Is Bush going to delay the election day because of his fears?

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Is it possible right now that everything is STILL GOING EXACTLY ACCORDING TO PLAN for Osama Bin Laden?

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Well except for the fricking sharks with fricking laser beams on their heads, there's no shark pool in his cave y'see, so he's had to use camels with rocket launchers on their humps.

Erm, getting swiftly back on point. I thought this news had since been denied by the Administration? Although, if an election postponement is being mulled over, I find it interesting that elections are to be held in Iraq as soon as possible even though insurgents/terrorists are bombing the sh!t out of the place. Is it "Democracy Whatever the Cost" in Iraq, while the democratic process is eroded in the US?

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Originally Posted by Wayward Clam

Dude, you're completely diverging from my point. I was trying to enumerate and analyze the results of the TERRORISTS' actions... NOT the Americans' responses. Everything is connected. Bin Laden may be insane, but he isn't stupid, or he could never have arranged a serious threat in the first place.

So he must have had SOME idea of what the fallout to his actions would be.

Therefore, if you list and analyze what the fallout WAS, you can get some idea what his TRUE goals were.

If you know what his TRUE goal is, it is much easier to defeat him.

What does Bin Laden want? To bring down the US government entirely? It's not a realistic goal, unless he has more moves in his strategy that we haven't seen yet.

He has accomplished some other things along those lines though:

-Much more, and much more violent, internal dissension in the United States
-Less democracy, free speech, and civil rights in the United States
-Political wedges driven between the United States and many former strong allies
-Political disruption in Great Britain
-More hatred for America in the Middle East

It's too hard to list all of the repercussions of 9/11 and the American response to it... but just looking at some of them provides interesting information IMNSHO.

Is it possible that the news we see every day was more or less planned by Bin Laden? That he expected the Western world to be divided over war, and to spend half a trillion bucks stomping on Iraq because Al Qaeda couldn't be found?

Is it possible right now that everything is STILL GOING EXACTLY ACCORDING TO PLAN for Osama Bin Laden?

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Ah, you're right. I re-read it.
My points still stand, and in fact generally support yours.

And as for you Titchski-really cute. Actually posting a reply on thread. :)

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Originally Posted by techs

Ah, you're right. I re-read it.
My points still stand, and in fact generally support yours.

And as for you Titchski-really cute. Actually posting a reply on thread. :)

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Are you trying to say I'm not taking this politicos forum seriously? If so I take complete offense at that, after all I'm the one who's trying to inspire Webby to dance with Miss Piggy. I don't see YOU doing anything except posting political threads that just clutter the place up, can't you try and get Kermit to do an interview with RRR or something? :mad:

So how would you explain Mongol warfare, Hun warfare, Goth warfare of pure terror? How the Vikings were so feared through terror? Or maybe this?

Don't know about all the different terms of revolution, freedom fighter, guerilla???

Yeah, terror and fear used by a smaller group to get across their point, agenda, whatever to a larger group very modern indeed.

Oh Cleetus, here we go again with you disagreeing with my slant on history no matter what you say to begin with. It is as if you feel insecure in your knowledge. https://forums.windrivers.com/images.../2005/03/1.gif
You said back on page one:

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Originally Posted by cleete

So the terrorists are winning the war?

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I responded to that quote and now you want to talk semantics?
This type of warfare is known as fourth generation warfare and it is a recent development. The examples you cite were full out frontal assaults by armed men: first gen warfare. You only cite terror as fear. Well fear is a result of terror. Even your own link talks about the changing meaning of terrorism. Using your example of guerrilla warfare was good though, as that is fourth gen warfare.
So, the heck with semantics, I am talking about a new form of warfare whatever you choose to name it.

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...what some call fourth-generation warfare. This primarily involves land forces (although targets can be naval vessels and air assets) — irregular or guerilla warfare carried out by groups motivated by ideology, revenge, lust for power, ethnicity, religion or some other unifying bond. Such irregulars often are associated with or supported by regular military forces, but in the late 20th century this was less often the case. In fact there are countervailing trends. There are more small groups or very loosely knit organizations which employ terror by threatening to or actually attacking civilian populations and infrastructure — the so-called asymmetric style of warfare. Some receive support, safe harbor, or encouragement from nations while others seem to operate with little support.

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By the way there is a real good book out which contains a perspective on war you may like:
"The History of Warfare"
You may like it, although it is highly opinionated. But hey, aren't all historians? ;-)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...78443?v=glance

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Originally Posted by Cleetus

So the terrorist are still winning the "war" then, I see

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Yes, they are. We need to totally change our tactics.

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Originally Posted by TripleRLtd

By the way there is a real good book out which contains a perspective on war you may like:
"The History of Warfare"
You may like it, although it is highly opinionated. But hey, aren't all historians? ;-)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...78443?v=glance

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John Keegan, read it, thank you very much

Don't agree with this reasoning at all, terror, fear, attacking the populace, small groups against might of empires, long standing theme if you look for it in more then just the simple name of "terrorism"

Nah, it is a univerasal theme, we are not going to irradicate it as it has existed for as long as there have been more powerful nations

Oh yeah, by the way, the quote was sarcasm, as I don't even believe we are at "war" on "terrorism"

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Originally Posted by Cleetus

Oh yeah, by the way, the quote was sarcasm, as I don't even believe we are at "war" on "terrorism"

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We are not? Enlighten me, would you? Why not?
And I don't mean the fear element: that has truly changed the way we live:
see "The Patriot Act".
BTW, you have cited that many times here!!
YOU don't want to live in fear, and you don't agree with the steps that the government has taken. The alerts and whatnot. So, they, in their way, HAVE succeeded, in a way, right? You are one who has noticed, right? Now you choose to say we are NOT at war??? Come on now cleete: make up your freaking mind!!!

PS
Clam:
yeah, I agree, It IS possible things are going according to the plan of the "so_called" """Terrorists""""

Terrorism no, the elements who hate us yes

Might be symantecs to you, but a world of difference to me. Those who attacked us must be eradicated. But a blanket all out free reign war on "terrorism" is a losing battle. We can in no way be in all places to stop all terrorism all over the world. Unless though, we took over the world and ruled it with an iron fist.