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When the AMD 64's came out I heard a good deal about how they didn't work with all memory. I'm thinking of grabbing an AMD 64 soon and was hoping to use my old RAM with it (trying to save $$$).
I was wondering if anyone here had run into an issue or could explain what to look for so I don't run into an issue. I know using older RAM will slow the thing down a bit but $$$ is a factor.
Ram:
Corsair Value Select 512mb 2100 ddr
Might get:
MSI "K8T NEO-FSR" K8T800 Chipset
AMD Athlon 64 2800
http://forum.msi.com.tw/thread.php?threadid=51996
For MSI AMD 64 with VIA Chips, lots of user feedback and Memory Related stuff http://forum.msi.com.tw/board.php?boardid=24
ILTU, i know you want to save money, dont we all, but PC2100! :(
Maybe you'd consider getting newer memory later on, plz?
btw http://forums.windrivers.com/showthread.php?t=67825
Thanks techz.
My RAM isn't listed on the MSI site so I guess I'll find out when I try it.
And, yes I will upgrade it later on. Situation is that the GF's PC died and I'm giving her one of mine. I don't have the $$$ for this right now so it's get her an el cheapo replacement for about $100 or get me an upgrade for $200. With an upgrade for me she can get my old gaming PC so we can play some games together in the future.
Wouldn’t you be better to just wait? I mean, if you are going to spend the money now, and not reap the benefits because you are trying to save money and scrip on the ram (which may dramatically decrease performance), in essence you are also taking memory from a working system, leaving that system useless, you are shooting yourself in the foot twice. Tell me, are you planning on buying the 64 bit XP, or just going with the standard XP Pro? I mean this sincerely; you're wasting your money. Save it now, stick with what you've got...and in a few months when you're ready to get the whole package, prices should be down a bit, and you will still have your old system in tact, you can sell it, hand it down to a friend or family member, or something useful…just think about it man!
Also, Intel should be introducing all of their 64 bit products, and Microsoft will release the Intel version of XP64bit early next year. Wouldn’t it be nice to see what is offered on both sides of the fence before making the purchase!?!
Oh, well. If you'd have said that first, I wouldn't have posted such a long effort to change your mind. I would have just stuck with PPen...!Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheusers
Ya_K is right :eek:
Lotsa people are getting 64s and not being able to use it to the max, by the time the right stuff for consumers to reap benefits from it are out, its gonna be time to upgrade again. Its like when the first time the were giving HL2 Coupons, the guys who got that with their shiny new GFX cards had to upgrade AGAIN when HL2 actually came out.
Yeah but at that time I'll be forced to buy all new due to the sweeping chnages coming in the future (ddr2, pci express, btx).Quote:
Originally Posted by TechZ
I'm not crippling the PC by putting slower ram in for now. I'm not getting the maximum performance but then agin I save $100-200 for the time being. I'll grab a gig of new 400mhz RAM when $$$ permits this summer. The main idea for now is to get her back up and running.
Yeah man, but you can get a P4 2.8 and call it a day, save a few hundred, and still use all your old parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheusers
What's wrong with PCI Express and all the new fangled stuff...I'm rather excited for the coming year!
DDR2 still has ways to go before it really makes a huge diff in performance thanks to the bad timings, and the price WOW, PCIxpress is more common now, and a good thing too, BTW, well way off I think.
So ddr-2 is 533 btw & most AMD 64 boards don't take it anyway & they almost invariably take DDR 400 or pc3200 (obviously lower too) ... & I'm deeply puzzled just how much that'll save us over pc2100 ? or ddr 266 ? - not much ! pennies !?! (or are we using this from somewhere else ? At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense at all to be buying ddr 266 !)Quote:
Originally Posted by TechZ
& btw even ' el cheapo' ddr400 is now much better 'timing' wise than it was even a few months ago .. ;) .. though ..
& a p.s. as I used up 2 'btw' already ! :D .. p.s. those MSI boards, well anything with Via's K8T800 Chipset, are 'extra picky' for ram timings - even supposed 'superior stuff' (the stuff thats on their own 'approved' list ! :D) won't necessarily work - not my favourite board because of this ;)..
