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Did you feel like the A+ spent too much effort on old stuff? Dos, Win 3.1, pre-pentium systems?
Not to be a snob, but I go where the money is, if a potential client is using DOS/Win 3.1 and are not calling me because they want all new stuff, I decline the project. I figure if they are still using old stuff to save money, they can't afford me https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif
It does seem arrogant, but my first rule is "Don't work for anyone that can't afford you."
But the point is, I don't want to refresh or re-learn junk about pre-pentium systems anyway. Upgrading drives in a 486? Why? Tell them it won't cut y2k and let em bite the bullet. . . .trust me they will thank you later. I think a big problem is most people using older systems don't appreciate how much better new systems really are. . .
Sorry for the rant.
DE
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I think the old stuff should be phazed out completely in the real world as well as on the tests. I was just watching Pirates of Silicon Valley and I was highly intrigued with the very first computers Apple and IBM built. Then I time warped back to the present and told myself lets get on with it!
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A+ is CRAP!! Everything said above about bogus questions and insanely wrong training materials is true. My employer forced me to take/pass this joke of a test. About the only thing I got out of it is that the default IRQ for LPT2 is IRQ5. It really did have numerous questions/supposed answers that were just flat wrong. Also be aware that just because it is a published "preparation" book on A+ - it does NOT mean the answers within it are correct. Sad but true... FYI: I did pass both core and Win and I will try to help out with any questions/concerns.
Shawn
[email protected]
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I think you all are missing the point. I have been in this business for over 10 years. The trends I have noticed are that technicians A+ or not are a dime a dozen. I have several of each working for me now. With the comodization of PCs there is hardly any profit margin left in computers. At the rate it's going you will be able to buy PCs for the cost of a good VCR. Hell, the prices are already in the range of a mid range sound system. If you don't believe me check out www.buy.com or www.onsale.com. Computers are becomming disposable commodities and in the next 5 years will be disposable. I think the industry will be where pagers and cell phones are today in less than 5 years. When was the last time you paid someone to fix a boom box, a pager or cell phones? These were very lucrative industries just a few short years ago. Also with the advances in software technologies the need for MCSE's will also dwindle. Software wizzards will allow even the computer idiot to manage sophisticated networks. Which brings me to my point. If you want to be smart, the money in this industry will be for those who can write code. My advice is learn VB, C++ and Java in that order. If you can muster a reasonable level of proficency in these languages then you can write your own check. And as long as computers exist there will always be a job for those who can make them do what people want them to do. So my advice is if you like this industry and want to remain gainfully employed learn to program or look for a new career field.
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Hello. A little insite from a diffrent field.
I am a journeyman/interprovincial automotive service technition (mechanic). In my field we have to take 4 years of training in 3month stints each year, as well as a minimum of...i think it's 8000 hours practical exsperience, before we can get our ticket.
ok, so i got a ticket. or certification. big deal. there are some guys in my shop with no papers, and they run rings around me. on the other hand i can run rings around some of the guys that have had thier papers for a long time.
I have been working at my own bussiness for the last 3 years, repairing p.c's. I have friends that are I.T's, and others that are just savy about p.c's.
It is thanks to THIS site, that i have as much knowledge that i do( not that it is much mind you)
so what does all of this have to do with a+?
no certificate is worth the paper it is printed on, if the person that holds it didn't work for it and earn it, and as well, that person has to respect what the certificate is suppost to represent,and take pride in his work, but also know that he will never stop learning about his field.
it's just a piece of paper, yes, but you have to believe in it for it to do any good.
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ok... I am A+ Certified and in my eyes and the eyes of the customers that come into my shop I am pretty darn quick to troubleshoot/pinpoint a problem in a pc..
the test was the only way I was to get a raise and of course now I have a pretty piece of paper that looks good on the wall.
I agree with the lot of you that said the prep manuals/ cds suck.. the one I used gave wrong interupts for com ports etc etc. Glad to know I knew the truth.
I've learned more on this site than in any manual. If windrivers.com were to go down I'd really be in a pinch (and so would the rest here probably).
Jeremy
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just checking out the comments on the A+ cert stuff and had a funny story. My old boss wanted me to take the A+ coarse for the simple fact our shop could say A+ certified. When I went to the class I ended up having to repair two of the PC's in the training room because the instuctor had no clue. Many of the "facts" he was teaching were just plain wrong. I tried inserting my two cents here and there and was just told I was wrong. I left in the middle of the second class and just prayed that the poor people in there some how get the right info someday.
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I've been working with computers since I was 13, had my own business at 19, and at 25 finally decided I needed to get a certification. Not to show to my employer, because I was my own employer. Rather, I wanted the paper to show to the client. The company I work for today hires a lot of techs without paper because they realize the value of experience over book study. However, they stress certifications because it sells. When we pull a contract for someone like IBM or Bell Atlantic, they look at certs and reach into their pockets. Its as simple as that. For me, the certifications I hold today, in conjunction with my years of experience, show both my employer and the client that I am capable and know what I am doing.
On the other hand, I've worked with paper CNEs who couldn't even install a server or apply patches. I've worked with A+ people who couldn't format a disk in DOS. I think what it all boils down to here is that paper doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the hardcore hands on experience to back it up. And by the way, at the age of 30, I'm one exam away from CNE. I guess that shows where I feel the importance is.
