[RESOLVED] Windows 98 SE - Steer Clear Of It

I am now running on Win98 SE, and using ICS. It wasn't easy, but here is how I did it . . .

I opted for the upgrade vs full install -- so for all you guys who did do formats, this may not work.

As I said above, I did the upgrade, so I was left with all my old software i.e. wingate 3.01. After the initial upgrade, wingate seemed to be causing problems with ICS. I did an uninstall, but that didn't seem to fix the problem. I figured the problem must be in my network configuration.

I have Cogent 6911/tx 10/100 networking cards. Cogent was bought out by Adaptec, who produced the same card for some time, and therefore supports it. Naturally, I have every version of the drivers released for this card, but I found that 98 SE's drivers (for an intel 21140 based card) worked better than those supplied by Adaptec. LESSON #1 -- if Microsoft has the driver for your hardware, use that driver when you have problems.

There were a few more problems with my network config. I use(d) static I/P addresses. No particular reason, I just like knowing which PC has what i/p address. I cant get this to work with ICS. There is probably something I am overlooking, but I cant seem to find what.

On my client PC's, I have tcp/ip configured to use DHCP for WINS resolution. They are all configured to obtain i/p addresses automatically, and have dns disabled. I dont understand how ICS works with these settings, but it does. (but that is not all it took go sort things out) LESSON #2 -- let windows use it's defaults EVERYWHERE. It will do most things automatically.

Uninstall ICS on your host machine until you have EVERYTHING else on your machine working properly. After that, install ICS. It will assign a static i/p address of 192.168.0.1 and a Subnet of 255.255.255.0 to your host machine. Everything else will remain set as default.

note: I don't know if this is relevant or not, but every time I unsuccessfully installed ICS, my dial adapter (device to share) was prefixed with #1 but my network adaptor (device to share with) wasn't. When I finally got ICS to work, the dial up adapter was #1, and my network card was #2. Maybe this is not relevant, but in the help, the adapters listed are numbered, so if yours aren't, you may have a problem.

After installing and messing around for several hours, I did some registry work. hkey_local_machine\enum is a good one to delete. It will clear out all the information about your hardware, and bring windows back to the "detect hardware" state. This is useful if you add and remove a lot of hardware, and want to "clean up" your registry. This will also eliminate any custom driver settings, which can sometimes cause problems. I also deleted a lot of hardware related descriptions from the hkey_local_machine\system\currentcontrolset\servic es section. as always, backup your registry before doing anything screwey to it.

In my opinion, Win 98 SE is the toughest Windows 98 build yet!! I have been successful with every function in the operating system AND it doesn't crash anywhere near as much as win98 v1998. I'm running an o/c AMD K6-2 420mhz 128mb CAAS-2 memory, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live, Adaptec 2940 UW SCSI Card, and SMC 9432 nic....my system flies!!! Internet sharing via Direc PC between 2 Win 98 SE machines and a Win 2k build 2057 (which I use for all my audio mixing, and drum machines) and then my and my rooommate's 4 laptops that we bring back and forth from work.
My hugest suggestion is that you do a fresh clean install...and not overwriting files, but actually format your drive, get drivers for hardware made in late 1998 and 1999 only because that stuff has updated drivers all the time, and then just run setup from a dos prompt and you will be up and running in 45 minutes. (Or 22 if you create your own install script because you install your operating system so many damn times!! And its cool to run setup and have every peripheral detected and software installed for it.)
So, Win 98 SE is cool, Windows 2000 is going to be the God's operating system!! What can Win 2000 offer me?? Games that run off a Dual Processor computer with 4 disk Raid-Array, 3DFx enhanced games with true life enviornmental audio!!! Pretty Fu(<|ng tough if you ask me!!
So install Win 98 build 2222 Second Edition and enjoy what MS SHOULD have released instead of Win98 build 1998...but it was convienent that Windows 98 carried a build number of 1998....too bad Windows 2000 wasn't ready by build 2000.... Then we can have Windows 2000 second edition also! =)

YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAH MICROSOFT!

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(¯`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·-=SchmilK=-·´¯`·.¸¸¸.·´¯)

LINUX?

W98 on the whole is better than W95, however, seems to cause problems with A/Bit TX boards (IDE controller stops working occasionally) and Adobe Photoshop4 seems to crash more regulary. Mustek USB video camera (VC-100) software doesnt work correctly. Twain drivers fail to switch between SCSI scanner, Miro PCTV pro and USB video camera on some software, thus devices have to be manually disabled in control panel

Fresh install on a 80Mb RAM home built PC.