No way man, PCIE is the next thing since Serial ATA...it's standard in almost all of the new systems coming out, and will soon dominate the market...I give it until April and you won't see another AGP available system from Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway or IBM.Quote:
Originally Posted by TechZ
The P4 2.8 costs more than the AMD 64 by about $30 and looses in speed tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
I also spec'ed out an amd XP 2700 and mobo for about $150 that would not have an issue with the RAM for sure. I may go with that. The $50 is actually an issue but you know, dreams of the next gen CPU and all...
MSI "KT6V-LSR"(MS-7021) KT600 Chipset
AMD Athlon XP 2700
I was going to say that -ed. And was wondering why you werent going for the K8N variant?Quote:
just how much that'll save us over pc2100 ? or ddr 266 ?
Good Gratious! I thought you were kidding about the 64 bit prices, I had to look them up on Newegg...daiumn man! That's a great price! Go with the 64 bit, what the hell!
Quote:
Originally Posted by confus-ed
I already have the RAM. I'm NOT buying new RAM. I've got 2 x 512mb sticks of 2100 ddr right now. I know of the issue with the chipset being picky, why I posted. :)
I think the price of the 2700 and mobo is looking better now that I just ran over the bills for this month...
Ah-ha ! .. Glad we got that clear ;) ..eventually ! :D - so anything that takes 'normal' ddr is a possible then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheusers
This is a tricky question ! -at the moment my general 'upgrade advice' is 'don't -wait' ;) - but if thats not 'practical' I might be mooching on ebay for some 'stop gap' - whatever you do do will be a compromise one way or another ! - if you want 'new' then the latest 'semperons' (the ones with 512k of l2 cache) on a socket a board are probably 'best bang for ecconomy buck' just right now ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by confus-ed
I've actually decided on the XP 2700 solution. No issues there and it's $50 cheaper.
enjoy ILTU!
You could always get a socket 939 A64 with a board that supports dual channel, that way you dont completely starve the cpu. PC2100 in dual channel gives a 4.2GBPS theoretical bandwidth
Yeah he could & blow his budget right out of the window :p - the board for that is gonna cost almost as much as some low end xp/semperon & socket A board - never mind for a 'real' 64 bit chip as well ! :)..Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Dreamer
..Though if he'd had a little more cash this may very well be 'best' ;)
(rough sums on this would be $100 for 'bottom' socket A & board vs $200 for 'bottom' socket 939 & chip - not my call, but if you have to wait until next month to be able to manage that, I'd say it was well worth the wait ! :thumbs: )
(by way of 'explain' AMD 64 comes in two flavours, 'nearly 64' which lives on socket 754 & 'nearer 64' {still can't 'really' say 64 bit as the feeds eg. the pci bus aren't !} which comes on socket 939 boards ).
my only question is will an AGP 4X work in an 8X board ?
ATI 7500 AIW AGP 2X/4X @ 1.5/3.3 Volts, AGP 8X = 1.5 V this should work
Opinions on VIA chipsets, nForce ? (not a big VIA fan, remember the days of appolo = appaling)
Have no idea what im doing.. Possible Intel Convert here, and dont know what Im looking for, just it better be good!
so far it looks like the intel solution will be cheaper!
530 P4 on Gigabyte GA-8IPE775-G = $585
AMD 64 939
on MSI K8T = $577
on MSI K8N = $655
on ASUS A8V Dulux = $610
on Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP = $700
so what are the advanatages of the 64?
MSI boards are great, so are ASUS,Gigabyte.
AGP4x should work on a 8x board, but sometimes it depends on the card.
And again it depends on how much money you want to spend.
planning on using Kingston KVR400X64C3A/512's (PC3200/DDR400) in all solutions.
Im assuming that pairing these up will get me dual channel with out tearing my arm off to pay for the dual channel kits
Ps last post got edited instead of replyed to thread.
How are you comparing the two CPUs?
It all depends on which P4/AMD64 you go for RM. And choose the CPU based on what youre requirements are, instead on spending money unnecessarily.
no requirements (other than affordable, VISA getting close to MAX), I just need to get going again. (upgarding from P3-600 after failed attempt to upgrade to P3-1000)Quote:
Originally Posted by TechZ
Looking for most bang for my $$ using the old parts, and figured i might give AMD a shot seeing as how Intel dosent want to deal with 64 at this time.
