywhere. Both guys and girls can suck, the hardest part to deal with is how we each percieve things. All in all though, I am glad that I do have a female counterpart. We see things differently, but that allows us to tackle different problems in different ways allowing for a more complete solution. I just don't like dealing with the moodiness and having to watch where I tread, that is all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay, I was making a mass generalization. I do have several men on my team who are my right hand. If they say something, I take it as gospel. It was wrong of me to say that. I was just so pissed reading the message that I really didn't stop to qualify my remarks. There are many people on this board who are great individuals and who have helped me. Maybe instead of saying men, I should have just said Thunderwind.

[quote]Originally posted by Thunderwind (Steven Henry):
<strong>And furthermore Kymera!! You stated: "As a woman in charge" You are repeating yourself!!!

Hehehe, every women is in charge, or least thinks she is!

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Spoken like a true moron. ;)

[quote]Originally posted by Draggar:
<strong>

Can I go work for you?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Umm, so you can be my boss in 2 months. I think I'll pass thanks. :D

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>

Umm, so you can be my boss in 2 months. I think I'll pass thanks. :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope this doesnt come off too poorly, but where exactly the flying fsck, did you get your attitude from?

Its women, and men, that think the way you appear to, that are making this industry bloody awful to work in.

Take the 'tude, and cram it with walnuts.

Cheerio.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>

Spoken like a true moron. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

And another thing, you are taking this way to personal. I have not directly insulted you, so why do you to me? It is very insulting!

Also, I have not been spoon fed anything, put myself through college, grew up in a poor neiborhood, am not corperate (work for one, but am not corperate type), ect.

So dont berate me.

[quote]Originally posted by EvilCabbage:
<strong>

I hope this doesnt come off too poorly, but where exactly the flying fsck, did you get your attitude from?

Its women, and men, that think the way you appear to, that are making this industry bloody awful to work in.

Take the 'tude, and cram it with walnuts.

Cheerio.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay, I guess you're a little hostile today. I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye on this issue, but we can still be friends.

[quote]Originally posted by Thunderwind (Steven Henry):
<strong>******Warning Rant Session**************

(Beging Rant}

One of my top 50 leasons that I have learned is the following:

What ever you do, never hire a women in your IT department! They are so damn moody and you cant kick there asses if they step out of line!!!!

They whine, they are way too damn detailed with every thing (I mean EVERYTHING).

Word of warning

I dont mean to sound sexist (LIE), but damn. Shut the F*** up already!!!

(End Rant)

Sorry to offend any ladies out there, I am sure you are not like the person that I have described. You cant be if you read windrivers!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bull,

I'm sorry but this is just a horible thing to say, First I have women in my IT Team and I have never had any type of problems with them. If anything I have had more problems with the guys than the women. Being in a IT dept means working with in a team and dealing with personality's. Every person I have worked with all have the same minor god complex and are very intteligent people. Intelligent people tend to be quirky and have fun personality's but lumping a group togeather like that is just wrong and a sign of weakness. I'm sorry but that is the most distrurbing thing I have heard in a while. I know for a fact that there are a lot of female techs on these boards who would rip you apart for such a childish opinion. And personaly I would stand by them, think a little before you type.

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>

Okay, I guess you're a little hostile today. I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye on this issue, but we can still be friends.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Im not sure this is so much 'seeing eye to eye', as you just being plain wrong.

While everyone else seems happy to admit that both sexes can be bloody awful to work with, you just seem adament that men are to be avoided at all cost, and honestly, if i had the misfortune of working with, or under, someone with your outlook, you wouldnt last long at all.

[quote]Originally posted by Thunderwind (Steven Henry):
<strong>

And another thing, you are taking this way to personal. I have not directly insulted you, so why do you to me? It is very insulting!

Also, I have not been spoon fed anything, put myself through college, grew up in a poor neiborhood, am not corperate (work for one, but am not corperate type), ect.

So dont berate me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I put a smilie after it. *sheesh*

LMAO...This is so true!


I guess it would be okay if she was deaf and had a nice rack. :D :D :D

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>My female coworkers understand that I expect from them what I expect from myself. Heaven help me if I have to come down on a male coworker. I'm suddenly a "bitch" or "on the rag". You try dealing with that on a daily basis.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And couldn't you say that if a guy was coming down on people you could easily hear some comments like 'Oh, he didn't get any last night' or 'He's bein an a$$hole'?

Don't think I'm disagreeing with you, I agree with you 100% (Well, the 'on the rag' issue to me is a hands-off issue). I've seen it. But also, being a "bitch" or an "*** " is part of the job description of being in charge sometimes. You have to pull attitude. Its not pretty. When I used to be an asst manager, I was called a lot of things, some nice, some not at all. You have to take the punches.

