Pop Quiz!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by ilovetheusers
You know, I just don't see why. It looks like everyone here is in agreement that religion, when taken to an extreme causes a lot of bloodshed and death. Given a reasonable person I'm sure that you have lots more good stories about religion helping people for every bad one where it hurts.

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Because in these times(God I hate that saying) it is so much easier for people to close things down, to ignore them, to push them to the side, make excuses. Nobody wants to take blame, nobody wants to stand up for anything(look at what has become of the Democrats), it is so much easier than getting out there and standing up for what you believe in. And if you don't like what you here, then we better close this down cause it sounds rather derogatory(sp).

Then we get this whole Homeland Security thing. We have the organizations, we have the laws, we have our own citizens and a constitution that is suppossed to protect us through the Bill OF Rights. But because nobody will buck up and speak straight any more, so we get more of this crap(and it is coming from the Republicans, who I thought wanted to keep the govenrment small and my taxes less).

Then we get some freako sicko extemist who kills 5000 people by flying some planes into a building. We know that the majoirty of the attacks against the US since the fall of communism has been for Muslim Extremists. No more, no less, but we still won't go look at them.

We have gotten so involved in "Impowering" everyone, and making sure about every stinking equality, we have forgotten how to live as a whole.

I am going now.

This has nothing to do with my wanting to close things out, heck keep the thread open I don't care, I was just trying to prevent flaming.

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Originally posted by Cleetus
Because in these times(God I hate that saying) it is so much easier for people to close things down, to ignore them, to push them to the side, make excuses. Nobody wants to take blame, nobody wants to stand up for anything(look at what has become of the Democrats), it is so much easier than getting out there and standing up for what you believe in. And if you don't like what you here, then we better close this down cause it sounds rather derogatory(sp).

Then we get this whole Homeland Security thing. We have the organizations, we have the laws, we have our own citizens and a constitution that is suppossed to protect us through the Bill OF Rights. But because nobody will buck up and speak straight any more, so we get more of this crap(and it is coming from the Republicans, who I thought wanted to keep the govenrment small and my taxes less).

Then we get some freako sicko extemist who kills 5000 people by flying some planes into a building. We know that the majoirty of the attacks against the US since the fall of communism has been for Muslim Extremists. No more, no less, but we still won't go look at them.

We have gotten so involved in "Impowering" everyone, and making sure about every stinking equality, we have forgotten how to live as a whole.

I am going now.

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Hit the nail on the head there.

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Originally posted by DiR[ëctory]
This has nothing to do with my wanting to close things out, heck keep the thread open I don't care, I was just trying to prevent flaming.

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I think everyone understands that. No finger pointed toward you with any comments besided my first about keeping it open.

Most of us up here can get along just fine now or so it seems. oddly enough without a lot of moderation the fights and other BS seem to have stopped (not to point that finger in any particular direction or blame anyone). It seems to me as of late that arguments have popped up and even though several of us have argued a great deal that no one is running to mommy or getting all that upset. Heck, the gun post had me, kato, silencio and confused (and others) going at it for a while but I never lost any respect for them and never did feel that anyone got angry with me either (though I could be wrong).

Hey Noo.
Thats a really cool work. I'm going to keep that somewhere.

The last verse is really cool.

Matt

We know that the majoirty of the attacks against the US since the fall of communism has been for Muslim Extremists. (Cleetus)

So why do they attack us? Have you researched it from both sides? They are human beings too with intellect. The phrase “they are just some freako cicko” are always an easy escape or blame to why they do what they do. Have you read any of their articles on their side beside our so-called, “fair and balanced BullSh** FOX NEWS”? It’s all about money. You know how many Muslim holocausts are accruing right now? But it doesn’t matter, they aren’t white or aristocrats, let them all die right?

Do you trust your politicians? When damn voting comes around, we hear phrases such as “well, it’s time to vote for the lesser of two evils.” So if you don’t trust your politicians, why do you expect foreigners to trust them? Politicians represent us when they travel to other countries. It’s all about money with our politicians. What does money do to people?

Yeah, Muslims are the only ones crazy enough to fight back. 1st world countries straight rapes 3rd world countries. I mean they tear patches out their as*****. They do it to South America, Asia, Africa and Middle East. In this case, you have some who are willing to give their life to fight back.

If America didn’t fight back against the British in the American Revolution, we would not be the superpower today, but still getting raped. Patrick Henry said, “Give me liberty or give me death”. Now to the British, he was a straight out terrorist. Damn Americans, kill them all right? “We need the resources.”

