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I don't care at all if the eventual statue contains a statue of a search dog to commemorate their part in the rescue efforts. But as this statue was based on a real event, its wrong to change any feature of it from what the photograph showed.
Personnally, I believe a structure similar to a war wall should be constructed with the names of each of the victims inscribed. Statues of each service (firefighters, police, emts, etc.) should be placed around the structure (preferably a cube, or even a greatly reduced scale model of the original towerns) facing inwards. These statues should bear the names of those that died on their base. The face of each statue should be obscured to avoid any racial nonsense.
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[quote]Originally posted by Sowulo:
<strong>Altered history? Try reading a novel called "Killing Time" by Caleb Carr....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tell me more about this book...
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[quote]Originally posted by jaeger:
<strong>I don't care at all if the eventual statue contains a statue of a search dog to commemorate their part in the rescue efforts. But as this statue was based on a real event, its wrong to change any feature of it from what the photograph showed.
Personnally, I believe a structure similar to a war wall should be constructed with the names of each of the victims inscribed. Statues of each service (firefighters, police, emts, etc.) should be placed around the structure (preferably a cube, or even a greatly reduced scale model of the original towerns) facing inwards. These statues should bear the names of those that died on their base. The face of each statue should be obscured to avoid any racial nonsense.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately, we can't have this. There is a conspiracy theory that many more thousand people died than have been reported. The US is intentionally keeping the number "lower" so that the terrorists don't know exactly how many people they murdered.
Also, where's the love for the Pentagon? And the Penn. plane that crashed? It seems odd that these are frequently left out when mentioning 9/11.
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[quote]Originally posted by Capt. O:
<strong>
Unfortunately, we can't have this. There is a conspiracy theory that many more thousand people died than have been reported. The US is intentionally keeping the number "lower" so that the terrorists don't know exactly how many people they murdered.
Also, where's the love for the Pentagon? And the Penn. plane that crashed? It seems odd that these are frequently left out when mentioning 9/11.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean the deaths weren't on public record? There are families out there not be able to legitimately claim on their insurance because there is no death certificate??
:eek:
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I didn't say it was my theory.
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I didn't mean to imply that there shouldn't be cultural diversity in a memorial. I just don't think that it was correct to alter the image of the photograph (one that is now nationally recognizable) to be politically correct. Why does it need to be PC? Why does the photo need to be altered? I understand everyone's point of view that the alteration was intended to honor ALL the firefighters and policemen that were killed during the 9/11 tragedy. My point is why did they feel the need to alter the photo in the first place? Wouldn't it still have represented the event by leaving the original image intact? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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[quote]Originally posted by Capt. O:
<strong>Also, where's the love for the Pentagon? And the Penn. plane that crashed? It seems odd that these are frequently left out when mentioning 9/11.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is already a makeshift memorial in PA where that plane went down.
In the Pentagon, it would be hard to construct a memorial for public viewing, since its concidered military land and the general public may not be allowed there, but I do see your point.
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[quote]Originally posted by Lt. Cmdr Klarg:
<strong>Not to be picky, but the flag raising in question happened way after the towers had collapsed.
And who cares; why should race make a damn bit of difference when remembering the events of 9-11-2001? The human race lost many innocent people that day, and they should all be remembered, not just White, Black, Asian, etc.
my $0.02...for what it's worth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm well aware of the chronology thanks. I lived in NYC and I saw both towers go down, as well as the fireball from the second plane. I hang out with people who made it out alive from the Towers.
My point is simply that people are complaining about the historical accuracy of the memorial. I would be happy with something akin to the memorial for Oklahoma City. Why does there need to be a face associated with the memorial in the first place? Lots of people died that day, and they should be remembered. A model of the old towers with all the names of the dead inscribed, like the Vietman Memorial, would be perfect IMO.
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[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
<strong>
I'm well aware of the chronology thanks. I lived in NYC and I saw both towers go down, as well as the fireball from the second plane. I hang out with people who made it out alive from the Towers.
My point is simply that people are complaining about the historical accuracy of the memorial. I would be happy with something akin to the memorial for Oklahoma City. Why does there need to be a face associated with the memorial in the first place? Lots of people died that day, and they should be remembered. A model of the old towers with all the names of the dead inscribed, like the Vietman Memorial, would be perfect IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>
right on!