It's somewhat amusing to read some of these "feedback" letters concerning the release of Windows98 SE. The one that really made an impression on me was the one from Darren Wilson (this guy's a moderator???!)
Before anybody jumps on me for being one of Gates' lackeys, allow me to pose the question "How can someone who doesn't take the time to check their spelling possibly have the attention to detail that's necessary to troubleshoot an operating system?"
It's also worth noting that most of the people who experience problems installing a new OS are people who slam their systems together out of Third-World parts that the pick up at some trade show. HINT: If you use substandard components, chances are that you'll end up with a ****ty computer. Try opening the ol' spring-loaded wallet & pop for some quality hardware before you blame the software. This is especially tragic in cases where the individual is supposed to be a "computer professional". I can almost forgive end users for being dumb enough to buy their computers from Wal-Mart, but if you're allegedly doing this **** for a living, you're supposed to know MORE than the end user. Sadly, this is not always the case and that's what really pisses me off sometimes. There are so many people who fall victim to scam artists claiming to be professionals who clearly don't know **** about computers.
All that aside, I'd lay wager that damn few of those who are so quick to point the finger at Microsoft for releasing unreliable products are smart enough to run an alternative OS, like Linux. It's also worth noting that you don't see many scathing letters here from software testers or system administrators; these are the people who have enough pride in their abilities to use their brain and find a solution, rather than whine about it. Get a clue. Sure, Windows has its share of drawbacks . . . but let’s not forget that it was designed for people who would have to attend 6 months of night school just to evolve an opposable thumb. Lighten up, already or just run Unix.

AMD K6-2 350 on a FIC 503+ with 32 meg ram
Installed flawlessly on a fresh install.

Plus

AMD K6 300 on an intel tx m/b with 96meg ram
Again installed fine on a fresh install and on an upgrade to original win98

I must be doing something wrong???

In response to Havoc.

I don't see you offering any suggestions on solving these problems that people are having. For Gods Sake this must be your first time here as you are not even registered!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of slating the users who are having problems , why don't you offer some help instead or are you just one of the normal end users who want to be a tech but know ****???????

Before you start slating people , get to know them. I have been in this industry now for 9 years, Beta Tested Win95, 98 and am now on Win2K, just finished and passed with flying colours the latest Microsoft MCSE for the Windows family, so before you start telling people that they know nothing I would look at yourself first.

I have been working ( after giving them loads of grief )indepth with Microsoft over the phone, this week ,on the problems that I have been having & they know that there s some flaws in the Internet Connection Sharing section of SE, which they are working on now for a patch . I know that it is not me now , so how small do you feel Hav0c????? https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif

As stated before my system is ' rock solid ' with all previous versions of windows ( including 2000 beta's ) & I certainly do not use sub-standard parts. Yet SE still falls over a the drop of a hat, even with all the latest drivers & patches.

Obviously Hav0c cannot ( or will not ) help people out who need it ( unlike most of us , and just wants to create **** ( which is what his name suggests anyway ).

Hav0c , why don't you register like the rest of us, or are you like the rest of the wannabe's who think they know but don't????

This message is not a ' flame ' but a response in annoyance to somebody who is not willing to take the time to help others.

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Who got game???? I know I do!!!!!!!

visit me @ http://www.ace-computers.co.uk

[This message has been edited by Darren Wilson (edited June 09, 1999).]

If you install Win98SE you will need to update the Adaptec software that comes with HP's CDR (8100). It is a pain to find the solution. Also, it won't work the way it used to on the plain old Win98. You will see differences.

BTW, anyone get the M$ Force Feedback wheel working on Win2000?

To think that I actually logged on to this forum thinking that I might learn something. Imagine that. I already know how to curse, point fingers and run other people down. Gentlemen please.
What happened to the powertoys and tweak in this version? They are NOT included in the reskit as they were in Windows98. A disk search for tweak came up empty. I installed tweak from my Windows98 CD and my system would not reboot to windows. Thinking I fouled the OS I removed it while in safe mode. I have alot of peripherals in USB operating on a Super 7 VIA chipset FIC PA-2013 motherboard. When I installed windows from a newly Low Level formatted disk I had two unsuccessful installs (system hang at hardware detection). Experience prompted me to format and start again, although a recovery was certainly possible. Win98 SE did NOT properly recognize my ADS, PCI/USB buscard. I could not remove the yellow flag until I physically removed the card rebooted and then reinstalled. This is an old PCI device trick so nothing new here as far as hardware support. My OS now recognizes the buscard. Yes, I disconnected the USB devices before I installed Win98 SE.
I was a little disappointed at first, moving from Win 98 to Win98 SE didn't seem to make much of a difference initially.
It does seem that the SE OS is very sensitive to hardware configuraion, ie: the subnet mask on my USB/Etherlink cable modem worked perfectly with Win98. In Win98 SE the connection kept crashing so I called my service provider and tecnical told me to change from 255 to 252, like magic....no more problem with the internet connection.
It is necesary to install all the patches filters and drivers for the VIA chipset (no change here).
The up side is that it seems like every time I boot up the system, the system performs a little better. I'm impressed with the color display, the speed of my internet connection and the general, slight boost in the system performance.
I'm disappointed that the OS is so sensitive and requires a very exact hardware setup...I thought that this was one of the problems that SE was supposed to fix.
Serafin is right about Adaptec direct CD it needs to be upgraded to version 2.5d you can download it here:

http://www.adaptec.com/support/overview/ecdc.html

I would appreciate reading about your experiences with Windows98 SE. This version is not supported and comes with NO manual...maybe we can help each other. I think that this new OS shows real promise.