With these Muslims, they got guts to bring the war straight to the aristocrats who thought they were safe, away from the cruelties of real life, but enjoying the fruits of other sufferings.


I agree Ilovetheusers, as long as we are adults about this, the thread can be open for great conversation. We must refrain from attacking each other, but attack the argument. Don’t attack someone’s character if you cant attack the argument.

When I say attack, I don’t mean as if we are enemies, simply a counter-argument.

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Originally posted by PacMan
We know that the majoirty of the attacks against the US since the fall of communism has been for Muslim Extremists. (Cleetus)

So why do they attack us? Have you researched it from both sides? They are human beings too with intellect.

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What intellect??? Those rotten bastards that flew the planes into the trade buildings, pentagon, and into the ground all lived here in the US for several years. They were treated just like anyone else here. They were given an education because we trusted them. These same rotten bastards went to strip joints, and nightclubs and had a good time, just like Americans. Where was their intellect when the orders came down for the mission? They certainly didn't fear for their lives, they went in and did what they were told, like mindless bastards. They couldn’t even follow their faith correctly, I am certain that strip clubs were not required for the mission, and are certainly not on the agenda for their worship!

In Afghanistan, most of the people there can't read, don’t own a TV, or have a formal education. They only know what their manipulative leaders tell them is true. If I really wanted to know what we have done over there, I am sure I can find out a lot more than was on CNN over the past 20 years, but those people don’t even have that. How can they make an educated assessment on how aristocrats (as you put it) in America caused all of their suffering? They can’t. They can’t--THEY CAN’T!!!

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Originally posted by PacMan
We know that the majoirty of the attacks against the US since the fall of communism has been for Muslim Extremists. (Cleetus)

So why do they attack us? Have you researched it from both sides? They are human beings too with intellect. The phrase “they are just some freako cicko” are always an easy escape or blame to why they do what they do. Have you read any of their articles on their side beside our so-called, “fair and balanced BullSh** FOX NEWS”? It’s all about money. You know how many Muslim holocausts are accruing right now? But it doesn’t matter, they aren’t white or aristocrats, let them all die right?

Do you trust your politicians? When damn voting comes around, we hear phrases such as “well, it’s time to vote for the lesser of two evils.” So if you don’t trust your politicians, why do you expect foreigners to trust them? Politicians represent us when they travel to other countries. It’s all about money with our politicians. What does money do to people?

Yeah, Muslims are the only ones crazy enough to fight back. 1st world countries straight rapes 3rd world countries. I mean they tear patches out their as*****. They do it to South America, Asia, Africa and Middle East. In this case, you have some who are willing to give their life to fight back.

If America didn’t fight back against the British in the American Revolution, we would not be the superpower today, but still getting raped. Patrick Henry said, “Give me liberty or give me death”. Now to the British, he was a straight out terrorist. Damn Americans, kill them all right? “We need the resources.”

With these Muslims, they got guts to bring the war straight to the aristocrats who thought they were safe, away from the cruelties of real life, but enjoying the fruits of other sufferings.


I agree Ilovetheusers, as long as we are adults about this, the thread can be open for great conversation. We must refrain from attacking each other, but attack the argument. Don’t attack someone’s character if you cant attack the argument.

When I say attack, I don’t mean as if we are enemies, simply a counter-argument.

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It's hard for some to dispassionate about their views.

Now, you seem to have an interesting take on this row that is going on between the muslim extremeists and the western nations. I take it you are sort of equating them with the revolutionaries back in the day. Kind of like a terrorist is only a terrorist depending upon what viewpoint you have or where you live.


I thought about that before but can't really totally agree with it. Whereas the americans fought for individual freedom, al-queda (sic?) is fighting us because we support Israel. I feel that theirs is a racist war of hate.

Take for instance Afghanistan. The country was under the rule of the taliban who harbored many al-queda menbers and welcomed them. If this is what the terrorists are fighting for I can see how we can compare them to ourselves.

Now if it was the average citizen of the middle east taking up arms against us because we had stolen their land or resources I'd understand. But, that's not really the case. We send billions of $$$ to that region for it's oil and the leaders of the countries and the rich take the $$$ for themselves and leave the populace out in the cold. Now I know we take a large percentage of the $$$ back here but there is still a ton of $$$ flooding to the middle east.

Sorry, I just don't see the comparison.