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[quote]Originally posted by Kymera:
[QB]
I'm well aware of the chronology thanks. I lived in NYC and I saw both towers go down, as well as the fireball from the second plane. I hang out with people who made it out alive from the Towers.
QB]<hr></blockquote>
Sorry to nitpick; no offense was intended. I can only imagine what it was like to see it in person as opposed to seeing it on CNN. It all seemed surreal to me at the time.
I think making the memorial with the firefighters depicted was intended to imitate the WW2 memorial with the flag raising on Iwo Jima(?), since the photographs of the two events were so similar. But, with our PC environment of today, it has become a controversy.
I am in total agreement with your proposed memorial! :) I think they intended to use a piece of the wreckage to include into a memorial as well.
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The statue is a piece of art that is only there to represent what the artist wanted to display.
The memorial is an artistic display that pays homage to what has happened while allowing us to remember.
The said picture is a fact of what really happened.
So what if the artist took some liberty in his sculpture? Does the image only make you mad about showing other races in our big melting pot of America? Does it no longer make you remember what happened that day just because you are upset at some utopian agenda to have multiculturalism everywhere while the left has to make a monster arguement about it? Or can you look beyond the fact that the artist changed some faces and see the strength of the flag, the honor of the men, and the fact that American's will not tolerate people hurting our own?
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[quote]Originally posted by cleetus:
<strong>The statue is a piece of art that is only there to represent what the artist wanted to display.
The memorial is an artistic display that pays homage to what has happened while allowing us to remember.
The said picture is a fact of what really happened.
So what if the artist took some liberty in his sculpture? Does the image only make you mad about showing other races in our big melting pot of America? Does it no longer make you remember what happened that day just because you are upset at some utopian agenda to have multiculturalism everywhere while the left has to make a monster arguement about it? Or can you look beyond the fact that the artist changed some faces and see the strength of the flag, the honor of the men, and the fact that American's will not tolerate people hurting our own?</strong><hr></blockquote>
right on . . . again!
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If race is an issue whey don't they put an Arab guy tugging on the flag trying to pull it down?
Monuments are just another part of history. History is just a combination of how things really happened and how we like to remember them.
So, we erect a statue to commemorate the event to illicit feelings of pride and people focus on that and not on the image of peoples dead mangled bodies or the grief of families or the feeling of lost security etc...
I don't like political correctness but there were plenty of black (and italian, hispanic, etc..) firefighters at the scene so why not spread around the glory. They deserve it. We're not really commemorating the raising of a single flag, we're commemorating the reaction of people to a tragic event (and shifting focus away from the tragedy).
The statue also serves society by teaching future generations what it is to be "good" in society by eliciting feelings of pride (pride as a reward for coming to the aid of your fellow man (or woman)) as future onlookers identify with the people in the statue.
The people creating the statue know this, as they know many things, and they will create a statue that a variety of people can identify with and not a statue that some race will look at and say "why isn't my race up there?".
These kinds of things are all around us but most of the time we don't see through them. I'm not going to comment on whether they're good or bad but I lean toward the idea that they're necessary given our frail egos. This necessity is proven most evident in the madness of some drug users as they begin to see through this shell of reality and can be articulated best by Colonel Kurtz's comment from Appocolypse Now, "I hate nothing more than the stench of lies."
Man, I love iced coffee. :D
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When a memorial is constructed, you do it to how it was -- not what you wish it was or to make people feel better. You do it to remember.
Granted, I think a wall would be more fitting for this event, but if a statue of any kind is made, it should made correctly, period. If it was 3 black guys rising the flag, then thats what the statue should be. If it was 3 mexican guys rising it, then depict it as such, but don't go distorting what happened at that moment. I don't care how you look at it, I don't care what the 'political correct' way is, its not true, so don't go changing reality.
And further more, I could care less about what race the people were that raised it, they were american firefighters, raising a flag after an unspeakable event. That's how I'll remember it, not as '3 white guys' raising a flag.
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[quote]Originally posted by Capt. O:
<strong>
Tell me more about this book...</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.bookreporter.com/brc/0679463321.html" target="_blank">http://www.bookreporter.com/brc/0679463321.html</a>