Given the prices and my needs I think I'll stick with what I know, and go with the Intel platform.
Damn the bastards that sold me the flacky socket 370 board will not accept a return if it dont work! It never worked, and its brand new!
Screwed by yet another local retailer, I guess the new sytem is out of the question now that I can't get the $$ back on this defective part.
Hang on a mo .. you obviously haven't been to the 'school of effective complaining' ! Getting 'screwed' by post/web purchases I can relate to & sympathise with as generally there's SFA (that's uk slang for 'nothing' but a little stronger) you can do about it ..Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectionMan
.. but 'local' & 'retailer' ? Get yourself stood in that shop & SHOUT about how 'bad' they are until either the police turn up & back you up (assuming you've got proof of purchase) or the shop gives in & does the right thing ..
(I thought it was us 'english' that are supposed to be 'pooh' at complaining for fear of creating a 'fuss' - seems its universal ;))
Cops won't do you any good. If the retailer calls the cops, they will escort the loudmouth out. They will either ask you to leave, or arrest you for trespassing, usually they will give you the choice. If you have a formal complaint, they will instruct you to get a good lawyer, and a judge to see things your way. Otherwise, cops won't back you up.Quote:
Originally Posted by confus-ed
Different laws applicable methinks he says immediately having some 'second thoughts' ! ;) - Here the police can't arrest you for trespass (its a civil offence not a criminal one, so not 'arrestable') but here they might do you for 'causing a breach of the peace' ( the policemans 'catch all') however once it got to court the policeman would look most foolish in this respect as given UK law the retailer would have infact been committing the only offence by refusing a refund on an item 'not fit for purpose' & thus it was the shop 'in breach of the peace' by refusing a reasonable request for refund ..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ya_know
.. but whatever the why's & wherefore's if its a shop then get your behind in there & make a performance out of it to at least 'try' & get your pennies back !
Just letting them have your money for poor stuff is letting yourself get 'screwed' (sometimes thats a good thing :D, most definately ;) - but not here with this meaning surely !?)
I talked them into "testing the board for faults" It still hasen't posted on my VISA so I think Ill refute the charges if they dont go my way and just leave them the board.
Wish I could find that recept!
I have all my receipts and always have gotten replacements/money back on defective stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectionMan
Why not just RMA the board to the maker? Wait, that's like a 4 year old board isn't it? I hope you didn't pay more than $20 for it.
Also, I got the MSI board with the 2700. I now feel I should explain how my house runs.
See, I have 2 PC's, 1 for "stuff" and one for games. The kid has a PC and the GF has a crap PC for e-mail/web surfing/vpn to work where she works via pro com(telnet). The IDE channels on the motherboard are giving odd errors and the unitwill not accept a controller card (it just grey screens when I put one in any socket). She's wanted the ability to play games on her PC for some time and in order to do so it would be good to have something semi decent. In the interrim I'm give her my web surfing/test bed machine and I'm going to utilize a lot of spare parts from earlier upgrades to have this set up for myself:
Video/Photo Editing and Entertainment:
2.0mhz P4
asus p4b533
Matrox G550
512mb 2100 ddr
2x80gb raid0 7200rpm
120gb 7200rpm
3com NIC
dvd
cd burner
Thermaltake 420 PSU
Maxtop case
Games:
Athlon XP 2700
MSI KT6V-LSR
ati 9800 pro
512mb 2100 ddr
160gb 7200rpm
dvd
Fortron 350 PSU
She has:
800mhz athlon
abit kt7a-raid
sb live value
ati rage fury
512mb 100mhz sdram
3com NIC
ibm 120 gb 7200rpm
Generic 400watt
Generic Tower
In the future when she wants to start gaming with me (presently her schedule prohibits this) she will get my gaming PC and I will just up and get a whole new next gen rig. Her old PC goes to her mother and the cycle of PC's begins all over again.