IMHO it's not the muslim or the Catholics/christians that is the problem. What it really boils down to is EXTREMISTS. There is always some nut out there that thinks by killing people he can make a statement. The guys at the top really don't give a crap if you blow up there people... They can always get more. Violence of the nature we are talking about doesn't solve anything, it fact it usually just makes things worse. If the extremists can get the other side to categorize them as some faith or some type of people then the hate grows. If they push the hate far enough the other side hates anyone that resembles the extremists. Now the people who resemble the extremists may not support them but may end up on their side because the other sides attacks indiscrimanately. That's how you get a race war ( or riots for that matter ). If the us was to decide to destroy all muslims because some radicals were causing problems of course most muslims would fight america! Down with extremists.

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Originally posted by ilovetheusers
Now if it was the average citizen of the middle east taking up arms against us because we had stolen their land or resources I'd understand. But, that's not really the case. We send billions of $$$ to that region for it's oil and the leaders of the countries and the rich take the $$$ for themselves and leave the populace out in the cold.

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Exactly what I wanted to say, I just forgot to say it...it is the billionaires there that have taken arms up against us. Then they use their uneducated population as chess pieces!

WE never claimed Jihad. We never called anything(here in the US) a holy war. We didn't proclaim for another entire group of people to be eradicated in the name of religion. Then twist the religion in a way for a certain few to profit. AS A NATION.

Now we have our Jonestown, and we have the Branch Dividians. Personally, I think they got what was coming to them, but that is a completely different story to be told at a different time.

They are humans, yes, they are real people with intellicts yes. But my anger, my passion is aimed towards the extemists, and their leader inparticular. Those that teach their people to hate all that are not like them, those that teach their people to die in a suicidal act to strike terror into the foe. Those that will not get up to the battle field. Can you really relate Bin Laden or Hussein to the likes of Jefferson, Hamilton, Washington or the many others that gave up everything in the US revolution? Ours was based on freedom and equality of all mankind, theirs is based on the irradication of those not similar.

THAT IS WHAT I AM BASING ON. It is so easy to say that the revolutionaries are the ones that win, while the terrorists are the ones that lose, but really, that is a broad generalization that loses touch with reality(in my opinion). Yes, the empires of the middle east reigned longer and stronger than many many others, all the way until the end of WWI. But does that make them any better?

Times and the world has changed, yet I do know that they still hold to that once proud past. They hold their pride, and that pride has been left behind. As much as people hate it, the world is getting smaller and more united. If we are to progress as a species, as a civilization as a whole, then there will be bumps in that road. It is inevitable, mistakes will be made, atrocities will happen. Am I right or am I wrong, I do not know, but I am an American, they did attack us, and as a whole we are going to seek retribution. And as sick and as callous as it might sound, the strongest will be left standing when the dust settles. I know, I pray, I am on that side.

This message of course is only the opinion of the author and not directed in anger or hate to anyone individual or organization. Management is not responsible for the impregnation of your daughters.

Pacman,

i have read your posts several times and it seems to me that your are defending the terrorist attacks on our civialian population. i have tried looking at things from thier perspective and i know they have a serious beef with the US and a lot of them are extremists that will fight. we're not a perfect country, we're as bad if not worse than alot of others out there, but thats no excuse. they killed thousands of people whose only crime was being born in the US. I doubt even a quarter of those people knew of Al Queada(sp?) or the Taliban. you made the comparision of the US killing the British in the Revolution and yes we did and we probably were looked at as terrorists, but we killed British Soldiers. we didn't go into England and kill thousands of civialians because we were upset about trade tariffs or tea taxes. maybe i took your posts out of context or i misunderstood them, i really hope i misunderstood them

Wow, great conversation!! But a conversation in which I walk a thin ice on :) .

Truly, the ones who have the $$$ are really influenced by some type of wickedness (greed?).


Ok, the original topic was based on fueling the fire of hate towards a particular group.
This fire burns in most who live in the states.
6,000 reported Afghan civilians died in our “retribution” in which we still don’t have solid proof in (yes, I know, all of you disagree with me in the proof). All the details’ concerning the proof is another long topic, so for now, let’s just stand by our individual judgments (only god can judge; if you have scientific proof to his/her/it’s existence and are convinced of God’s continuation).

Ok, so say you are the “emperor/leader/etc.” of America and you call all the shots. Now let’s think this in a hypothetical sense. What would your next action be to resolve this “terrorist” issue?
What is your course of action to alleviate the anguish? What do we do as a country to somewhat satisfy all side to the point where terrorist attack will no longer be an anxiety in our lives?