Now, if I were to see a manager giving out warnings etc..., I'd first see if it was called for.
If someone came in late 5 minutes, but was never late in their 3 year career, and they got slammed on hard, I'd concider that a little harsh, esp if there wer eother people to cover the work.
But if that same perosn was late every day, 10-15 minutes, then I'd agree with it.

If one of those days, your department isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing, and they say that you're being a bitch. Show them how much of a bitch you can be. Its not a curse, its a talent.

If I could throw that kind of attitude around, I think I'd make twice as much as I am now.

Thunderwind mabey they just don't like you?

[quote]Originally posted by EvilCabbage:
<strong>

Im not sure this is so much 'seeing eye to eye', as you just being plain wrong.

While everyone else seems happy to admit that both sexes can be bloody awful to work with, you just seem adament that men are to be avoided at all cost, and honestly, if i had the misfortune of working with, or under, someone with your outlook, you wouldnt last long at all.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Typical. Veiled threats and animosity. Fine. You're right. I'm wrong.
Does that make you feel better?

[quote]Originally posted by EvilCabbage:
<strong>Well, I hate working with some women, I love working with others.

The ones that annoy me, are the secretaries of the head honchos, that spend all damn day, poorly constructing 300 Meg word documents (dont think for a second that Im kidding...) and drop it on us to fix and trim down.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Disagree there, I kiss the asses of the secretaries of the big guys. Start puckering up on day one. I have played the game to much to know that they run the life and opinions of the big guys. Kiss there butts, bend over backwards, all that stuff, and if you have a big problem, let them know, and somehow it ussually gets smoothed over.
But, why do they always have to be so ditzy?

[quote]Originally posted by firemonkey:
<strong>Thunderwind mabey they just don't like you?</strong><hr></blockquote>

ROFLOL.....That may be true. Hahahahaha....LOL,

[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>

Umm, so you can be my boss in 2 months. I think I'll pass thanks. :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

Trust me, I've done the manager thing in the past. Its not for me right now.
And my experience is shot. I'd probably be lucky if I got a job as a mailroom clerk. :D

[quote]Originally posted by cleetus:
<strong>I feel for ya man. My co worker is a female. Hell, my office of 120 has 100 females, my boss is a female, I am suprised I am allowed to pee standing up here.
I just keep my cool, and document everything that goes wrong now, and all her little screwups. Don't get me wrong either, she could be a really good tech if she wanted to learn. But the fact is, she thinks she knows everything, I don't get called in until everything is really screwed up. So I stay bored most of the day. My people have their stuff done right. And as far as butt whoopins, I tried to tell her straight up how I felt about her "style" it got me a 2 hour lecture from the boss, who is 2 thousand miles away. She freaking called up and cried to the boss, damn, work with me here.
Oh well, times have changed and Cleetus is no longer in a boys club, must realize women are here and in charge, just play their game, cause I already lost.</strong><hr></blockquote>

DAMN DUDE! Why don't you just shoot yourself in the face and get it over with?

[quote]Originally posted by EvilCabbage:
<strong>
On the flipside, I have worked with 2 female techs, and I think those two girls are the salt of the earth. Very cluey, friendly, great fun, and (low and behold) even good looking.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you're a goddamn lier! :D

[quote]Originally posted by Draggar:
<strong>

And couldn't you say that if a guy was coming down on people you could easily hear some comments like 'Oh, he didn't get any last night' or 'He's bein an a$$hole'?

Don't think I'm disagreeing with you, I agree with you 100% (Well, the 'on the rag' issue to me is a hands-off issue). I've seen it. But also, being a "bitch" or an "*** " is part of the job description of being in charge sometimes. You have to pull attitude. Its not pretty. When I used to be an asst manager, I was called a lot of things, some nice, some not at all. You have to take the punches.

Now, if I were to see a manager giving out warnings etc..., I'd first see if it was called for.
If someone came in late 5 minutes, but was never late in their 3 year career, and they got slammed on hard, I'd concider that a little harsh, esp if there wer eother people to cover the work.
But if that same perosn was late every day, 10-15 minutes, then I'd agree with it.

If one of those days, your department isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing, and they say that you're being a bitch. Show them how much of a bitch you can be. Its not a curse, its a talent.

If I could throw that kind of attitude around, I think I'd make twice as much as I am now.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is a fine line. There are times when I deserve it, I came down harder than I should have. It is also hard to prove as feelings are very subjective. It is akin to saying you got pulled over because you were in the wrong neighborhood, or driving a sports car. I've already admitted that I flew off the handle and I'm glad you're letting me live it down a little.

[quote]Originally posted by opiate:
<strong>

DAMN DUDE! Why don't you just shoot yourself in the face and get it over with?</strong><hr></blockquote>

And give them the satisfaction, NEVER.
La Resistance lives on!!!