Jeff

A friend of mine and I were talking on IRC tonight and he was in the process of finishing up installing win98 SE on another computer beside him. He had a problem with his hardware not being detected and had to manually install most of his drivers and also the Internet Connection Sharing feature did not work. He installed the feature along with SE. He found that after removing it and reinstalling it, he was able to create the client disk and get ICS to work properly. The trick might be to get windows installed, get your nic card set up and working properly then install ICS from control panel add/remove.

I'm going to buy SE tomorrow (I made a nice fresh ghost image of my current install should I wish to roll back without losing too much time after I'm done playing)

I have more fun with windows itself than any of my games. I wouldn't miss this new one for the world : - )

Grogan

I like Havoc, also do not really understand people like yourself Darren. You claim to be a man that has mass experience and knows all about computers and wow, you run a Bulletin Board in the internet but, you bitch and moan about how your computer wont accept Win98SE and blame it on Microsoft just because your comp runs fine under ANY other conditions/OS. Yet if you were to read some of these replies to your troubles you would see that SOME of us have NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER with Win98SE. So you see, it cant be Win98SE that is the problem because Microsoft has released it, and it works for most. MOST I use because of course for some Lamers who take a couple of tests and put a couple of computers together all of the sudden think they know all and when they run into a peoblem, Like Havoc said, dont Troubleshoot the issue. Instead they go right after the Software and point fingers. Please. Anyway'z, Im not going to sit here and go off about how I know all and have taken the same tests that U have and passed with flying colors (Which anyone who can read and takes the time to read the whole book can pass). I will also not say that I have been in Computer Tech Support for the last 10 years doing this very thing just about everyday which is TROUBLESHOOTING... You complain about how people here dont give you any help... I can tell you that if you were to call me and we had these troubles over the phone, I would have you send your system inhouse to be repaired because you have obviously done something to the system that has caused this problem because this exact OS works for our other 100,000+ customers... https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif
(Yes IM not a registered user, thats because I dont dedicate all of my time to little bulletin boards on the internet because it is a useless task. I did this little reply just because I found the page and decided to do so)

the problem here is simple. everybody wants a stable, secure, and problem free os. right? well, i've tried several os's (everything from msdos 1.x to sun's solaris 7) on several different hardware configurations. it seems that every hardware platform has an os that works flawlessly and fast everytime. best of all it is free. in other words, quit bitching about the mighty bill gates and start laughing at these posts from a linux point of view. like me :-)

Seeker...

Yes it wants you NIC driver disk. You've probably got an unsupported card and it needs the drivers included with it.

I haven't even tried 98SE, But I want to say..
I can't believe you newbies to this board are
putting Darren down like this....did you even read thru any of the other forums here? He tries to help as many people as he can, and he does seem to really know what he's talking about. He's disgusted especially because MS didn't give him support when he needed it, and rightfully so. Every tech I know gets aggravated to death at times and bitches about software and hardware and looks for or desparately needs help. Geez. Make your point, but you don't have to be rude. The one thing I really can't stand about this field is all the self-righteous, condescending, pompous people that seem to be in it... and I don't mean the users. Lighten up.




[This message has been edited by JeanneD (edited June 12, 1999).]

I just became registered, but I would like to respond to what is going on in the group. First of all it seems Havoc and his lil friend are very like minded even to the extent of being the same person. hmmm.. One never knows, and it used to happen alot on a old bbs I was on. I don't know what Microsoft products you use, but most of them has at least one serious issue with anyones computer. What other product family can you name with more security bugs? What do you call the problems alot of people had with IE 4 and its install and uninstall? Did you like directx 1-3? I am not saying microsoft is not making any good software, but I am saying it is not perfect. I myself now will be waiting on Windows 98 SE, and maybe just skipping to Windows 2k(y 2k? https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif ). Under some circumstances I would have agreed it was hardware failure, but given that several other OS's in the past had run with no problems leads me to believe it is the OS flaking out. Lastly I believe in response to Havoc's remarks on unix that it is not for every one, and just because I prefer windows 9x, or NT v.x, 3.x because of it's usefullness to me does it make me any less of a technician? No.. if my hardware had drivers for linux I would do it but why should I? I like my Apha Centari. In fact I and most pc useres very capable of running linux, or any other unproductive(to me) OS. It all just comes down to what we like and have a need of. That is just my two cents. Just for your info I am running a duel boot Win 98/Be O$ 4.

TheDon

[This message has been edited by TheDon (edited June 10, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by TheDon (edited June 10, 1999).]