Engineer - losing credibility?

My view of the term Engineer is a combination of a person's training and their specific job duties. I know a person that has their Electrical Engineering Degree and is a contractor for new apartments and subdivisions. What does he call himself? An "Electrician". Do I call myself an electrician? I work with electricity every day...little sparks of on/off and ones/zeros all over the place, don't I? No, I'm not. I'm an engineer. Granted, I don't have a Degree from a University stating such, but I went to school for Music Education and Performance. Am I a performer? A virtuoso?
Nope. My job is to teach. Microsoft, Macromedia, Adobe and so forth. What's my title? Technical Instructor. Were I performing job duties at which I was actually ENGINEERING, I could expect to be called such.

Network Engineers build, design and maintain networks, right? Systems Engineers have a large scope of responsibilities that fall along those same lines. Some areas of society have indeed cheapened the title, but don't think that that those titles lessen your certification.

My "favorite" mis-used title:
Nail Technician
how freaking technical are finger nails??

en·gi·neer (nj-nîr)
n. Abbr. e., E., eng., engr.

1. One who is trained or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering.
2. One who operates an engine.
3. One who skillfully or shrewdly manages an enterprise.
I really do not see what everyone has their panties in a bunch for. One should take the time to be sure of the meaning of a word before using it. As I see it you have 2 choices. You can accept the word as the dictionary implies or I guess you can have your own meaning. And I am sure that different dictionaries will give different meanings. This dictionary says nothing about a sheepskin or piece of paper needed in order to be considered an engineer. And if you have to have CERTS just to open your door then you are probably missing out on a hell of a lot of good talent. If my wife wants to consider herself a domestic engineer that is find with me as she has sure as hell earned the right. I tell customers that I will have to engineer a system to suit their needs, but I don't imply that I am an engineer. Some refer to me as an engineer but I just ignore it, much the same as someone telling me they are an engineer.

Here in Providence, home of the Thug Mayor - Buddy Cianci, we have engineers at the Water Authority down the street who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag and are basically thug plumbers who lay pipe at such a slow pace, a snail would be faster. These guys have no education except high school ( and even that I doubt) and call themselves engineers? I guess that makes me hydro flow repair engineer after I fixed a toilet this weekend.

en·gi·neer (nj-nîr)
n. Abbr. e., E., eng., engr.

1)One who is trained or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering.

2)One who operates an engine.

3) One who skillfully or shrewdly manages an enterprise.

The 3rd definition actually leaves the "engineer" open to some interpretation doesnt it? Certain designations are protected such as Doctor, but who would you consider to be a "Real" or "qualified" engineer?

I ain't no engineer--I'm a 'put the pieces together and make them all work right technician'--someone else already did the designing and manufacturing. (although some of those shouldn't be allowed...)

Intersting SmokeWolf, I've hired a couple people myself and the first thing that catches my eye is the experience, then the education, and lastly the certs. Putting value on the certs is what leads to people who can answer the hard question, but can't figure out the easy question. You can be CCIE'ed all you want, but if there is no practical experience . . . I would rather have someone who has spent 2-3years working in NetOps for some company than someone who spent $10k on a 6 month crash course.

As for the title on Engineer, I think it should be used in a promotional/hierarcal related way. For example in a normal business environment there are the analysts, associates, AVP, VP, Director, Managing Director then President, or something similar. When someone hands you a card that says Associate VP, you have some idea where someone stands in that company. There's no reason the Tech sector could not have a similar setup. Something like technician, administrator, engineer, senior engineer, Director, Managing Director and President. After you hit a certain level you no longer are involved with the technology, but with the business of running the technology groups, and thats why the last couple levels are the same as the business units.

When I go on service calls for warranty work the work order refers to me as a "Field Engineer". I'm just an A+ tech with a few months experiance.

To derekb who posted... "I think that computer engineers are not actually engineers, lets face it we don't really engineer anything." Let me tell you, I am currently enrolled in Penn State's computer engineering program, and we definitely DO engineer things, such as logical circuits for example. Computer engineering IS an actual field of engineering...though, it's really a mix of computer science and electrical engineering. I would never call someone who can 'fix a pc' a computer engineer. It's completely different, and a complete disgrace to the engineering community when someone refers to a technician as a computer engineer.

slightly off topic: I saw a job advertised for a 'bar support technician'. They wanted someone to collect glasses.

Engineers analyse , design + specify solutions.
Technicians impliment those solutions + make repairs when things fall over...

The guy who sold them a 486DX66 as a top of the range games platform was a bulls**t engineer. It certainly meets part 3 of the definitions.

Well, I have suffered through four years of college to attain a computer systems engineering degree. The stuff that most IT people do is just that: application of technology. They should be refered to as technicians, NOT engineers. Also, the stuff that most engineers do isn't IT work. It's VLSI design, embedded processors, or other such engineering or design tasks. There's a whole different level from technician to engineer.

The term "engineer" is overused and misused. My official job title is Network Technician but I'm commonly referred to as the "Network Guy". Makes ya proud I tell ya.

The engineer title is very abused. Legally you can't have the title of engineer, unless you've passed the proper certification and have a college degree(at least that's how it is here in California.) You can however use the term "engineering." For example, if you're part of an engineering group. I used to be part of the mechanical design team here at Texas Instruments, but since I don't have a degree, they wouldn't let me have the title. So instead, on the business card, I got "mechanical engineering" because that's the group I worked with. The term that should be used in most of these cases is "technician."

Technician=Someone who fixes technical problems with something an engineer designed, created, or built.

Engineer=Someone who builds, creates or designs something from the square one.

Ooops, I forgot to add a couple more things here. We should all remember, that it doesn't really matter what your title is anyway. What does matter is, a) do you like your job? and b) Are you making enough money. The only reason people have titles in a job place, is because it's a way for the finance dept. to specify their employment assets. But if you're the type of person who places great importance on what you're labeled at the company you work for, then maybe you should take steps to improving your education so that you can have the title that you desire. And one more thing, I think that 6mths-2yrs (i.e. MCSE vocational courses, A++, etc.), is not enough experience for anyone to be labeled "engineer" in the computer industry.

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Originally posted by Sowulo:
I ain't no engineer--I'm a 'put the pieces together and make them all work right technician'--someone else already did the designing and manufacturing. (although some of those shouldn't be allowed...)

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Well I have all the certs and 3 college degrees, But I learned more in the shop just as Sowulo said, I take them a part fix the problem and put them back together. Customers happy, I'm happy and the Bank is happy.