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R. Bret Walker, CNA
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Certification is not the be all and end all for sure, however it certainly does have value and is worth working torward. Certification should reflect knowlege. If you know the stuff then the certification will be a joke because you know the material, not because it's worthless. We recently became IBM service authorized, they required me to be A+ certified so I sheduled the two tests, went in and wrote and crushed the test in 25 minutes total for the two. I already know the material, the certification is just the proof. experience+certification=qualified professional. You can be experienced and able, but where is your credibility? When a customer comes in to argue, what puts what you know above what he knows? If you are certified and know what you are doing then you have two feet to stand on. I personally don't worry about all the people who have their A+ or MCSE without anything but book learning, they will get in over their head faster than you can say windows and get fired.
Jesse Hamilton
MCP, A+ Certified
Service Technician
Software City
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ACE: Coding isn't the only thing that will get a great job in the next five years. Cisco Certification is. Anyone who reads this - I challenge you to read up on Cisco Certification and come back to me and tell me it's crap. Cisco rigorously certifies its people, and it is **EXTREMELY** hard to become certified. I guess that's why I am going to go get my Cisco Certification https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/09/1.gif
Oh, after becoming certified, you aren't a "paper tech". You are the real McCoy, so to speak.
Just my two ยข's
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to everyone that has debated this topic, good work. my bit of the tale. I am not A+ certified! I come from South Africa where it is just too darn expensive. I was not working in the computing industry before I came to Britain. I had, in my opinion, 'played' around a bit in South Africa with pc's. Came to Britain, thought, yeah, lets try get a job in computing. I was employed after a practical test at one of the major system builders here in London. 2 months later, workshop supervisor, a year down the line, R&D and Workshop manager. No, I still dont have any qualifications. Yes, majority of the people working for me have. Strange thing, I thought I didnt know jack when I first got the job. Now I know everyone else didnt know jack. And in my opinion, majority of people in the workshop/tech support do not deserve to call themselves technicians. I will at some stage get the A+ cert, only to prove a point for myself. My employers realise that the cert. isnt worth the paper it is printed on and I am grateful that they had faith enough in me to give me a job.
Moral of the story: I got lucky to get employed without the certification, but the people that really know the industry also know the certification is rubbish. When I employ new engineers, I do a hands on test, I do not want to look at the c.v. or the qualifications. And that is how I will continue to employ.
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personally i have no a+ or mcse, but i have 5 years experience in a technical department. i wish someone would make some sort of certification where u have to have experience, like for the exam have real world problems thrown at u and u have to solve them the proper way, not by a simple multiple choice.
several times, we have sold a simple sound card, asked the customer if they need advice on how to fit it, and be told that an a+ or mcse is going to do it for them. the next day they return the sound card saying that this "certified proffesional" told them that the sound card is faulty. everytime the card has been fine and the guy just didnt know how to install the drivers properly.
thanks
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I have been a technician for 5 years now. I hae owned and operated a computer service center for three. I hire based on experience and their ability to solve real work problems with hands on test. I keep two or three "messed up" pc's in the office at all times and test the potential employee on their speed and accuracy of diagnosis of the problem. It is a crude test, but it usually works. I have only had my A+ for six weeks, to become IBM certified.
A+ looks good to customers. But I firmly believe that a hands on test or training would be good.
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Wow, some of you guys are starting to scare me https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2000/04/1.gif Ya make me feel a bit underqualified and nervous hehe. I've been playing with computers for about ten years, but didn't really like the idea of professionaly coding because people made it sound like data entry. Because of that, I didn't take a career in computers seriously until a couple of years ago when I met my roommate (who is a sysadmin in a mixed NT/UNIX environment). He said that I seemed to know what I was doing, so if I went and got my MCSE, I'd land a job making $30-40k no problem with no experience and no degree... this sounded great to me (G.E.D./college droppout). I was well on my way to becoming a 'paper' MCSE (half way there) and got hired doing tech support for a software company at 30k... I've procrastinated at lot at finishing the MCSE (I guess I'm just a lazy person at heart <G>), but when I finish it, I get a hefty raise. I've also had a lot of companies and friends say that as soon as I get that piece of paper, I'd be hired in a heartbeat. I still plan on getting the certification because of this. I do agree however, that being a 'paper MCSE' is not too useful and will get you in over your head. Luckily, I now have a network to play with at home as well as a test environment at work - believe me, it took me quite a bit of tinkering to _REALLY_ get to the point where my exams said I was. The experience is what counts. Another note - I wouldn't have been hired based on my MCP if I hadn't passed the phone interview for my current job.
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Adam Ball
[email protected]
[email protected]
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A+ really isn't that bad. We only have A+ techs, but the first 3-6 months they are just doing leg work and writing things in, until they get there feet wet.
I have seen techs with no certs at all come in and configure a multi server array with several levels of hubs/switches, configure routhers, etc on a 1500 user network, and do it right. But that same tech I'd of payed 2x as much for if he was MCSE.
Same is true for a tech. Someone with A+ at least is scared into ESD protection. A HS kid may make $7-9 but A+ will get ya a buck or two raise.
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Jon Hutto
