Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
I don't need an excuse you ***********. So back off.
"It is a mindless retort in an effort to spark rage and anxiety..."
. . . Ya_Know
**** Edited by NooNoo
Printable View
Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
I don't need an excuse you ***********. So back off.
"It is a mindless retort in an effort to spark rage and anxiety..."
. . . Ya_Know
**** Edited by NooNoo
No what I said was that multiple persons recalling events of decades past in different locations at different times runs contrary to basic human recollection habits and skills. Therefore there must have been a non-human factor involved. And since they did not have the postal service or the Internet at the time, the mechanism could not have been man-made.Quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
Again, you're essentially saying that because some people wrote the same thing as each other that proves it must have been God's doing. I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Have you ever taken Logic in school? If you had, you would realize that your argument is spurious.
And I did take logic in college (philosophy 201 at my alma mater). I made an A-. ;)
I doubt they would have written it at all. Except maybe Paul. Had he not become a Christian, he was on a fast road to becoming some sort of demagogue.Quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
Hmmm, dya think if they had known they might have written it differently? :D
Man, that's a whole 'nother thread. :DQuote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
Ah, but it is interesting to see how much OTHER written history disagrees with the Bible, to say nothing of archaeological findings...
To say that the Bible is imperfect solely because it's authors were sinners is a blatant ad hominum (boy there's a memory from my logic class that just belched its way into my brain!) You are seeking to impune the logic by discrediting the source. The reality is that God used good and evil people alike to execute his will and relay his message. Many believe that God probably used Hitler's vicious attrocities against the Jews to galvanize the world in support of a State of Israel. Others say that God is using the horrible events of 9/11 to wake us up to the understanding that we live in a violent world were some small groups of radicals really want to see all Americans and Israelis dead.Quote:
Aren't you essentially admitting that the Bible is imperfect here?
I realize I will probably get flamed for those last two remarks, so flame on :flame:
Someone said in an earlier post that the validity and credibility of scripture and Christian belief cannot be validated 100% by science and logic. This is absolutely true. There is a third element...faith. Hebrews describes faith as the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". The concept of faith has eluded the collective human consciousness since the beginning of time and will continue to do so until the end of time (whenever that eventually occurs). Because man has a free will to accept God or reject God, they must take a step forward on their own to accept God. That step is faith. Without faith all we are left discussing are insignificant events that happened in the armpit of the Roman Empire 2000 years ago.
One of the best analogies for faith I know of is the wind. You cannot see the wind itself with your eyes, but you can see the effects of the wind....trees brustling, flags flapping, tornados, etc.
So in the end I must concede that I do not know all the answers and never will (in this life). I continue to work to increase my knowledge about the credibility of the Bible while working to apply the principals taught therein.
I am withdrawing from this thread at this point in time. It is clear to me that nothing my "opponents" in this discussion have to say will convince me of their point of view, and they seem to have made it clear that they will not be convinced of mine either. Therefore any further discussion of the subject by or with me can only serve to inflame.
I am not requesting that this topic be closed (unless it later devolves and needs it anyways.) You guys can continue to debate, discuss, get in last words, whatever. But I'm out for now.
I am truly saddened by many of the things I have read in this thread. I don't want to read any more.
Clam why do you need to change anothers point of view? Surely that is exactly what you were arguing against - the imposition of one persons view on another.....?Quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
I am withdrawing from this thread at this point in time. It is clear to me that nothing my "opponents" in this discussion have to say will convince me of their point of view, and they seem to have made it clear that they will not be convinced of mine either. Therefore any further discussion of the subject by or with me can only serve to inflame.
I am not requesting that this topic be closed (unless it later devolves and needs it anyways.) You guys can continue to debate, discuss, get in last words, whatever. But I'm out for now.
I am truly saddened by many of the things I have read in this thread. I don't want to read any more.
If discussion were only to serve to change anothers viewpoint very soon we would have no opposing viewpoints to discuss!
The very best you could hope for in a discussion topic like this is an understanding of each view and perhaps the reasoning behind that view.
True, true...Quote:
Originally posted by NooNoo
If discussion were only to serve to change anothers viewpoint very soon we would have no opposing viewpoints to discuss!
The very best you could hope for in a discussion topic like this is an understanding of each view and perhaps the reasoning behind that view.
Awww crap I wanted to stay gone...
All right, no religious/gay comments, I will stick to answering NooNoo.
I don't agree with you at all NooNoo. I'll admit that I came into this conversation believing that my point of view was the better one, and that others needed to be "converted" to my point of view.