It seems most of you here think you know how they (terrorist) think or don’t think at all and so on, so how do we counter-attack this problem? I say you know how they think based on your personal evaluation of the terrorist from your sources (CNN News…). I say this on remarks such as:

al-queda (sic?) is fighting us because we support Israel. I feel that theirs is a racist war of hate.

If they push the hate far enough the other side hates anyone that resembles the extremists. Now the people who resemble the extremists may not support them but may end up on their side because the other sides attacks indiscrimanately. That's how you get a race war ( or riots for that matter ). If the us was to decide to destroy all muslims because some radicals were causing problems of course most muslims would fight america! Down with extremists.

it is the billionaires there that have taken arms up against us. Then they use their uneducated population as chess pieces!

WE never claimed Jihad. We never called anything(here in the US) a holy war. We didn't proclaim for another entire group of people to be eradicated in the name of religion. Then twist the religion in a way for a certain few to profit. AS A NATION.

Those that teach their people to hate all that are not like them, those that teach their people to die in a suicidal act to strike terror into the foe. Those that will not get up to the battle field.

Violence of the nature we are talking about doesn't solve anything, it fact it usually just makes things worse.
If we are to progress as a species, as a civilization as a whole, then there will be bumps in that road.
So my expert :p friends, how do we resolve this issue to progress as a species with a smooth ride as possible?
Any suggestions?

Now if it was the average citizen of the middle east taking up arms against us because we had stolen their land or resources I'd understand.
Our politicians have been stealing their land or resources… us the US, and in many other places. Not only the US. Afghanistan is now a new state politically, just like Puerto Rico is. But I understand what your trying to say. :)

Ours was based on freedom and equality of all mankind, theirs is based on the irradication of those not similar.
Freedom and equality of al mankind? Are you sure? Then why did we have the Martin Luther King and Malcolm X all the way down to the 20th century? Did you mean to say mankind or humanity because if humanity, the argument of women’s rights come into play as well. If mankind, then just the men is a valid argument, so it seems. On a lighter note, Star Trek did the same thing where they first said, “where no man has gone before” in the old one and in the new one they said, “Where no one has gone before”. Back to the argument, you make the comment eradication of those not similar. One question is, do you think this is the sole reason or a reason you think should be well pointed out? You mean this statement in a religious content I presume cause they aren’t killing others based on color or other physical attributes, are they? Ok, so if it is in religious content, let me say they are not the only one. If your not a Christian, you’ll go to hell. But obviously, Christians are not acting this out (with exceptions to kkk, Timothy’s friends etc.). So again, how did you come to this statement (and I’m sure many other agree with you) of the statement of eradication of those not similar? Just want to know why you think that this is the reason why the terrorist do what they do. “it’s all over the news?” The news is the almighty truth? Has a Muslim or a terrorist (any faith) told you his/her philosophy on those not similar to him/her?

Yes, the empires of the middle east reigned longer and stronger than many many others, all the way until the end of WWI. But does that make them any better?
My apologies. My intention wasn’t to prove that they were better(scientifically they were better at the time), but to point out that this pop quiz on fueling the flame towards this group of people, a people from whom we have achievements in science today. Never meant to say that they were better as a person, just defending (or trying to) the minority of this country.

i have read your posts several times and it seems to me that your are defending the terrorist attacks on our civialian population.
they killed thousands of people whose only crime was being born in the US.

you made the comparision of the US killing the British in the Revolution and yes we did and we probably were looked at as terrorists, but we killed British Soldiers. we didn't go into England and kill thousands of civialians because we were upset about trade tariffs or tea taxes.

Buddy, thanks for helping me in many of my earlier post (PC related). I remember you helped me with many computer questions before. I hope I don’t offend you by counter-arguing with you, but if I do, then don’t read further. I rather say what I have to than live in silent, even if what I say is not popular to the majority.

No, I am not defending any types of attack on civilians of any country, weather it be the poorest or the riches. I read this post and the answers seemed at least to me as if they were promoting more aggression towards young Muslims. Yeah, people can say that “nah, we hating the terrorist, not Muslims.” But we can say it, most people just hate Muslims period. This country has an extensive history on hating people who are deferent from the majority. Especially if this minority has the guts to fight back. I am not defending the terrorist of any organization, religion or ethnicity. I feel I am trying to defend minority human rights. This forum’s sole purpose was/is to promote more aggressive mind-set against Muslims. I just don’t think we as a species can progress as a whole, in a civilized society as our friend put it.

they killed thousands of people whose only crime was being born in the US.
Heres one argument “they” have against Americans. Taxpayers fund the suppression and occupation of many of their home countries such as Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Palestine, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Sierra Leone, Sudan etc. Now the latest news is Usama and his tape about him threatening to bomb US if we attack Iraq.

My answer is, we should get the hell out of all other countries and leave them alone. But we won’t cause we have many interests in other counties which are resulting in particular groups hating us. I say just leave them all alone and spend our money on us. You have the argument that then sadam will have nukes and so on. Man, if we don’t bother his ***, he won’t bother us. Besides, if he does go into a world domination phase, we will be way more advanced in weaponry that he wouldn’t dare. If we spend our money on our research, we can offer humanity things unimaginable. Juts quit getting into other people’s business. You see a husband and wife arguing, leave them the hell alone. They go through that at least once a month. Stay out of other people’s business.

Here how I see it. We got our rich guys (politicians) who wanna get into their business solely for profit and keeping an eye on the chessboard and in the process, pissing some people off. Just leave em alone and worry about problems at home. We would advance in science so far and there would be not on bum on the streets. Yeah, we can have a world economy with those who want to trade, but don’t get into their business. If they don’t want anything to do with us, then leave them alone. Respect them as human beings and do business with ones who want to. Don’t be so damn judgmental. Everyone has their own cultures, respect it and move on. Just don’t get in their business.

Final answer, Mind your own business unless they wanna talk. That’s how we progress as a species, as a civilization as a whole, with few bumps in that road.

I'll back you up Pacman.

I don't support the terrorist's actions at all, but I can understand their hatred for Americans. We are one of the most arrogant societies on this earth. We continually but our nose into other people's business (as long as there is some type of profit for us), we have no regard for anything but money, we tell everyone else how they should live and what they should believe. It wasn't very long ago that we had separate bathrooms/drinking fountains/buses for whites and blacks. We pretty much stole this land from the Native Americans for a handful of beads and killed those that fought back.

We're worried about Saddam having nuclear weapons? Who was it again that invented nuclear weapons? Who is it again that is the only country to have used the nuclear bomb on another country?

After the Desert Storm War, if you call that a war, it was very apparent that no third world country could stand up to us in battle. We absolutely annihilated them with very very few casualties on our side, so why on earth would they try to stand toe to toe with us in battle? Our technology makes it almost impossible for them to fight us.

We live in a country where tobacco companies knowingly sold a product that addicts and kills slowly, then they hid that fact for many years. Drunk driving kills thousands of people every year, yet very little is done to stop it and alcohol drinking is very widely promoted. Why? Money money money money!!!

Our country has a long-standing legacy of greed and of doing very bad things in the name of greed. Ask the Native Americans if we are a bunch of greedy b*stards. Ask the enslaved African Americans who up until 50 years ago couldn't vote or use the same bathrooms as white people if we are greedy b*stards.

I don't support the terrorists or their actions, but I certainly understand their hatred for us, and I honestly can't say I blame them. I hate our government too. It's exactly the opposite of what our founding father's intended. Corruption is the norm rather than the exception. An honest politician cannot expect to succeed. If they don't take bribes, what good are they to the people with loads of money?

While I'm good and pissed, how bout those d*mn catholics? How is it that all these child molesting priests get away with that crap? How is it that after all the public hoopla, they come up with a policy saying that any priest with 'more than one molestation' will be kicked out of the priesthood? So if they only do it once it's okay? Why did all that press coverage suddenly disappear? Could it be because the catholic church is one of the wealthiest groups in the world?

I don't believe in organized religion, I see it as a form of population control. I live by one simple rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If everyone did that, the world would be a much better place.

I had a point when I started typing this reply, hopefully I got it in there somewhere. :)

It's not who you are, it's who you know.

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Originally posted by Cleetus
So then can we put a 5 day waiting period on Holy Wars, ban automatic prayers, or have all of our Bishops licensed with the state!!!

Hehehe, I can see the next big topic now "Are religious control laws gone to far?"

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Cleetus, that is simultaneously one of the most intelligent and most hilarious things I have seen written at this website. Thanks. You just made my day.

http://www.plaudersmilies.de/happy/roflmao.gif