So, I bought the stuff below for less than $300 and played with the configuration of all the machines in my house to accomidate this stuff and I make out in the end:
Athlon XP 2700
MSI KT6V-LSR
160gb 7200rpm
bought that board brand new for way to much. Thats waht they told me it was, and I'm going to be damn sure to get atleast 1 year of waranty on it or im going to go nuts on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectionMan
Oh. You can still get them brand new - see HERE (Just an example, I hate PC-Chips). I meant if it was used that you should not have paid real $$ for it.
If you already have the other parts of the PC, this does make a nice way to keep costs down.
Who is the manufacturer of the board? If it's new there should be a manufacturer's warranty on it and you should be able to RMA it to them. :thumbs:
Its a DFI CA64-BC
All the components with the exception of the CPU work fine in an older BX440 based board.
With this new board and used CPU (on a new XP install) will crash under the following conditions:
After installing SP2
After installing WiFi card driver
After installing Catylst drivers for 7500 AIW
Regualry screws up IDE device detection on secondary channel (CDRW or DVD drive detected as gobbly gook aka AOpen DVD = Agerwt $#@ or Sony CD-RW = S$%@GFSGD)
Regularly Crashes when accessing devices attached to Seconary IDE
Ran MPrime on CPU - it crashed
Hardware:
P3- 700 (not over clocked) operating at 25 degrees C
Radeon 7500 AIW
Promise ATA100TX2
Dlink NIC
LinkSys WiFi - G
3X 256 MB PC 133
WD 80 GB SE
Fujitsu 8 GB
Sony 8X CDRW
AOpen 16X DVD
so its either this board or the CPU (which Im stuck with)
lesson learned: dont dick around upgrading to old technoogy from older tech, just go to current and be done with it. Watch them void the warranty for attaching chipset cooling.... (which it should have as every other board with the same chipset has!)
rant
Why dose my @$$ always hurt after delaling with local retailers? (probaly because I started in retail and know what its like to have a customer blow up, so I dont do that, I just report them the the BBB, the chamber of commerce, and post bad reviwes of their business... maybe I should just blow up.)
/rant
So I know I told you to go & have a rant in the shop ;), but now reading your 'full circumstances' I've got to ask, just how sure are you, on that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectionMan
From what you describe in the rest of your post, I'd say lots of other things first before concluding that & the only certain way is to test all the bits seperately by swapping out, unless you have specialist equipment & bench tech skills ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectionMan
Just a couple quick questions.
Have you run a memory tester line memtest86 on it yet and what sort of PSU do you have?
No memory tests run, memory is also from the BX440 board (yes I know it only supports PC100, but PC133 works and was cheaper, memory was also run in a Slot A Anthalon system with no "apperent" problems) Slot processors are my specialty, worked as a retail tech for 2 years when they were first coming out, and then went to school and network major. Have all the book learning to go with "hard skills" now, so I just have to get caught up on the Technology again (aka 64 Bit processors! holy crap!) getting educated realy means your paying someone to have no life.Quote:
All the components with the exception of the CPU work fine in an older BX440 based board.
PS is Enermax 350, possible that its a tad light on the Watts, but if that was the case then it should have worked striped down to video, cpu and RAM.
sure that its the board, or that im stuck with the CPU? (bought the processor used over a month ago, have been messing with a Slocket adapter (between being sick and wreking my car) and gave up and sprung for this board. Im deffinalty not going to be able to recover costs on the CPU, I'll be happy if I can back out of the Mother Board.)Quote:
So I know I told you to go & have a rant in the shop , but now reading your 'full circumstances' I've got to ask, just how sure are you, on that ?
I had to post that dual channel is NOT a reason to go with 939...there are other reasons. Dual channel benchmarks say it all. I bought a socket 754...but then again I bought a couple months ago. They're right about the memory thing...latency makes a HUGE difference in performance with the AMD processors unlike the Intel chips. That Kingston (that's what u have correct) will be 2100 AND crappy latency on top of that. You are on the right track for the 2700 if you can't afford memory too....and nevermind BTX....it will be many years before it becomes a real standard...it's not even in the roadmap for AMD and they don't plan on implementing it.
Joe
Dual channel IS a reason, although it may not provide the same performance that say Super Ultra Ballistix XMS PC 56,039,304 will, it does have some impactQuote:
Originally Posted by FireAm94