However, I actually do pay attention to the other person's comments in a debate, and listen with an open mind. I have no pride issues whatsoever about backing down and changing sides if they present a convincing case. I honestly gave some thought to the comments about the Bible being divinely inspired because of the synchronicity of writings. It does seem an interesting fact, and I think it points to something, but I don't think that that something is proof that the Bible is an accurate picture of God's word and will.
So in this case, I don't like the logic behind the other side's reasoning, and will admit I am very troubled by the "feel" of the other side's position as well. It does indeed smack of hatemongering. So I have made my best attempts to explain what I think is wrong with the other side's position. Now, the other side continues to disagree with me. That's their prerogative. How have I imposed my will on them, if they still disagree with me? How have I imposed my will on them if I back off from the argument, and they still have their point of view?
On this occasion you haven't imposed your will, but you did, by your own admission start this entire thread with the intention to change peoples views.Quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Clam
How have I imposed my will on them, if they still disagree with me? How have I imposed my will on them if I back off from the argument, and they still have their point of view?
That is obvious throughout the thread. Rather than to continue to gain understanding through questioning you withdrew, that could be seen as cutting your losses.Quote:
made it clear that they will not be convinced of mine either
Before you made the statement about withdrawing from the thread you made no admission that you had gained an understanding of the "other side" as you put it.
It's as simple as this. I find homosexuality as disgusting and offensive as bestiallity, statutory rape and child molesting. While I grant you that the latter is probably a stretch, people who defend these acts all consider it to be their "sexual prefference" and that it's "the way they that they were born."
People have tried for years to convince me otherwise, but I have yet to hear an argument that has accomplished that. You wanted a non-religious reason? There it is. :D
That is exactly what I am doing. Cutting my losses. And I am 100% aware that I did not say I gained some understanding of the "other side" here, and I don't intend to change that at this time.Quote:
Originally posted by NooNoo
Rather than to continue to gain understanding through questioning you withdrew, that could be seen as cutting your losses.
Before you made the statement about withdrawing from the thread you made no admission that you had gained an understanding of the "other side" as you put it.
Well, no. No you didn't give a reason. Simply comparing it to a different behavior is not a reason.Quote:
Originally posted by meatwad
It's as simple as this. I find homosexuality as disgusting and offensive as bestiallity, statutory rape and child molesting. While I grant you that the latter is probably a stretch, people who defend these acts all consider it to be their "sexual prefference" and that it's "the way they that they were born."
People have tried for years to convince me otherwise, but I have yet to hear an argument that has accomplished that. You wanted a non-religious reason? There it is. :D
See homosexuality is a choice 2 consenting adults make to love one another. The rest of your examples involve one party who forces another party into a sexual act. In the case of statutory rape it may not be forced or coerced but it is with someone who is fairly unable to make decisions to engage in sexual activities as they may be too young and unexperienced to make decisions on their own.
I think you may be confusing sex with love.
So you still haven't answered. Maybe I'm being impatient but I really want to know.Quote:
Originally posted by Ya_know
I don't need an excuse. So back off.
If you can't make a statement about why you dislike homosexuality that is not a commandment from a deity then I have to contend that it is prejudice for the sake of prejudice. I'm not imune to it myself at times and I'm not trying to say you are an evil person but if your only reason is "because" then I have to make the assumption you are a bigoted individual. Either that or you know you have no real argument that can be backed up with fact and do not wish to confront that part of your personality that harbors prejudice.
I was a little hesitant to post that I'm not sure how to soften it up. Oh, and what you said before about us picking your argument to pieces. Yeah, I'll probably do it even if i say I will not. If you contend that your argument is right and valid then you should not be afraid to defend it.
There are no smileys for "I'm really not trying to tick you off".
Sure there is, I believe this one ties in nicely with this topic :kiss:Quote:
Originally posted by ilovetheusers
There are no smileys for "I'm really not trying to tick you off".
tony :wave:
I'm sorry ILTU. I didn't realize homosexuals don't have sex. I take everything back. :DQuote:
Originally posted by ilovetheusers
Well, no. No you didn't give a reason. Simply comparing it to a different behavior is not a reason.
See homosexuality is a choice 2 consenting adults make to love one another. The rest of your examples involve one party who forces another party into a sexual act. In the case of statutory rape it may not be forced or coerced but it is with someone who is fairly unable to make decisions to engage in sexual activities as they may be too young and unexperienced to make decisions on their own.
I think you may be confusing sex with love.
I guess ya'll don't wanna here about my weekend down at the farm:confused: